Islam

shane

Junior Member
Messages
91
Re: Islam

There for a minute I could have sworn Pauli was the corporate news media. Pauli, you are directly associating a religion with a group of cultures who have adopted that religion. That is a leap in logic.

Christians among certain cultures take part in parades of public massochism. Some Buhddists advocate suicide as a route to Nirvana. Jews in Isreal terrorize Palestine as much as the adverse, the only difference being they have the support of the west. Naturally, by your (lack of) logic, all of these religions must be inherently flawed.

Perhaps people just kill each other. That's what we get for having a neocortex.
 

Hemoman

Junior Member
Messages
75
Re: Islam

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"DadOf5\")</div>
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that PyRo. I know that Allah, the Christian God, and Yaweh (sp?) are all supposed to be the same being; the same God.
The differences come from the three different \"prophets\" of God. Moses for the Jewish, Jesus Christ for the Christians, and Mohammed for the Muslims.

Each of these three prophets defined a way of life for their peoples that, I imagine, was consistent with their own views on life. So, in each religion we have Yaweh, God, and Allah showing different aspects of the same being, possibly due to the differing personalities that were preaching \"His Word\".

My point, is that you are right; Allah and God are the same being. It is the religion itself, or rather the views and words of the prophets, that are so drastically different.[/b]

Except that the difference is that in Christianity, the prophet you refer to (Jesus) is believed to be God/Allah/Yaweh in human form.
 

thenumbersix

Member
Messages
290
Re: Islam

what is Muslim society like, what is it like to live in a muslim country day to day compared to, say, England for an Englishman ? I do not really believe a lot of what I am told in the daily rag, they have a habit of missing the point and getting a really bizarre version of the real facts.
 

pauli

Junior Member
Messages
141
Re: Islam

\"There for a minute I could have sworn Pauli was the corporate news media. Pauli, you are directly associating a religion with a group of cultures who have adopted that religion. That is a leap in logic.\"

Shane, I recognize that my comments have generalities in them. And, I also recognize that there are exceptions to the rules. I have heard this accusation in the past. However, while it is not always prudent to judge something only by the rule, it is also a logical flaw to say that generalities do not exist. We all know they do and can bring across many examples to make our point.

Islam is a way of life, a way of thinking and a way of expressing oneself in the world. It is a system of philosophy, thought and politics. The governments based upon this philosophy have many similarities. For example, they live under Islamic law - aka Sharia Law. The Sharia is a codified set of laws, or rules about how an Islamic society is to be constructed. It is based upon Islamic theology. As a result, though the expression of a certain community - or region of the Umma - may be more or less different in non-important details, the general thrust of the society is based upon the Sharia.

You can see something similar in other systems of thought. For example, Communist countries have had more similarities in the ways they functioned than differences. Democracies also have many similarites, based upon the general rule.

When I make my statements, I am not parroting the words of the corporate media. I have taken the time to read up about the subject, from multiple sources researched by scholars. The problem with current Western society is that we tend to not learn about history. We view the people of the past as being simpletons who did not understand the nuances of cultural variance. We think that we in the present are somehow so much more enlightened. From whence comes this arrogance? Is it not possible that there were smart people back then who had a little more understanding of their neighbors that we? Santayana was correct. We all mouth his phrase and use it to our benefit; but we don't really put it into practice. Man very rarely learns the lessons of history. I am saying we need to learn from our history. We need to learn why things were the way they were. We need to sift through that history without making pre-concieved assumptions. And, when we find that those in the past were wrong, we need to throw out the things that didn't work. Then we need to cautiously move forward, like scientists, figuring out what will work.

From what I can see, Western society is on its own suicide course. Like the ancient Romans, we very well might be the generation that will see the barbarian hoards coming through our lands. And this, because we no longer stand for anything, except political correctness and multi-culturalism. We have no roots, something that Western Europe is going to learn is vital in order to survive. They are in the process of learning this very difficult lesson. Those on the outside, are looking toward our downfall with glee.

Also, don't be too assured of your thoughts that this is corporate media thinking. There are a number of people in Holland and France who voted against the recent EU constitution because of their concerns about the immigrants in their midst. People in Europe are seeing that their Muslim neighbors don't want to mix. Well, unless there is something in it for them, such as promoting Islam or whatnot. The Europeans want to mix with the Immigrants - or have the Immigrants be a part of their communities - but the feeling is not mutual. There are even comments that make it to the news media in Europe that lets people know how some of the Immigrants really feel. I am posting a recent comment made to one of the Archbishops at an Islamic-Christian dialogue meeting. It is not an isolated comment.

The Archbishop of Izmir, His Exc. Giuseppe Germano Bernandini, summed up the political dilemma of the West in relation to Islam by quoting an authoritative Muslim spokesperson that he had encountered during an Islamic-Christian dialogue meeting. The man calmly stated with assurance, \"Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to our religious laws we will dominate you.\"

http://www.islamreview.com/articles/theroad.shtml .

So, if you want to believe I am the voice of the corporate media on this site, so be it. I am more interested in learning about the truth than worrying about sensationalism.

btw, I know of a number of people on the cultural left who share similar concerns. This is a problem that is not going to go away and may be the basis for the next world war.
 

pauli

Junior Member
Messages
141
Re: Islam

\"Great post Pauli. It's always a pleasure to peruse your insightful writings.

Thanks Starlord. I guess I was so caught up in posting the other night that I failed to acknowledge your kind words. :)



The one thing I want to add to this discussion is this. It gives me no pleasure to present my ideas about Islam on the board. I know I come across as anti-Muslim and that is something that upsets me. In my personal life, I am a "live-and-let-live" person. I don't believe in the superiority or inferiority of human beings. I can see the marvel of different cultures and their intricate and interesting variations. In truth, I am as much an "enlightened" (whatever that means) Western intellectual as the next person. What has upset me more in learning about Islam and its bloody history is that I am forced into a position of making a stand. I can either allow myself to be forced into accepting this other culture's dominance over mine, or I have to stand up against it. I find that revolting. It would be one thing if Islam did not force others into its submission, but the fact is it does not. And pretending that away is very dangerous.

I see the barbarism, deceit and dysfunction of a world religion/philosophy that will brook no room for any one else's point of view. It is as totalitarian as the Nazi's or the Communist dictatorships and yet the West is giving it a pass?? Have we lost our blinking minds??? This is why I express such passionate words. I simply am expressing a concern that we all, in the West, should have about neighbors who do not mix with us, will not mix with us and view us with extreme disdain and condescending superiority. Years ago I took a class in negotiations. The first thing they taught us about negotiating with someone is make sure they are interested in negotiating; otherwise you end up bidding against yourself. This is what I think about the dialogue between the West and Islam. We are willing to trade, to negotiate and believe the other side is as well because they flatter us with words and high praise. But, do they follow through on their promises? Do they do as much as they talk? Those are the things we should be measuring. Not listening and being obsequious because we hold a guilty conscious for our past sins. We should hold our partners accountable through straight dealing because if we do not, our good will will be used against us. :(
 

shane

Junior Member
Messages
91
Re: Islam

Is the west any different? If you put autocentrism aside, I think you will agree that it is not. America, in particular, has a history of militant attempts to bring "democracy" to those who did not want it. A few here in the west impose their wills on others, first on the domestic population then, through that domestic population, on the world.

It is unfortunate that man can not accept the global society, which exists regardless of our ignorance. Ideas become nations, fences and borders. When the population begins to swell and push against those borders, crashing through those fences into opposing ideas, nations become armies. It matters not whether such an army kills for material wealth, glory or god.

Personally, I think the negativity the west focuses on Islam is based in fear. Empires such as ours burn bright, but they burn out fast.Fundamentalist systems of social control endure, generally speaking. Is Islam wrong? Sure they are. Just don't let that fool you into thinking the west is right.

An opposite is nothing more than the far end of the same wavelength.
 

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