Debate Homosexuality / Equal Marriage (Poll & Debate)

[paradoxicated]

Me being a Mormon (LDS), many people would assume that I think homosexuality is a sin and gay marriage is wrong and you'll go to hell and all that. However, the LDS stance on Homosexuality is: "The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is." What this is saying is that god made you gay, it's not a choice. And thus not a sin. And it's also saying that acting on it is a sin. Which is where equal marriage comes in. I independently believe Gay Marriage is a sin. However, I believe that in general society we shouldn't be voting against love by voting against equal marriage. That's basically bringing your religion into everybody's faces rather than saying it's wrong, but still support them through it. Like drugs or coffee/tea/alcohol (weird mormon things ).

Anyway, I just wanted to see everybody else's stance on homosexuality & equal marriage (gay/straight/lesbian/etc.) was, so I added a poll too.

EDIT: Sorry, I accidentally hit enter before I was finished adding poll choices. You can ignore the poll.

 

[Khaos]

Well, just about everyone here knows I'm gay. And I have yet to receive a single harsh comment regarding my sexual orientation. So I figure the general population of the site is pretty much okay with it. I mean, some folks here could be "well i feel its wrong, but its your choice" and just leave it at that, and its fine, if my sexuality is against your beliefs, then that is your belief.

My motto when it comes to Religion and Sexuality. It doesn't bother me if what I do in the bedroom with another guy, offends you. What you choose to offend me with when you open your mouth, does.

Marriage. A lot of people define it as love between a man and a woman. I define it as love between two people. Two people who have a strong connection and are wanting to be in a publicly and legally recognized relationship. I have no issue with gay marriage, and I'm intently awaiting my own state (Michigan) to vote on it. We passed a ban in 2004, on it. And now in February 2014, they are going to look at the ban and see if it is unconstitutional. (the judge presiding over the case is actually pro-gay, which gives us a huge chance) I'm really hoping that the lawmakers here in Michigan have paid attention to other states (Hawaii and New Mexico becoming the newest states to legalize gay marriage) and legalize it here.

Not only that, but allow me and my boyfriend to adopt children as well. Michigan probably has the harshest anti gay laws in this country. We still classify being gay a mental disease, ha.

 

[Justinian]

Is this the point where everyone chimes in saying they have LBG friends? lol. just kidding. Sometimes I worry for the future of not only this great nation of mine, but for humanity as a whole. I see the way kids these days behave and act. Sometimes I just want to crawl inside myself and fly off. But then once in a while I see or hear something that gives me hope. I know you said you were a kid before and it's nice to see that values are still being instilled in some people's kids of common decency towards others. I'm not saying your opinion is right or wrong, just that I've seen how you type in some of your posts, and I know for a fact that some children that I'll leave nameless, would never have the intellect to put words together like that.

I do have to ask though @Khaos, why not move? I know that is sometimes just as touchy a subject as religion or sexuality, but I've brought it up before about people not working and wanting to get assistance when there are plenty of jobs in other places, but people just refuse to move sometimes. And maybe that's not your case, I'm just wondering. Is it a matter of you feel like you're part of this legal process so you want to stay and see it through? And what about not necessarily moving, but just going there like people do when they go get married in Vegas?

@paradoxicated, this is very interesting on what you say about the LDS church. When I was in Afghanistan I always liked hanging out and chatting with the LDS guys, we called them the Mormon mafia, cause anything you wanted, you went to those guys and they'd make it happen. I know what they felt being older gentlemen in the church, which kinda surprised me that this new bill in Utah passed or is looking to pass on gay marriage. I figured there would be more of an outcry from the LDS community, but maybe they don't want to cause waves?

If you're both wondering my stance.. or not, I'm gonna give it. I don't really care what, who, or how many you marry. Just don't let it affect my life. That's always been my rule of thumb and has served me fairly well. I will say though that I have encountered a few couples (younger couples usually) that if they see you catching a glimpse at them, they'll start some sort of PDA to see if they can make you uncomfortable. I don't like that in hetero couples so it makes sense that I'd not like it in any couples. It's a youth think I know, but whether it be because you're gay, or that you won the lottery. Good for you, but I don't need you in my face 24/7 with a billboard following me around bragging about it. lol. I had a friend who was also a coworker. Everyone at work knew he was gay, but nobody said much about it. We just accepted it and moved on. Honestly nobody cared. He told me in a chat a year or so later after I had moved away that he had a secret he wanted to tell me. I cut him off and said, yeah I already know you're gay, but thanks for coming out with it. lol. He just kinda chuckled but was puzzled as to why I never made mention before. And my answer now is the same as then, I just didn't really care. I mean he's my friend so good for him, but I gave it about as much thought as if he had a girlfriend. It's life. You're never going to please everyone I guess. I think I might have offended him about the same amount had I called him a derogatory name.

But I will say this.. when I do get a chance to go out and party, Irish parties are #1, and then LBG parties come in a close second. There were more hot women and booze at one party I went to than any other house party I think I've ever been. And booze always wins.

 

[Khaos]

I do have to ask though @Khaos, why not move? I know that is sometimes just as touchy a subject as religion or sexuality, but I've brought it up before about people not working and wanting to get assistance when there are plenty of jobs in other places, but people just refuse to move sometimes. And maybe that's not your case, I'm just wondering. Is it a matter of you feel like you're part of this legal process so you want to stay and see it through? And what about not necessarily moving, but just going there like people do when they go get married in Vegas?

Because we don't want to. We both come from big and supportive families, most of his family lives here, most of mine does too. We are talking about relocating to another part of the state, but close to each others families and friends. What it comes down to is the personal comfort level of each other and this relationship. We don't feel comfortable moving somewhere totally unknown, where we know nobody else who lives there. And at this point in the relationship, we just don't feel ready to take the step of relocating to another state.

If we decide to spend the rest of our lives in this state, so be it. Its not a big deal to me and him. And if this state chooses to be the only state to have a ban on gay marriage, 20 years from now when all others are legalized, so be it. As much as we would like to marry, its not that big of a deal between us. At least the state allows us to be in a relationship, at least this country allows homosexuality. You can get your head chopped off in places like India for being gay.

I will say though that I have encountered a few couples (younger couples usually) that if they see you catching a glimpse at them, they'll start some sort of PDA to see if they can make you uncomfortable.

I've never encountered that before. I have seen PDA. I don't mind PDA much, as long as its not crossing the line. Holding hands, hugging, light kissing is fine, but when you got your hands down each others pants and are slobbering over each other, that isn't okay.

When I was about 10 or 11, my mom, brother and I went to the park for a picnic. There was a hetero couple butt naked, with the guy banging the girl against the tree. That is crossing the line.

I went out to eat on my birthday this year with my family and I saw a homosexual couple, basically slobbering on each other. He had his hand down there the other guy had his hand over there. That is crossing the line. I even lost my appetite. You might think, I wouldn't and I would enjoy seeing two guys making out, yeah, I do, but not when I'm trying to eat food, or be with my family in a public setting.

PDA works both ways and it has its comfort level both ways.

 

[Justinian]

Yeah that's what I"m talking about is the over the line stuff. I almost expect to see couples that love each other holding hands, and whispering in each others ears.. all that romantic stuff.. its when anyone purposefully puts on a show about slobbering their tongue over the other persons face and all the stuff you said. If you're in a club.. go for it.. when you're in a public park where people take their kids to hang out and walk their dogs and have picnics.. go get a room, that's not the place.

I had a guy come up to me one time in a bathroom and ask if my friend was gay. I laughed and told him no. He said.. too bad, that's a damn fine waste of a nice ass. LOL. He kinda looked shocked though, cause I half cut him off and said HEY. he said did I offend you? I said no, but what about mine? so after he was done laughing he said.. honey, we knew after taking one glance at you that you weren't gay. I said I'm not, but what about my ass? LOL. So we laughed a bit and he said it was a nice one. Then his friends invited me over and bought me a beer. I never turn down free beer. Turned out to be a good venture though because I was in a foreign country and a month later I was in the hospital for surgery and turns out, the one guy was the hospital administrator. I was treated like royalty once they found out I knew him. This story is why now, I never turn down a friendly offer or a friendly smile from strangers. Even if they look like the homliest bum you've ever met, you never know who they really are.

 

[Khaos]

I very rarely ask other men if they are gay. Its not because I fear repercussions, like they'll attack me if they are straight and are offended, but is it really any of my business? I tend to keep my sexuality in the bedroom. Well most of it. I don't mind talking about it here, but don't expect me to divulge "in the bedroom" things. Not that you would want to know that anyways, I'm sure you do not. I'm one of those types of people, that keeps my shit to myself in such a way, you wouldn't know I was gay, until I told you. I'm not in the closet, I've accepted this since 2002. I knew before then that there was something amiss, when I had my first crush on a boy in 2nd grade... and all the girls had a crush on me. I just don't flaunt my shit around.

That being said, I do commend that guy's courage for asking you. Its a big question to ask. And I appreciate your polite and passive response.

 

[AETERNAM REX]

I don't really care what people do, as long as they don't violate others.

 

[Brian Jung]

First of all, I would like to point out the one thing that your preferences dont have any relation with naturality or common sense. If you want to know what naturality or principles, you have to take a look the past carefully. Homosexuality is very common thing in the animal world especially in the realm of ape very close to human race. Speaking of human history, it has been very common on the whole one. The famous philosophers in Greece whose idea has been the cornerstone for the western civilization were homosexuals and the writings proved them. Someone who says homosexuality is not natural and beyond common sense have to know that they dont anything about what human race has been for more than thousand years. Dont stick to your preferences or favorites. Those are just yours not for all the human being.

 

[Justinian]

Once again, two sides come to an agreement while an instigator slips in to try and stir doubt. Way to go, I'm not biting.

 

[Kurt]

I think regardless of what any religion says, it should be allowed as plenty of other things which are against most religious are permitted and in my opinion, it's not harming anyone as what two consenting adults do in their bedroom is their business regardless of their gender/orientation.