Islam

darkbreed

Member
Messages
226
Re: Islam

Here I managed to find the story. It is of course a spiritual journey, not physical. With that I mean astral travel where he met various other entities and interacted with them.

In Islamic legend, Muhammad is reported to have gone on a mysterious night journey into heaven. Islamic sources state this happened "in the spirit," his body remaining behind. In this legend, Muhammad is prepared for his meeting with God by the archangels Jibril and Mikail one evening while he is asleep in the Ka'bah, the sacred shrine of Mecca. They open up his body and purify his heart by removing all traces of error, doubt, idolatry, and paganism and by filling it with wisdom and belief. An animal by the name of Buraq, apparently horse-like and white, and with a human face, was provided for a ride from the mosque in Mecca to the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, from where he ascended, supposedly on a ladder of light to the seven heavens. In the first heaven Muhammad meets Adam; in the second, John the Baptist and Jesus; in the third, Joseph; in the fourth, Enoch; in the fifth, Aaron; in the sixth, Moses; and in the seventh, Abraham (who welcomed him as "Good son and good prophet"). Fifty prayers were ordained by Allah to be said by all believers daily. On the journey back, Moses, in the sixth heaven, encouraged Muhammad to go back to the seventh heaven and request a smaller quota, since this large number would be rather impractical to execute. Ten daily prayers were deducted. Again Moses encouraged Muhammad to go back and ask for still fewer prayers, which was repeated three times, until five daily were set for observance. This Muhammad did not dare query.

The legend also provides teachings on what to expect at the time of death. According to legend, Muhammad states that the ladder on which he ascended to heaven was "that to which the dying man looks when death approaches." A similar concept is described in medieval literature where, at death, the soul is escorted by angels through seven heavens to the throne of God where it receives a preliminary reckoning and is then returned to the grave to await Judgment day.

The following is the full account from the "Siratu'l Rasul" vs. 270-271.

After the Prophet took this night journey from Masjid al-Haram to Masjid al-Aqsa, he ascended to the upper heavens. When the Prophet and Jibril arrived at the first heaven, Jibril requested the gate to be opened. The angel assigned to that gate asked Jibril, "Who is with you?" Jibril answered, "It is Muhammad." The angel asked Jibril, "Was he dispatched? Is it time for him to ascend to the heaven?" Jibril said, "Yes." So, the gate was opened for him, and Prophet Muhammad entered the first heaven.

There, Prophet Muhammad saw Prophet Adam. To Adam's right, the Prophet saw some bodies, and to Adam's left, other bodies. If Adam would look to his right he would laugh, and if he would look to his left he would cry. Adam was seeing the souls of his descendants. Those on his right were his descendants who would die as believers and those on his left were his descendants who would die as non-believers.

Then the Prophet ascended to the second heaven. In this second heaven was where Prophet Muhammad saw Prophets Jesus and John the Baptist. Jesus and John the Baptist are cousins; their mothers were sisters. They welcomed the Prophet and made supplication for him for good things. The Prophet ascended to the third heaven, where he found Prophet Joseph. Prophet Joseph was extremely handsome. Allah bestowed half the beauty on Joseph. Joseph received the Prophet with a warm welcome and made supplication for him for good things.

Then the Prophet ascended to the fourth heaven, where he found Prophet Enoch. Enoch welcomed the Prophet and made supplication for him for good things. In the fifth heaven, the Prophet encountered Aaron, the brother of Prophet Moses. In the sixth heaven, he encountered Prophet Moses. Each of these Prophets received Prophet Muhammad with a warm welcome and made supplication for him for good things.

Then the Prophet ascended to the seventh heaven, and that is where our Messenger saw Prophet Abraham. The Prophet saw Prophet Abraham with his back against al-Bayt al-Ma^mur. To the inhabitants of the skies, al-Bayt al-Ma^mur is like the Ka^bah is to us, the inhabitants of the earth. Every day 70,000 angels go there; then exit from it, and never return. The next day another 70,000 angels go, come out, and never return. This will continue until the Day of Judgment. In this, there is an indication as to the greatness of the numbers of the angels - their numbers are far more than the numbers of the humans and the devils together.

In the seventh heaven, Prophet Muhammad saw Sidrat al-Muntaha - a very big tree of sidr. Each of the fruits of this tree is as large as a big jar. The leaves of this tree are similar to the ears of the elephants. Sidrat al-Muntaha is an extremely beautiful tree. It is visited by butterflies made of gold. When these butterflies gather on this tree, its beauty is beyond description.

Then the Prophet ascended to what is beyond the seven skies; he entered Paradise. He saw examples of the inhabitants of Paradise and how their situation would be. He saw most of the inhabitants of Paradise are the poor people.

The Prophet saw other things on the night of his ascension. He saw Malik, the angel in charge of the Hellfire. Malik did not smile at the Prophet when he saw him, and the Prophet asked why. In answer to the Prophet's question, Jibril said, "Malik did not smile since the day Allah created him. Had he smiled for anyone, he would have smiled for you."

In Paradise, the Prophet saw some of the bounties Allah prepared for the inhabitants of Paradise. He saw the Hur ul-^In: females Allah created who are not humans or devils. They are in Paradise and will be married to those men Allah willed them to marry.

The Prophet saw the wildan ul-mukhalladun: creations of Allah who are not human, devils, or angels. They are a very beautiful creation of Allah whose appearance is like laid-out pearls. They are servants of the inhabitants of Paradise. The least in status of the People of Paradise will have 10,000 wildan ul-mukhalladun to serve him. Each one of them would carry a tray of gold in one hand and a tray of silver in the other hand.

The Prophet saw the Throne, which is the ceiling of Paradise. The Throne is the largest creation of Allah in size; Allah did not create anything bigger in size than it. The seven heavens and the earth in comparison to the Kursiyy are like a ring thrown in a desert, and the Kursiyy in comparison to the Throne is like a ring thrown in a desert. The seven heavens and the earth in comparison to the Throne are like a seed of mustard compared to the ocean. Allah created the Throne as a sign of his Power and he did not create the Throne to sit on it.

Allah created the Throne to show his Power. It is carried by four angels, and on the Day of Judgment, it will be carried by eight. The Prophet said he was permitted to speak about one of these angels who carry the Throne. In describing this angel, the Prophet told us the distance between his ear lobe and shoulder is the distance a fast-flying bird would cover in 700 years.

Then the Prophet ascended beyond Paradise. He reached a place where he heard the creaking of the pens used by the angels who are copying from the Preserved Tablet. It is at that location Prophet was given the obligation of the five Obligatory Prayers.

At first, Allah obligated fifty prayers. When Prophet Muhammad encountered Moses, Moses told him to make supplication to his Lord to ease the obligation of fifty prayers, because his nation could not handle that. Moses said, "I have experience with the people of Israel, and I know your nation cannot bear that." So the Prophet asked his Lord to lessen these prayers for his people. Five prayers were eliminated. Once again, Moses told the Prophet to ask Allah to lessen the number of prayers. Allah did. Nine times the Prophet made supplication to Allah to lessen these prayers - until these prayers were lessened to five Obligatory Prayers. So Prophet Moses was a great benefit to us. Had we been obligated to pray fifty prayers a day, this would have been a difficult matter for us.

Also, Allah told the Prophet a good deed would be written for the person who intends to do a good deed, even if he did not do it. Also, the good deed performed would be registered for he who performs it as at least ten good deeds - up to 700 good deeds. For some people, Allah would multiply the reward of their deeds more than that. Additionally, if one performs a bad deed, it is registered for him as one bad deed; yet for the one who inclines towards committing a bad deed and then refrains from committing it, a good deed would be registered for him. Here, one should note the difference between two matters. If a thought crossed a person's mind about doing something sinful, and this person wavered in this thinking, i.e., considered whether he should do it or not, then he refrained from doing this for the sake of Allah, this is written as a good deed. However, if a person has the firm intention in his heart that he wants to commit a sin, it would be written for him as a sin, even if he does not do it. "Although Muhammad's ascension, considered strictly, was a unique privilege, it became common for religious writers to speak of devotional practices (from ordinary ritual prayer to the ecstatic invocations and dances of the Sufi brotherhoods) as ways to accompany the Prophet on his journey to heaven. The Miraj was a favorite theme of Sufi poetry and art. Jalaluddin Rumi, the thirteenth-century Sufi poet, declares that the aim of spiritual life is to "die before you die" and, like Muhammad, to ascend to that intimacy with God which he has withheld from angels and yet granted to his servants and lovers.
 

[email protected]

New Member
Messages
17
Re: Islam

Yes, that is an accurate story. Now this makes me wonder. Since heaven is not physically reachable from our universe, when judgement day arrives, will we be astral travelling to heaven? That is an interesting idea.
 

astralsailor

Junior Member
Messages
35
Re: Islam

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"[email protected]\")</div>
Yes, that is an accurate story. Now this makes me wonder. Since heaven is not physically reachable from our universe, when judgement day arrives, will we be astral travelling to heaven? That is an interesting idea.[/b]

(Yes i am a Swedish Muslim)
I think heaven is reacheble by Astral Projection right now or any time...
I think that when The day of Jugement comes we will all go even if we never experienced AP. Also i think hell is a metafore for that the people who did all that mean stuff will feel the sadness and things they did. I dont really belive they will burn in a physical/non-physical fire for all eternity..
It says even in the quran that it is good to interpet somethings.. Or its really more like understading the truth.. Like reading bettwen the lines sorta...

-Your studing Alchemist Erik
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Re: Islam

Well, close to 'astral traveling'

Remember, there are 7 main Planes or levels (and so much more beyond that). the Astral Body only works here in the Physical and on the Astral Plane. Not to worry though, we have all the Bodies that correspond to all the planes needed with the Soul Body being the most rareified and the most mobile because it is not bound by the basic laws on each Plane like the body that corresponds to that Plane is.
 

astralsailor

Junior Member
Messages
35
Re: Islam

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"StarLord\")</div>
Well, close to 'astral traveling'

Remember, there are 7 main Planes or levels (and so much more beyond that). the Astral Body only works here in the Physical and on the Astral Plane. Not to worry though, we have all the Bodies that correspond to all the planes needed with the Soul Body being the most rareified and the most mobile because it is not bound by the basic laws on each Plane like the body that corresponds to that Plane is.[/b]

Yeah thats true :) It is said that the soul leavs ot go to qiammath ( The day of Jugement ) when it comes.
hehe i would like to experience the plane where i travel in my emotional body :D
 

Tenshi

New Member
Messages
24
Re: Islam

There are plenty of Christian terrorists - IRA, ETA.

Over the last 30 years or so, Britain and Spain have been more in danger of attacks by the IRA and ETA than they have of attacks from Al Qaeda.
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Re: Islam

A terrorist is just a terrorist. Ah Tenshi, don't you mean Ireland and not Britan?
Hasn't most of the IRA strikes been in Ireland?
 

pearlheartgtr

New Member
Messages
11
Re: Islam

My cousin converted to Muslim a few years ago. Good ol' white boy from Virginia, a Muslim. I have no problem with his religious choice because I do not belive in a god or satan. If it makes him happy, then so be it.

The Muslim religion has been the forefront since the terrorist attacks. But what is not to say the Christians haven't done the same or worse through the years? Except during that time there weren't plastic explosives. It has only been the last hundred or so years that women have been coming to equal footing with men in this predominately Christian society. The major difference between Christianity and Muslim is that Christians changed and molded their religion to the changing times where the Muslims kept to their antiquated beliefs.

People tend to forget the blood spilled in the name of Christianity. Just something to push away in debate or conversation. We can go into the Crusades which was basically an excuse for a bunch of nobles to pillage, plunder and rape their way to the holyland. The Spanish Inquisition was another fun period of time. How many Jews were persecuted and killed? Then the Holocaust is our most recent event that America tends to remember, though the Catholic church finally said it was wrong only a few years ago after they helped many Nazi war criminals escape trial. And with the Holocaust, Americans basically forgot about what their forefathers did to the Natives. Proud nations were all but sent to oblivian because of the proud Christian white man who invaded and wanted to conquer the saveages of the land. Adolf Hitler was a lunatic, but most disturbing is that he admired America because we just about wiped out the Injuns. Genocide at its finest hour.

In my POV, Christianity was the killing factor of this world. Civilization was up and running and on it's way to greatness until the Romans adopted Christianity. It all went to sh!t after that and it took us way too many years to recover from it. So much was lost when the Christians burned across the land. The answers to many of the questiond many of you are asking were most likely in the scrolls and ancient books that the wonderous Christians burned by the lot.

I may see some of the beliefs of the Muslims to be a bit extreme. But that observation is through the eyes of me, someone who is from this time and age of 'advancement'. But take it back to 1,500 years ago and you might say, "Hmm. I think they have a point."

--pearl
 

shane

Junior Member
Messages
91
Re: Islam

From what I could tell, Islam only differs from Christianity in the recognition of multiple prophets as oposed to one "Christ." Of course, that's just coming from the core text of the religion, so I could be wrong. That being said, different cultures are going to interpret and act upon the same religion in varying manners. That much is evident among the different Christian denominations that proliferate here in the States and the different factions among those denominations.

Those in the middle-east who preach Jihad do so in the name of a religion nearly identical to most of ours in the west. It even evolved from the same Judaic roots. Where they differ greatly is in environment, and so in culture. If all you had known your entire life was violence, would Christianity keep you peaceful? The answer to that is an obvious and resounding no.

The western "first world" nations have been the bullying seniors in the high-school that is the geopolitical environment for a long time, picking on the freshmen and taking their lunch money on a daily basis. The problem, now, is that all those freshmen have grown up... and they have guns.
 

pauli

Junior Member
Messages
141
Re: Islam

\"I am a muslim. I can clarify many thing stated here.

1. We do NOT believe in violence. Al-Qaeda and other Terrorist groups think they need to kill people for Allah. This is NOT what muslims believe.

2. Women hundereds of years back had not many rights and men were thought to control them. This has changed over time and sadly, some Islamic countries still support this theory.

3. Women are NOT required to wear hijabs (vails) over their heads. Every women has the right to choose to do so or not. It is not in the Qu'ran to do so. The reason why many woman do so is because they fear of being treated differently in Islamic States. My mother lives in the U.S.A., is also a muslim, and doesn't wear the hijab. The reason why some choose to do so is because they don't want to attract men by their looks, but instead by their personality.

4. Children are NOT taught to kill people. The acts of teaching children to do so on T.V. are just .05% of the arab societies. This shows you how bias and censored the American media is.

5. I believe strongly AGAINST suicide bombers.

6. If you go back way back in ancient history, the palestinians were in Palestine way before the Israelies. Now I do understand the British had given them a right to live there about 60 years ago, but they did this without actually having a right to do so. How would you like it if Britain gave france for example a \"right\" to take over and live in the U.S.A.? I don't think you would be too happy with it if some french man came and took over your home. I am sure you would fight for it all you can if the government didn't do anything about it.

7. Lastly, Islam is a PEACEFUL religion. We believe the opposite of what the media says. We do not believe in violence. The Qu'ran is as much peaceful as the Bible is. We must be curteous to our neighbors 5 blocks in every direction. We must treat all people equally. We pray 5 times a day and pay Zakat to the poor yearly. Don't let a few terrorist groups lead you to another thought. Terrorist groups come from ALL religions. Just because this one happened to be linked to Islam doesn't mean it is what muslims are.\"

Sorry to muck up the waters of the love fest here, but I have to wonder kutibah1 what sort of Muslim you claim to be. Are you Sunni? Shiite? Wahhabi? Litteral in your Qu'ranic, or liberal in your Qu'ranic interpretation? (sorry don't know the equivalent word here.) Or, is this just taquiyyah for the benefit of the less informed infidels on the boards. For those who wish to learn about taquiyyah, here is a site that explains what that means: http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=178 .


1. We do NOT believe in violence. Al-Qaeda and other Terrorist groups think they need to kill people for Allah. This is NOT what muslims believe.

Well, maybe you do not believe in violence, but there are a lot of your practitioners who do and/or are willing to stand by quietly, while others do the dirty work of killing the infidels in Jihad.

2. Women hundereds of years back had not many rights and men were thought to control them. This has changed over time and sadly, some Islamic countries still support this theory.

There may be some truth to this in some of the more "modern" countries. And women are beginning to see some freedoms they have not seen before, but those are piddling in the overall scheme of things. It still happens all the time in Islamic countries that women are abused badly, when they do not follow the whims of their men in his decision making processes. If she doesn't comply with him, then the beatings begin. In fact, in Egypt, there was a show telling the men the proper way to beat their wives - the size of the stick allowed - and that this is a necessary and proper way of "training" one's wife in the Qur'anic way. http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=arc...ea=sr&ID=SR2704

Rape is also a pretty common "ugly little secret." Women, who only count as one half a person, under Shariah law, cannot testify in a rape case at all. In order for her to prevail in a court case on rape, again under Shariah law, there have to be four men who witnessed and will testify to the rape in court. If there aren't four men (and remember women aren't allowed to testify here - otherwise eight women could theoretically do this), who witnessed the PENETRATION, then the woman had better keep her mouth shut. If not, she will be accused of being complicit in the act, whether she asked for it or not. If she does not have the witnesses, then she will be to blame for the rape and sentenced as either an adulterer (if she is married) or as a single woman who has engaged in consentual pre-marital sex. This leaves her open to being killed by a male family member in order to assuage their broken sense of "honor." Another dirty little secret going on, under the wire, are surgeries to repair the hymen. These can be found for the right price if one needs to find a doctor who will do it.

3. Women are NOT required to wear hijabs (vails) over their heads. Every women has the right to choose to do so or not. It is not in the Qu'ran to do so. The reason why many woman do so is because they fear of being treated differently in Islamic States. My mother lives in the U.S.A., is also a muslim, and doesn't wear the hijab. The reason why some choose to do so is because they don't want to attract men by their looks, but instead by their personality.

I would say this is partially true. Yes, the women choose to wear it in order to NOT ATTRACT the wrong sort of attention. But really, what choice do they have when many of the men, especially those who live in countries where polygamy is the name of the game, are pretty much sex starved, and where the men are taught that they can have sex without consequences, as much as they want whenever, but the women cannot reciprocate in like manner. Any woman who goes outside without a hijab will most likely be viewed as a slut. Therefore, the women choose to be viewed without being seen as a s-x toy for the man's amusement. Wow! Big choice.

4. Children are NOT taught to kill people. The acts of teaching children to do so on T.V. are just .05% of the arab societies. This shows you how bias and censored the American media is.

I think you are underestimating here. Yes, there are those societies who do not teach their children, explicitly, to kill people. But when they view their parents taking pleasure in events, such as 9/11 or the Madrid bombings or anything of like kind, they get the message that killing isn't such a bad thing.

5. I believe strongly AGAINST suicide bombers.

I am truly happy to hear this. I only wish that those Muslims who do, and there are a good share, echoed your sentiments.

6. If you go back way back in ancient history, the palestinians were in Palestine way before the Israelies. Now I do understand the British had given them a right to live there about 60 years ago, but they did this without actually having a right to do so. How would you like it if Britain gave france for example a "right" to take over and live in the U.S.A.? I don't think you would be too happy with it if some french man came and took over your home. I am sure you would fight for it all you can if the government didn't do anything about it.

Ah yes, the historical revisionism that Islam puts into place with its spread. Can you point me to any credible source that will back up your assertion here? Jews/children of Israel/whatever you wish to call them came into the land in about 1400 to 1200 B.C.E. The Philistines (who were Greek Sea faring people) landed in the Gaza strip about 100 to 200 years later - after the Jewish people conquered the land of Canaan. Mohammed's first Jihad happened in the 600's A.D. (C.E.) The jihad that swept out of the Arabian desert around 612 A.D. conquered peaceful Christian, Zoroastrian and Coptic lands - slaughtering, plundering and pillaging villages throughout the Mediterranean area. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed in these Jihadi raids. Women were taken into slavery, men, from the age of 12 and up were killed and cities were plundered. And all of this happening before the Crusades even happened. (Muslims want us in the west to feel guilty for the Crusades even after we have apologized for them over and over and over again, but they have as yet to apologize to the Christians, Zoroastrians and Hindus for their wars of conquest.) Oh, getting back... The land, which was once called Judea and was principally Jewish and Samarian, was conquered by the Muslims around 800 A.D. Until that point, NO MUSLIMS - or very few lived there. Jews and Samaritans had been on that land for way many more years than Muslims. Palestinians, as a group, did not exist before 1964. The first people to call themselves "Palestinians," if you wish to use that word, were Jews. Around 1948 there were three basic groups in the former land called "Palestine," the Jews, both native and imported, the Christian Arabs and the Muslim Arabs - many of whom were transplants themselves from the Arab world. The land was "owned" by absentee landowners, who really didn't give a squat for the deserts and swamps in that region. Most of the "Palestinian Arabs" only arrived on the scene once the "crazy Jewish settlers" arrived and bought the most worthless tracts and made it into a garden. Then, all of the sudden, the Arabs in the lands around came and squatted amongst them. The "Palestinians" and there cause was created by an Egyptian Arab by the name of Yassir Arafat at the behest of the EU, EAD. Prior to 1964, they didn't even exist, except as a group of people whose only contact with the land was primarily squatting there. There has never been a point in time when the Jews did not live in the land currently known as Israel - from the time of 1400 to 1200 B.C.

But hey, who cares about history, much less about getting the facts straight. When your religion tells you that all other religions are really a derivative of theirs, even though theirs came at the end of the historical time line, then history really doesn't mean a thing.

7. Lastly, Islam is a PEACEFUL religion. We believe the opposite of what the media says. We do not believe in violence. The Qu'ran is as much peaceful as the Bible is. We must be curteous to our neighbors 5 blocks in every direction. We must treat all people equally. We pray 5 times a day and pay Zakat to the poor yearly. Don't let a few terrorist groups lead you to another thought. Terrorist groups come from ALL religions. Just because this one happened to be linked to Islam doesn't mean it is what muslims are."
Yes, Islam is PEACEFUL... IF YOU ARE A MUSLIM. If, however, you are not, then it is a religion of war. Islam's territories are bloody at the edges and have always been. Or are you claiming you don't believe in Jihad or the dar al Islam (world of Islam) and dar al-harb (world of war). If so, you are jettisoning much of Islamic theology and it's teachings. Anyone who has not yet submitted to Islam's dominance has three choices: 1. convert and become Muslim, 2. pay the Jizyah - poll tax for Muslims - which allows you to be a second class citizen within the Umma, and therefore exploitable or 3. to die, if you have any sense of courage and won't accept coversion or the life of a second class exploitable citizen. Does anyone even consider what happened to all of the Christian/Jewish/Zoroastrian/Bhuddist/Hindu communities that used to exist in the areas in which Islam has complete dominance? They disappeared. Why? Many converted, many more died and some "got out of Dodge." Can a non-Muslim visit Mecca? Can a non-Muslim stay in Saudi Arabia for more than three days, unless they are working on a government working pass and stationed in a specific area that is provided for their benefit? Can a non-Muslim build a new church, temple or synagogue in a Muslim country? Can they repair a church, temple or synagogue in a Muslim country? (The answer to these last two questions is and emphatic "NO.") And yet, the Muslims come into the western countries and build a mosques whenever and wherever they want ... Hmm. Something seems pretty unbalanced in that equation.

I don't mind that other people have differences of opinions on these boards, but outright lies, obfuscations, apologetics, taquiyyah and or kitman is not something I stomach very well. That is the reason why I decided to post again.
 

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