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<blockquote data-quote="pauli" data-source="post: 9761" data-attributes="member: 88"><p><strong>Frauds and lies</strong></p><p></p><p>Hmm... It seems to me that there are two camps here. Those that believe there is something to be concerned with regarding terrorism and those that believe, to use Kerry's words, "terrorism is nothing more than a nuissance."</p><p></p><p>Sorry Cary, I have to agree with Smuda when he says you are working out of the playbook of those who believe in the Protocols. My goodness, you seem to be one step away from the neo-Nazi position when it comes to the idea of the Jews: "the Jews are our misfortune." Having been both inside and outside of the Jewish community, I cannot explain how scary it is to me that people, who espouse what I believe to be such venomous and hateful nonsense, are continuing in the rhetoric that built the gas-chambers. I am not talking about you specifically, but my skin began to crawl when I read all of that theory about 9-11 being a Mossad action. Simply put, the Jews just aren't that good, and/or that nepharious.</p><p></p><p>Yes, Smuda, the whole issue about the celebrating in the Palestinian streets is well known to those who live in Israel. Reporters who were there in the territories came back with film, ready to expose the world to what they witnessed, when they were told they could not publish it by their editors. When they tried to object, they were told, in no uncertain terms that they would never ever work in Journalism again if they showed their newsreel. Some of their lives were even threatened. So, most of them just filed it away as being unusable.</p><p></p><p>The problem with Americans is that we are pretty removed from the threat of Islamic extremism. We kind of brush it off as something "not serious." It can't be that these people would hate us so much; after all, we are good people and so are they. There is no way the Mussies would ever want to do to us what happened on 9-11. It couldn't have been that. Instead, it was the Mossad, it was the U.S. gov't; it was anyone and everyone else. Islam is a religion of peace don't you know. They have no reason to be so upset at us. There must be another explanation - anything other than what the Bush gov't may have said that it is. </p><p></p><p>And, if there isn't any other explanation, well, then "We deserved it." Just look at what we have done in the past. Look at the long list of intrusions we have made into the world. And to that I say, "Yes, we have made intrusions into the world. But show me one country that has not. To whom should we give the rock to throw that first stone." (Hint: if you want to give it to the Muslim communities, I would reconsider. They have been (and still are) more colonial that Europe has been in most of its history.) You obviously can't give it to Europe. You can't give it to the U.S. You can't give it to China, or Japan. We are all guilty at some point somewhere. Perhaps some third world backwater tribes who live in some jungle where most men never go???</p><p></p><p>So, getting back to the theme of this thread, what about allegations of fraud and lies within the gov't? Do they exist? Of course they do. But from what I can see it isn't so black and white. While it may make us feel better to point to the other side, no matter what that other side is and say, "I have seen the devil and it is you," we may want to realize things are a WHOLE lot more complex and convoluted than that. Can it possibly be that there are people high up in the seats of power that are actually decent and are working out of the intelligence information that they have? Is it possible that not everything in this blinking world is not about economics (oil)? Could it be that there are other forces involved? (i.e. G-d) Is man using his free-will to the betterment of society and to the world's benefit? Where does the real begin and end? Where does the paranoia begin and end?</p><p></p><p>To my mind, we haven't got a clue as to whether or not Bush is a horrible president. That jury is still out. We don't know if Kerry will (should he be elected) a better president either. Most of what we will learn about this era in world history, will be learned by our children or grandchildren. Right now we are a bit too close to the trees to see the forest with any helpful perspective.</p><p></p><p>Sorry about the rambling.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pauli, post: 9761, member: 88"] [b]Frauds and lies[/b] Hmm... It seems to me that there are two camps here. Those that believe there is something to be concerned with regarding terrorism and those that believe, to use Kerry's words, "terrorism is nothing more than a nuissance." Sorry Cary, I have to agree with Smuda when he says you are working out of the playbook of those who believe in the Protocols. My goodness, you seem to be one step away from the neo-Nazi position when it comes to the idea of the Jews: "the Jews are our misfortune." Having been both inside and outside of the Jewish community, I cannot explain how scary it is to me that people, who espouse what I believe to be such venomous and hateful nonsense, are continuing in the rhetoric that built the gas-chambers. I am not talking about you specifically, but my skin began to crawl when I read all of that theory about 9-11 being a Mossad action. Simply put, the Jews just aren't that good, and/or that nepharious. Yes, Smuda, the whole issue about the celebrating in the Palestinian streets is well known to those who live in Israel. Reporters who were there in the territories came back with film, ready to expose the world to what they witnessed, when they were told they could not publish it by their editors. When they tried to object, they were told, in no uncertain terms that they would never ever work in Journalism again if they showed their newsreel. Some of their lives were even threatened. So, most of them just filed it away as being unusable. The problem with Americans is that we are pretty removed from the threat of Islamic extremism. We kind of brush it off as something "not serious." It can't be that these people would hate us so much; after all, we are good people and so are they. There is no way the Mussies would ever want to do to us what happened on 9-11. It couldn't have been that. Instead, it was the Mossad, it was the U.S. gov't; it was anyone and everyone else. Islam is a religion of peace don't you know. They have no reason to be so upset at us. There must be another explanation - anything other than what the Bush gov't may have said that it is. And, if there isn't any other explanation, well, then "We deserved it." Just look at what we have done in the past. Look at the long list of intrusions we have made into the world. And to that I say, "Yes, we have made intrusions into the world. But show me one country that has not. To whom should we give the rock to throw that first stone." (Hint: if you want to give it to the Muslim communities, I would reconsider. They have been (and still are) more colonial that Europe has been in most of its history.) You obviously can't give it to Europe. You can't give it to the U.S. You can't give it to China, or Japan. We are all guilty at some point somewhere. Perhaps some third world backwater tribes who live in some jungle where most men never go??? So, getting back to the theme of this thread, what about allegations of fraud and lies within the gov't? Do they exist? Of course they do. But from what I can see it isn't so black and white. While it may make us feel better to point to the other side, no matter what that other side is and say, "I have seen the devil and it is you," we may want to realize things are a WHOLE lot more complex and convoluted than that. Can it possibly be that there are people high up in the seats of power that are actually decent and are working out of the intelligence information that they have? Is it possible that not everything in this blinking world is not about economics (oil)? Could it be that there are other forces involved? (i.e. G-d) Is man using his free-will to the betterment of society and to the world's benefit? Where does the real begin and end? Where does the paranoia begin and end? To my mind, we haven't got a clue as to whether or not Bush is a horrible president. That jury is still out. We don't know if Kerry will (should he be elected) a better president either. Most of what we will learn about this era in world history, will be learned by our children or grandchildren. Right now we are a bit too close to the trees to see the forest with any helpful perspective. Sorry about the rambling. [/QUOTE]
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