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Cosmo's Big Thread of Anti-Theism
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<blockquote data-quote="TimeWizardCosmo" data-source="post: 82099" data-attributes="member: 2"><p><span style="font-size: 18px"><strong><strong>God created/caused the universe</strong></strong></span></p><p></p><p>The First Cause Argument, or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument#Objections_and_counterarguments" target="_blank">Cosmological Argument</a>, is <a href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Cosmological_argument#Counter-apologetics" target="_blank">internally contradictory</a> and raises the following questions: Who or what created god?, Why should a hypothetical ‘cause’ have any of the common attributes of a god?, Why is the ‘cause’ a specific god?, Why can’t the universe be causeless too? and, most importantly, Why rule out all other <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmogony" target="_blank">possible explanations</a>?</p><p></p><p>It is fundamentally a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps" target="_blank">‘god of the gaps’</a> approach. Our current lack of understanding concerning the Universe’s origins <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance" target="_blank">does not</a> automatically mean ‘god’ holds any explanatory value. Metaphysical and theistic speculation <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance" target="_blank">are not</a> immediately justified or correct simply because we lack a comprehensive scientific model. Uncertainty is the most valid position and one can honestly say <u><em><strong>“We just don’t know yet”.</strong></em></u></p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]6OLPL5p0fMg[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>The argument ignores the fact that our everyday understanding of causality has been arrived at via <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_priori_and_a_posteriori" target="_blank">a posteriori</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning" target="_blank">inductive reasoning</a> – which means it might not apply to everything. Time, for instance, appears to have begun with the Big Bang, so there might not have been any ’cause’ for the Universe to be an ‘effect’ of since there was probably <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpb7NMR-XOo" target="_blank">no time for a ’cause’ to exist in</a>.</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]fmYlbqtAYOQ[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>Applying concepts like time and causality to the Big Bang might be comparable to asking “What is north of the North Pole?” – ultimately nonsensical and incoherent. Furthermore, even if causality could be established it would not immediately imply the existence of a god, much less any <a href="http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Which_god%3F" target="_blank">particular one</a>, as the properties and nature of the ’cause’ could forever remain a mystery or be <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmogony" target="_blank">naturalistic</a>.</p><p></p><p>In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to <a href="http://bmgoau.com/videos/eann_webm.html" target="_blank">observe it</a> in the form of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle" target="_blank">virtual particles</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation" target="_blank">quantum vacuum fluctuations</a>. They explain why the early universe lacked uniformity and provided the seeds for the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_formation_and_evolution" target="_blank">emergence of structure</a>. These quantum phenomena are also causeless in the sense that they are objectively and irreducibly <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness#In_the_physical_sciences" target="_blank">random</a>, a fact confirmed by tests of <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v446/n7138/abs/nature05677.html" target="_blank">non-local realism</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem" target="_blank">Bell’s Theorem</a>.</p><p></p><p>Theists often state “God is outside of time”. This claim does not actually make their speculation correct. Instead, it brings with it a whole <a href="http://www.gotatheism.com/out_of_time.asp" target="_blank">host</a> <a href="http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-An-Atheist/1138190" target="_blank">of</a> <a href="http://atheism.about.com/od/whatisgod/a/eternal.htm" target="_blank">problems</a> and may be immediately dismissed as being without basis and a type fallacy known as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading" target="_blank">special pleading</a>.</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]4E-_DdX8Ke0[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]7nIRJVmZ4K8[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]7ImvlS8PLIo[/MEDIA]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TimeWizardCosmo, post: 82099, member: 2"] [SIZE=5][B][B]God created/caused the universe[/B][/B][/SIZE] The First Cause Argument, or [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument#Objections_and_counterarguments']Cosmological Argument[/URL], is [URL='http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Cosmological_argument#Counter-apologetics']internally contradictory[/URL] and raises the following questions: Who or what created god?, Why should a hypothetical ‘cause’ have any of the common attributes of a god?, Why is the ‘cause’ a specific god?, Why can’t the universe be causeless too? and, most importantly, Why rule out all other [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmogony']possible explanations[/URL]? It is fundamentally a [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps']‘god of the gaps’[/URL] approach. Our current lack of understanding concerning the Universe’s origins [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance']does not[/URL] automatically mean ‘god’ holds any explanatory value. Metaphysical and theistic speculation [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance']are not[/URL] immediately justified or correct simply because we lack a comprehensive scientific model. Uncertainty is the most valid position and one can honestly say [U][I][B]“We just don’t know yet”.[/B][/I][/U] [MEDIA=youtube]6OLPL5p0fMg[/MEDIA] The argument ignores the fact that our everyday understanding of causality has been arrived at via [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_priori_and_a_posteriori']a posteriori[/URL] [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning']inductive reasoning[/URL] – which means it might not apply to everything. Time, for instance, appears to have begun with the Big Bang, so there might not have been any ’cause’ for the Universe to be an ‘effect’ of since there was probably [URL='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpb7NMR-XOo']no time for a ’cause’ to exist in[/URL]. [MEDIA=youtube]fmYlbqtAYOQ[/MEDIA] Applying concepts like time and causality to the Big Bang might be comparable to asking “What is north of the North Pole?” – ultimately nonsensical and incoherent. Furthermore, even if causality could be established it would not immediately imply the existence of a god, much less any [URL='http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Which_god%3F']particular one[/URL], as the properties and nature of the ’cause’ could forever remain a mystery or be [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmogony']naturalistic[/URL]. In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to [URL='http://bmgoau.com/videos/eann_webm.html']observe it[/URL] in the form of [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle']virtual particles[/URL] and [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation']quantum vacuum fluctuations[/URL]. They explain why the early universe lacked uniformity and provided the seeds for the [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_formation_and_evolution']emergence of structure[/URL]. These quantum phenomena are also causeless in the sense that they are objectively and irreducibly [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomness#In_the_physical_sciences']random[/URL], a fact confirmed by tests of [URL='http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v446/n7138/abs/nature05677.html']non-local realism[/URL] and [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem']Bell’s Theorem[/URL]. Theists often state “God is outside of time”. This claim does not actually make their speculation correct. Instead, it brings with it a whole [URL='http://www.gotatheism.com/out_of_time.asp']host[/URL] [URL='http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-An-Atheist/1138190']of[/URL] [URL='http://atheism.about.com/od/whatisgod/a/eternal.htm']problems[/URL] and may be immediately dismissed as being without basis and a type fallacy known as [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading']special pleading[/URL]. [MEDIA=youtube]4E-_DdX8Ke0[/MEDIA] [MEDIA=youtube]7nIRJVmZ4K8[/MEDIA] [MEDIA=youtube]7ImvlS8PLIo[/MEDIA] [/QUOTE]
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