Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

Anyone else find the politicizing of the Schiavo case by the Bush administration to be strangely surreal and almost seem like a warning sign from Bush that stricter law enforcement is to follow? Maybe I'm crazy..

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

That and alot of other things. Could you give a little more detail?

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

Oh, yes sorry .


http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl...ssisted_Suicide


Brain-Damaged Woman's Feeding Tube Removed
(AP) - With a furious legal and political battle raging outside her hospice room, doctors removed Terri Schiavo's feeding tube Friday after an unprecedented attempt by Congress to keep the brain-damaged woman alive was rebuffed. Schiavo, 41, could take more than a week to die, provided no one intercedes and gets the tube reinserted -- as happened twice before. The move came after Republicans on Capitol Hill used their subpoena power to try demand that Schiavo be brought before a congressional hearing, saying removing the tube amounted to "barbarism."



Congress & Bush are butting their noses in over this and making it a political topic.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

That is certianly a sign of the federal government butting in on what is a state or local matter. In and of it'self though its not going to start any civil war, especially not of the type Titor described. It will take more forcing of centeralized control to turn the rurals (who tend to like Bush) into open rebellion. That is going to come IMHO with further assults on the second and fourth ammendments. If the feds can start to do block searches without warrents then we will see some resistance. Any further revocation of the second ammendment is going to cause some trouble with that sector too. I don't know if we are going to see that under Bush.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

First off, This is sick. If you have made a decision to 'let' a person pass on, where is the sense of having that person starve to death? A simple shot to knock her out, and then another shot to stop the heart. Very safe, very painless.

This poor lady's tribulations have been a long journey. I think someone escalated and some how got the govt. involved via 'connections'

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>

Yeah, the woman got herself in this predicament by getting anorexic, and you've got God's mouthpiece in Washington telling little brother in Florida to keep the faith. Let the poor woman go. She's been gone. Her body is all that's left.

Cary

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

Boy am I glad I don't moderate this part of the forum I promise to be good Kira and Last.

This is a subject near and dear to my heart as I have a close relative that is currently being kept alive via a feeding tube.

If I had time I'll give links, but here are the facts of the case as I have heard.

Terri Schiavo suffered a stroke 15 years ago. This stroke left her in a (depending on who you talk to) vegetative state. She responds to voices, music, and touch. She responds with eye contact, and voice.

Her husband, Michael wants to have the feeding tube pulled. He claims that Terri would have never wanted to live like this, however there is no definitive proof of this (such as a DNR order, living will or other record). Only her husband's wishes.

Her husband has a long-term girlfriend which he has two children with. He will not divorce Terri because he says he is Catholic and wants to remarry in the Church.

Michael also stands to receive an undisclosed amount from an insurance policy. Depending on sources the amount is between $1 and $10 million USD.

Her parents and siblings do not want her feeding tube pulled. They have proof from two neurologists that through speech and physical therapy (which Michael pulled from his wife 12 years ago) she will improve. She may improve to the point that she will be back to the way she was before her stroke!

Her parents and siblings have told Michael that he can go on his own way, live his life... they will take care of Terri and take care of all of her medical expenses.

This is not a case where you are pulling a respirator (pulling the plug) on a patient. Her heart beats on it's own and she breathes on her own. This is literal, barbaric starvation of a person that cannot speak for herself, just because the spouse wants to go on with his life. It won't happen in one day or two. It will take approximately two weeks for her to completely starve to death.

Think for a moment what it would be like to lock a baby in a closet for two weeks. The baby cannot speak for itself or get food, but would have the capacity to do so with training. People have done this before and it is called murder. The community stands around wondering why that person did not give that baby to another family member or put it up for adoption.

Think about that baby and you have the case of Terri Schiavo. (IMO)

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

I want to also add what has been in recent news reports (and it wasn't on FOX, it was on CNN TV)

It is possible that Michael abused her and caused her stroke. There were unexplained bruises on her body (wrists and neck) when she was rushed to the emergency room. For her to come out of her vegetative state and finger him would not be in his best interests. Further if you look at the Police report/depositions you will find that Michael not only called 2 people before calling 911 , the way the paramedics found her is questionable. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1...ts?page=350#350

Michael has not allowed her to be photographed or taken out of her room in two years.

Michael has banned the OPENING of a WINDOW in her room. She has not breathed a breath of fresh air in two years.

Does this sound like a man looking out for his wife's best interests? I'm not trying to sound extreme here, but it sounds more like a hostage (mental and physical) situation than a spouse letting his wife go.

As for the reason congress should have a say in this, how about the right of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness?


Related links: http://terrisfight.org/
www.helpterri.com

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

Sue, I very much agree with your thoughts. Did her husband articulate her "wishes" from the get go or did he start saying Terri wouldn't want to live like this only after he had retained a right to die attorney? The latter, of course. Why doesn't he want an autopsy performed if and when she starves to death? And why the hurry to cremate her body as quickly as possible? This guy has all the tell tale signs of a man with something to hide.

Scott Peterson's case will be reviewed in federal court before he pays for the crimes he was convicted of. Terri did no crime. Doesn't she deserve as much consideration? I will be phoning the state reps from FL this weekend and encourage them not to let one judge become the arbiter of life and death in this nation, because the trickle down theory of quality of life over sanctity of life will see this play out with increasing frequency if Terri ends up dying.

What's the address of the hospice she is in? Maybe if everyone in the country sends her a pbnj sandwich............ Okay, too impractical, but I'm open to anything. And besides, the right people would probably miss the point entirely.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sosuemetoo\")</div>

Indeed Susan I very much agree with you.

US Congress shouldn't have a say, it should be FL's Senate/Repub. that has a say.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

Reguardless of the right and wrong of the case, it is not a federal matter, except perhaps for the supreme court. It should be decided in Flordia. Once the precident of congress interveaning in local matters is set its not going to be the last time.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div>

Agreed; If you open the door they will come through.

And It would only be a matter of time before they took over the courts as well.

I'm starting to think the US Constitution isn't the Supreme Law of the Land...

And Dorthy's way of going home won't happen...

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Eutychus\")</div>

Very good point Eutychus. Her husband said nothing until 8 years later that Terri's desire was to die.

Now, if this first hand account is true... someone needs to step in to save this woman's life. I don't care if it's the Feds or the President.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread21336/pg2 It's the 4th post from the bottom and she is a reputable poster.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div>

Dark,
Normally I would agree with you. The states have the right to set their own laws and they shouldn't be overridden by the feds.

However, this is a matter of life and death. This isn't about what a speed limit should be, levying of taxes, or if jaywalking should be illegal. Life is a federal right given to us in the constitution. This isn't a case of when life begins or medical death (as in if the heart is beating and the person is on a respirator) This person is not in a coma or on life support. Just a tube that is feeding her.

In the end the state or fed government should not HAVE to intervene. This is all common sense. You don't starve your spouse to death.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

Oh, the irony.. I think this just proves bush could give two ****s about the woman and are using her to push there BS .

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...article?AID=/20...


According to doctors at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., 60 percent of the wounded soldiers coming back from Iraq have traumatic brain injuries.

Unfortunately, the Bush administration has recently completely zeroed out funding for the Federal TBI Act, which provides exactly this kind of help.

In Vermont, due to recent decisions concerning budgetary shortfalls, TBI survivors are now prevented from entering the Vermont TBI Medicaid Waiver Program, which delivers exactly this kind of help.

Please call the governor (802) 828-3345 and our congressional representatives and ask them to support the Vermont TBI Medicaid Waiver Program.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"sosuemetoo\")</div>

I think if we start letting george bush dictate our medical procedures and breaking our laws, we'd be submitting to tyranny.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

This is precisely the kind of emotionally charged issue that has gotten the noses of so many camels under so many tents. I find it quite suspicious that its causing such an uproar now, and the family connections between those pushing the agenda are a little too convienient. Once they've set that precident, they can start throwing their weight around on issues that aren't life and death. The feds have way too much power already, allowing them more is not a good idea reguardless of the circumstance. I know this sounds cold, but life or death or not we have to look at the bigger picture. The constitutional seperation of powers must be maintained, that is more important than the life of any one person.

Now the supreme court does have the right to rule on the case. If there is to be any federal interferance they are the only legitimate source of it.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

Supreme Court involvement in this case would not necessarily be an interference, but any Congressional or Executive action about it is definitely interference and a dangerous, alarming new kind of federalism.

When Ashcroft was leaving office, he took one last pot shot at the Constitutional structure of state and federal powers and ordered an appeal to proceed challenging Oregon's right to die law. Mind you, this is after federal court involvement upholding Oregon's clear right to pass a law in an area not preempted by federal law.

Ashcroft had previously attempted to get the physician's licenses revoked for doctors who had complied with the state law in practicing in Oregon.

The lines are clearly being crossed, violated. The violators are federal officials, not the courts. They are attempting to enforce federal dominance over state and local law.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div>

Dark, we may both get our wish. I just heard on the news (haven't found the link) that Terri's family just has filed with the Supreme Court. The Court has not said whether or not they will hear arguments.

Re: Could this be the rift that starts the civil war?

This is a sad case indeed. Whatever happen to "For better or for worse?" I see this on the news every morning and I feel bad for this Lady. What a husband. Jerk.