Debate Alternative, or Misunderstood Medicine?

[Sue]

"Just because people take them and believe they are helpful and healthy, that doesn't mean they are". The pacebo affect could come into play? who are we to determine the power of the mind in healing? and there are scientific evidence of low vitamin labs where vitamins help to restore those values to normal? i.e. I had low vitamin D.. 3 months after taking vitamin D my levels increased.. is that not proof that vitamins "alternative" meds can have an effect on scientific lab results? i dunno.. but it obviously worked for me.

Some are even harmful - if you're not malnourished - because they build up in the body. "vitamins have been so exaggerated in media to be "harmful" if taken in excess.. i've taken a multi vitamin every day for "decades" and there has been no proof that i was lacking in anything other than vitamin D and B and i've never suffered any overdosage of anything? where is the proof of that? i'm not malnorished in vitamins A, E, K.. etc.. but i get "extra" in a multivitamin and i've never been in "danger" from any of them. maybe if i "mega dose" in certain vitamins than yes.. it could be harmful.. I don't think a daily multivitamin is dangerous in any way "based on my life experience" it hasn't caused any overdose of any vitamin.. I don't think people are ignorant for taking a daily multi vitamin even if it hasn't been scientifically proven to be effective. in my case it WAS scientifically proven to be effective because taking extra vitamin D increased my vitamin D levels on a scientifical blood test...

 

[Harte]

Vitamin toxicity:
Vitamin A

Hypervitaminosis A refers to any number of a large amount of toxic effects from ingesting too much preformed Vitamin A. Symptoms may result from effects including, but not limited to, altered bone metabolism and altered metabolism of other fat-soluble vitamins. Hypervitaminosis A is believed to have occurred in early humans and the problem persists up until the current day.
Toxicity may result from ingesting too much preformed Vitamin A from the diet, supplement intake or prescription medication and can be prevented by not ingesting more than guideline amounts.

Vitamin B

Vitamin B group is water-soluble and is considered to be a low toxicity compound due to a rapid excretion through urine. However, some toxicity can occur and cause an array of conditions that usually resolve with discontinuation of vitamin B intake. Vitamin B group is also a potential hazard to liver health since it is stored in the liver. The modern tendencies found in many vitamin B supplements can eventually disrupt many body function mechanisms if taken on a long term. Unless an individual is low in specific vitamin B compounds and confirmed via blood tests, it is strongly suggested to intake all vitamin Bs from foods and not from supplements.

Vitamin C - not much of a problem here

Vitamin D

The main consequence of vitamin D toxicity is a buildup of calcium in your blood (hypercalcemia), which can cause symptoms such as poor appetite, nausea and vomiting. Weakness, frequent urination and kidney problems also may occur. Treatment includes the stopping of excessive vitamin D intake. Your doctor may also prescribe intravenous fluids and medications, such as corticosteroids or bisphosphonates.

Vitamin E

The dose of vitamin E contained in off-the-shelf supplements can increase your risk of dying, if taken daily, researchers have found.
SNIP
Vitamin E doses used in the trials ranged from just 16.5 IU up to 2,000 IU, which is double the limit that US dietary guidelines regard as tolerable. On pooling the results, the researchers found that daily doses of 150 IU or less had no adverse effects, and might even offer health benefits. Risk of death started to increase above this level, and became significant at 400 IU and higher.

Note that Walgreen's (the first return from my google search for "vitamin E supplements") is selling it regularly at 1000 IU. I didn't even have to search under "high dosage" to find that.

And, yes, intake of vitamins will (obviously) increase their concentration in your blood.

Do you believe that is a good thing? Did you take vitamin D because you knew you had a deficiency (as I said, "malnourished")?

Harte

 

[titorite]

Most people lack proper vitamins from their food intake in this modern age of industrialized food.

All the chicken harvested in food production facilities in the USA get bleached. Thats right, Chic fillet, Mc Donndalds, Tyson, all bleached marinaded. And that will destroy some of the vitamins you would normally get out of it.

Frozen greens, canned tomatoes, cooked veggies all lack in vitamins.

In this modern age we lack proper nutritional intake.

Thats what enable things like 5 hour energy drink to be so popular. All it is , is a shot of B vitamins.

 

[Harte]

Most people lack proper vitamins from their food intake in this modern age of industrialized food.

All the chicken harvested in food production facilities in the USA get bleached. Thats right, Chic fillet, Mc Donndalds, Tyson, all bleached marinaded. And that will destroy some of the vitamins you would normally get out of it.

Actually, it won't.

Frozen greens, canned tomatoes, cooked veggies all lack in vitamins.

Not only is this not true, you have it exactly backwards.

Frozen and canned vegetables are often processed shortly after they are picked, so that nutrient losses would not occur during shipping, on the grocer's shelf, or in your home. Frozen vegetables actually retain a high proportion of their original nutrients. Sometimes, though, they are blanched (dipped in hot water), which preserves color and texture, but may compromise some vitamins. In order to avoid extra calories, salt, and/or fat, choose frozen vegetables without added sauces or cheese. Sodium is often added to canned products. A portion of this may be rinsed off with water, or you can choose the low sodium or no sodium that are often available (check the label!).

Source

In this modern age we lack proper nutritional intake.

In some countries, this is true. Not in the industrialized world, though.

Thats what enable things like 5 hour energy drink to be so popular. All it is , is a shot of B vitamins.

B vitamins will make you alert and jumpy if you take a lot. I did this in the eighties as part of cramming, so I have experience with it.
Regarding energy shot ingredients :

Living Essentials pioneered energy shots in 2004 with 5-Hour Energy, which still holds more than 75% of the market. Industry heavyweights such as Red Bull, Monster Energy, and Coca-Cola have since introduced their own energy shots. Their ingredients vary, but most contain caffeine, B vitamins, and taurine (an amino acid found in food from animal sources) as well as flavorings and artificial sweeteners.
SNIP

The shots tend to have about as much caffeine as regular energy drinks, and it's the caffeine that provides most of the kick, experts say. Because of that, nutritionists urge caution, especially for those who also drink coffee or other caffeinated drinks.

Jim White, RD, a national spokesman for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, says, "I’m seeing a lot of combinations -- coffee, 5-Hour Energy, green teas -- and if you add up all the mega doses of caffeine during the day, it can cause problems."

Source

Ingredient list in the brand you name - from the company website: link
It's not just B vitamins.
Megadoses of B do tend to have an affect similar to caffeine, though.

Harte

 

[titorite]

See, you tell me I have it backwards but you have not done your proper research.

Eating fresh raw veggies is best. That is what you will get the most out of. The moment the plant is cut decay begins. Freezing limits some but also destroys some.

Nutritional Effects of Food Processing – NutritionData.com

Freezing, Drying, Cooking, and Reheating
Nearly every food preparation process reduces the amount of nutrients in food. In particular, processes that expose foods to high levels of heat, light, and/or oxygen cause the greatest nutrient loss. Nutrients can also be "washed out" of foods by fluids that are introduced during a cooking process. For example, boiling a potato can cause much of the potato's B and C vitamins to migrate to the boiling water. You'll still benefit from those nutrients if you consume the liquid (i.e. if the potato and water are being turned into potato soup), but not if you throw away the liquid. Similar losses also occur when you broil, roast, or fry in oil, and then drain off the drippings.

The table below compares the typical maximum nutrient losses for common food processing methods. This table is included as a general guide only. Actual losses will depend on many different factors, including type of food and cooking time and temperature. For additional data on specific preparation methods, please see the USDA Table of Nutrient Retention Factors (2003).

You say we don't lack proper nutritional intake? Just because we are the second fattest nation on earth doesn't mean we are getting proper nutrition.


As for the bleach? Yes it does destroy other chemicals, Like thats why we use it to disinfect. As to why we use it in sugar and flour and chicken? well, some folks worry more about being clean instead of being toxic.

Food Industry
Sodium bisulfite is used to preserve color and inhibit bacterial growth on fruits and vegetables, some seafood and in wine. It was once favored for preserving produce because it kept vitamin C from breaking down, but it not in meat because it destroys vitamin B1. It is frequently used as a bleaching agent in flour and grains,

Bleach destroys proteins ,
Yeah your meat might be clean but it is also worthless and toxic.

The use of bleach or any other microbial substance to treat poultry is currently forbidden in the EU, but not in the US. Despite the opposition of 16 agricultural ministers from across Europe, American pressure may soon cause the ban to be lifted so that US-treated chicken can be exported to the EU.

 

[titorite]

As I sat there and thought about it all I had to give up and hit reply.

I realized I was debating with someone that is arguing every Corporate side of the argument.

"Vitamins are bad because you can OD on them so don't take vitamins, but antibiotic hormone infused bleached meat is good, eat lots of that."

It feels like less of a debate and more like of a promotion of modern corporate consumerism ,
With that I bail for now. I just can't see any exchange of ideas happening here with you Harte.

Be well and God bless.

 

[TnWatchdog]

I stay away from processed foods and enjoy fresh produce. I do not use the microwave as the healthy vitamins get nuked. Keep it simple and live longer.

 

[Harte]

See, you tell me I have it backwards but you have not done your proper research.

"Proper research?"

You just tossed off a line of crap:
"Frozen greens, canned tomatoes, cooked veggies all lack in vitamins."

The fact is, frozen and canned NEVER lack in vitamins at all. It is the FRESH veggies that can lack in vitamins.

Eating fresh raw veggies is best. That is what you will get the most out of. The moment the plant is cut decay begins. Freezing limits some but also destroys some. [/quote]
You have to grow your own to eat fresh. Believe it or not, this presents a problem to the majority of the country where, you know, it gets cold in the winter.

The only thing wrong with canned vegetables (other than flavor) is sodium content.

Harte

 

[titorite]

The fact is, frozen and canned NEVER lack in vitamins at all. It is the FRESH veggies that can lack in vitamins.

And smoking can add years to your life and cure TB,...

You have a good one Harte.

 

[Einstein]

I always have my salt shaker ready, just so I can take a grain of salt with Harte's opinions.