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Spirituality & Mysticism
GOD:True or false
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<blockquote data-quote="Eutychus" data-source="post: 24133" data-attributes="member: 287"><p><strong>Re: GOD:True or false</strong></p><p></p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> </p><p> </p><p>So the first evidence of life on earth evolved its way from an inanimate clump of chemicals into something that can eat, excrete, grow, and reproduce in such a way as to pass along complex genetic information(even the simplest genomes are pretty complicated) and improve upon itself in the process. That's pretty impressive dirt.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> </p><p></p><p>Gray, if you happen to have a significant other, was it science or rationality that won them over? Some of the most desired results in life totally defy reason.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> </p><p></p><p>At what point in this dance does consciousness enter the picture? How did consciousness enter the picture? First, chemicals come together in such a way as to nourish themselves, eliminate wastes, and reproduce themselves correctly. By what mechanism did the color of the walls become important to them? I have always viewed the brain as an interface unit by which a spiritual creature interacts with the physical world. And trust me, there is a difference between the brain and the conscious mind. I lived on the borderland between the two for about 13 years. Ever have an epileptic seizure? It's a fascinating experience. There is a point at the beginning of the seizure when you are aware that the brain is rapidly losing control of things, that it is awash in bioelectricity to the degree that it totally overwhelms the CPU. Kind of like the blue screen of death in Windows 95. I knew that my brain was out of the picture for the moment, but I was still thinking about my situation. If the brain is the source of the mind and it was incapacitated, how was I thinking trying to work my way out of the seizure? The brain also hadn't better be the source of the mind or the source of who we are because if that's true, then I am currently less than a full person. I'm operating with 3/4s of a brain and seizure free, but I don't feel like 3/4s of a person. I am exactly the person I was before the surgery (minus the convulsions) and in many ways better on the intelligence scale. I scored in the low 150s on IQ tests before the surgeries and in the low 170s after. This tells me there is more to the mind than the brain. </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> </p><p></p><p>Actually, I always pictured prayer as original research into the subject of spirituality. It's an interesting form of research that allows the experimenter to learn as much about himself as he learns about the object of study. I doubt there are many folks who pray for natural laws to be bent to their advantage</p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div></p><p></p><p>First off, this statement is arrogant as hell in that you are asserting that those who converse with God are neither rational nor intelligent. God gave us a mind capable of reasoning things out, and I suspect he gets a little frustrated with those of us who choose not to use those abilities. But I'm sure he's also pleased by those who choose to ask him to enter into their circumstances.</p><p></p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div></p><p></p><p>Gray, Noah was told to take a pair of every "kind" of animal, not every species. Bovine, procine, canine, feline, equine, etc. The numbers drop drastically. You know, there is a reasonable answer to every objection out there on the subject of God and his relationship to his creation, but if you don't want there to be a God, you'll find an out every time.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div></p><p></p><p>Gray, to act as you suggest would mean that God merely treats people as a means to an end. He would have no respect for us, cutting off our desire to act independently before the line could be crossed. That would make him a tyrant, probably not worthy of worship even by your standards. As to eliminating evil and not doing so, God is in the redemption business, making something good from something that went awry, not the "keep it from turning bad in the first place" business.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Eutychus, post: 24133, member: 287"] [b]Re: GOD:True or false[/b] <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> So the first evidence of life on earth evolved its way from an inanimate clump of chemicals into something that can eat, excrete, grow, and reproduce in such a way as to pass along complex genetic information(even the simplest genomes are pretty complicated) and improve upon itself in the process. That's pretty impressive dirt. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> Gray, if you happen to have a significant other, was it science or rationality that won them over? Some of the most desired results in life totally defy reason. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> At what point in this dance does consciousness enter the picture? How did consciousness enter the picture? First, chemicals come together in such a way as to nourish themselves, eliminate wastes, and reproduce themselves correctly. By what mechanism did the color of the walls become important to them? I have always viewed the brain as an interface unit by which a spiritual creature interacts with the physical world. And trust me, there is a difference between the brain and the conscious mind. I lived on the borderland between the two for about 13 years. Ever have an epileptic seizure? It's a fascinating experience. There is a point at the beginning of the seizure when you are aware that the brain is rapidly losing control of things, that it is awash in bioelectricity to the degree that it totally overwhelms the CPU. Kind of like the blue screen of death in Windows 95. I knew that my brain was out of the picture for the moment, but I was still thinking about my situation. If the brain is the source of the mind and it was incapacitated, how was I thinking trying to work my way out of the seizure? The brain also hadn't better be the source of the mind or the source of who we are because if that's true, then I am currently less than a full person. I'm operating with 3/4s of a brain and seizure free, but I don't feel like 3/4s of a person. I am exactly the person I was before the surgery (minus the convulsions) and in many ways better on the intelligence scale. I scored in the low 150s on IQ tests before the surgeries and in the low 170s after. This tells me there is more to the mind than the brain. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> Actually, I always pictured prayer as original research into the subject of spirituality. It's an interesting form of research that allows the experimenter to learn as much about himself as he learns about the object of study. I doubt there are many folks who pray for natural laws to be bent to their advantage <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> First off, this statement is arrogant as hell in that you are asserting that those who converse with God are neither rational nor intelligent. God gave us a mind capable of reasoning things out, and I suspect he gets a little frustrated with those of us who choose not to use those abilities. But I'm sure he's also pleased by those who choose to ask him to enter into their circumstances. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> Gray, Noah was told to take a pair of every "kind" of animal, not every species. Bovine, procine, canine, feline, equine, etc. The numbers drop drastically. You know, there is a reasonable answer to every objection out there on the subject of God and his relationship to his creation, but if you don't want there to be a God, you'll find an out every time. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Grayson\")</div> Gray, to act as you suggest would mean that God merely treats people as a means to an end. He would have no respect for us, cutting off our desire to act independently before the line could be crossed. That would make him a tyrant, probably not worthy of worship even by your standards. As to eliminating evil and not doing so, God is in the redemption business, making something good from something that went awry, not the "keep it from turning bad in the first place" business. [/QUOTE]
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