Debate John Titor Alleged Predictions and Are They Real or Not

Peregrini

Member
Messages
465
This is the "mission statement" for this thread. As is always the case, it is subject to Numenorean7's approval.
I will post this much to allow him to decide. Numenorean7, I highlighted a part for your approval separately just in case you don't want us to do it that way.
Well, since no one on the Titor fan bus wants to, or maybe more likely can, offer any "predictions" made by Titor that have verifiably come to pass, I will help them out myself.
I will begin examining all of the "predictions" made by Titor while he was here.
They will each be subjected to the scientific method. A search for evidence that confirms them or dispels them.
In short, I will debunk each one and if I come across one that truly can not be disproved... we will call it "possibly not BS".
If I am bored with Titor, Why do I do this? Three reasons.
First, anytime I or anyone else dares to ask a question that might discredit Titor in any way, the fanatics go ballistic. They claim I/we attack them. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder but I feel they attack and I/we respond to their attacks.
Second, it's time. Titor believers have their way in nearly every thread about time travel, and some that are not even about TT. They can not refrain from inserting Titor into most conversations and if I or someone else comments about Titor... off we go... we're ridiculing them, attacking them, or any other such claim they wish to make and cry to the Admin to make us stop and go to a debunking thread. Well, I have no problem with that in the least. That is why I am starting this thread ahead of their cries.
Third, there are people who are new here and some that just drop by while searching Titor and other TT claims. They, like bomberman stated, are not sure if they believe or not. They are searching for answers and some semblance of the "truth". As it stands now, with the believers refusing to allow any disagreement with their fantasy, and only a few debate threads which loose continuity from the original discussion by being in a different thread and away from the incorrect statements made by believers that only a one-sided narrative is being told. In this thread all posters should, post the permalink to the post you are discussing and also post the permalink of your discussion back in the original thread. That allows for some way to connect the statements and replies when they can not be in the same thread. This way you don't have to continually re-post a whole discussion. We can avoid needless repetition.
On Dec. 4th 2011, I started a debunking thread for this very reason. At the time I intended for it to be a lighthearted debunk of "Who perpetrated the John Titor hoax?" Believers got bent out of shape for a little while but it slowly faded until a book salesman showed up who only wanted to sell his book and argue what the definition of "is", is. I entertained myself with him for awhile but got bored and let it fade away again. It pops back up now and then as new people catch up with their reading.
Who Perpetrated the John Titor Hoax? | Paranormalis
This thread can be fun for those who do not believe Titor was a real TT'er. It can be educational for someone new here or just passing thru... maybe even entice passers-by to stay for awhile, and it might be a nightmare for those that do believe.
As in my earlier thread, everyone is welcome. Everyone can have their say but, don't get upset if a reply isn't what you hoped for.

The first "prediction" I will investigate will be Titor's Y2K disaster prediction and "Did Titor's time traveling avert the disaster from happening?"
If you want to, put your 2 cents in concerning this thread. I will not begin until this thread is approved, if it is.
 

Num7

Administrator
Staff
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12,376
I'm comfortable with this thread, as it's already tagged as a debate and I believe that your intentions are honest.

Don't forget, it's a debate!
 

Ren

Senior Member
Messages
1,088
Deal me in.
O.k. This is what I purpose.
John Titor met with the guy who designed the calendar of the IBM5100. He simply helped him to find a solution to Y2K which was included in the design of this calendar. John Titor also met with other designers on a project called Mercury in order to make the IBM5100 truly unique with capabilities even computers in 2012 still do not have. Would you like to tell me what those capabilities are?

John Titor met a woman named Sam and gave her some critical information that allowed her to orchestrate an attack plan to lessen the impact of Y2K on the infrastructure mostly through hardware upgrades.

I suspect that John Titor is relaying messages through quite a few people on a few forums, even me, and even you. Right now. So really, it doesn't matter if you believe he is a time traveler or not. It only matters that you relay his messages. The entire world depends on it.
 

Peregrini

Member
Messages
465
I suppose I could start and end this debate with one little sentence;
The Y2K disaster, predicted by a time traveler, believed to be the same person that posted as John Titor, did not happen.
But, where's the fun in that?
I want to begin with Titor's Y2K prediction for two reasons.
First, it apparently was the "first" of his predictions. That is, provided the sender of the faxes to Art Bell was the same time traveler.
In the 1998 faxes to Art Bell, the alleged time traveler said, "Y2K is a disaster. Many people freeze to death trying to get to warmer weather. The gov. tries to keep power by instituting martial law..."
(I fixed "martial", it was spelled wrong)
Second, Titor alluded to being the one who "accidentally" fixed/averted the Y2K disaster.
02/05/01 11:28
Yes, the Pearl Harbor example relates to Y2K. Have you considered that I might already have accidentally screwed up your worldline?

03/24/2001 06:19 pm
What amazes me is why no one here wonders why Y2K didn’t hit them at all?

Let's look at the first part, the Y2K problem it's self.
Well to begin with there wasn't one, so to speak. Yes, there was a lot of scrambling around to fix it. The "it" being the 20 ton elephant in the room for the previous 20+ years. There were no large scale users of IBM, or any of the other manufactures of computer equipment, that wasn't aware of the looming problem. Well, except for one.
What no one wanted to do was spend the time and money necessary to fix it until the last minute. Some did start earlier, but the problem was known for all of the 90's by major users ie, Banks, Utilities, Government, etc.
Your home computer was not in any real jeopardy since most PC's built in the 90's were already able to avoid the date problem, the EPROM's had already been programmed to avoid the glitch. Might I be making less of the problem that was experienced? A little maybe, but I was not at all affected by it, as with most, if not all, of you also. I am sure someone will claim they had a lot to do with the "fix" and that may well be true, provided they too, are an IT expert. My source, for my overall information on Y2K and in case of any technical replies to this post, was actually hands on fixing the problem. He explained to me how, for the most part, it was a labor intensive fix that kept him and a team of techs busy for 5 years.
The first person known to publicly address this issue was Bob Bemer, who had noticed it in 1958 as a result of work on genealogical software. He spent the next twenty years trying to make programmers, IBM, the U.S. government and the ISO aware of the problem, with little result. This included the recommendation that the COBOL PICTURE clause should be used to specify four digit years for dates.[8] Despite magazine articles on the subject from 1970 onward, the majority of programmers and managers only started recognizing Y2K as a looming problem in the mid-1990s, but even then, inertia and complacency caused it to be mostly unresolved until the last few years of the decade. In 1989, Erik Naggum was instrumental in ensuring that Internet mail used four digit representations of years by including a strong recommendation to this effect in the Internet host requirements document RFC 1123.[9]
8. "Key computer coding creator dies". The Washington Post. Retrieved 25 September 2011.
9. "Requirements for Internet Hosts – Application and Support". tools.ietf.org.
Year 2000 problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On to the allegation that Titor's actions fixed the problem before there was a problem.
First, you have to believe Titor was a time traveler. I do not but we can skip past that and look at the "story".
The story goes that;
Titor traveled back to 1975 to get an IBM 5100 from his grandfather, a member of the 5100 development team, and while he was there he influenced his grandfather to look into the Y2K date problem.
As a result of this "intervention" on Titor's part the disaster was avoided.
Well, to begin with , it wasn't avoided. We did go through the fix. The IBM machines were affected as much as any others. Wouldn't any reasonable person suspect that if IBM had such information, they would have taken advantage of it and insured their systems would be built to avoid future date problems and then market them as such? Again, only one manufacturer did so.
Someone may say; "The impact was lessened, it could have been worse."
A completely subjective position that simply can not be verified.
I stated twice that one manufacturer had no reason to worry about the Y2K problem. That manufacturer was...

The only one who had the foresight to avoid the Y2K situation was The MacOS operating system and Apple Macintosh computers. All MacOS operating system date and time utilities have correctly handled the year 2000 since the introduction of the Macintosh, on January 24, 1984.

So, if there was any time travel involved with the Y2K problem, it seems to me, it was by Steve Jobs grandson who I don't think Titor claimed to be.
 

mabus

New Member
Messages
2
yea the old bios's would stop in 2035/36.

I remember back in 97/98 they stopped at that year, but in 99 they changed. specifically the phoenix bios. and ummm that other popular bios was it called american trend? i think so, can't remember.
 

Peregrini

Member
Messages
465
AMERICA'S CIVIL WAR
Let's look at another of Titor's failed predictions. The civil war of 2004.
First let's put away the favorite defense used by Titor's fans.
"Titor's prediction hasn't failed, it was only delayed by "his" intervention in "our" time line." The convenient alternate time line. Titor put forward this extenuation himself to account for potential discrepancies in our future and what he claimed to be his. A 2.5% divergence factor. Just what the hell does that mean? 2.5% of what? Everything that can or will or does happen? Just how do you calculate 2.5% of all the possible outcomes of everything in the Universe? As I read Titor's posts from the several places he posted "during his brief visit" to our time line, I couldn't help but wonder why the antagonists didn't make a little more of this alleged phenomenon. As for me, and all of you as well, I live in "this" time line in "this" Universe and for all-intents-and-purposes, there is NO OTHER. If someone makes a prediction or "comment" as to what "my" future holds, and it does not occur at the appointed time, it is a "false prediction/comment". To say, "It did happen in an infinite number, of an infinite amount, of other time lines" is simply absurd. If "alternate time lines" is your argument that Titor's comments are accurate, save it.

In this discussion I will include the Olympics prediction since it is a small issue and connected to the civil war prediction.

TimeTravel_0
01/29/01 11:25 AM
((Are the Olympics still being played in your time?))
As a result of the many conflicts, no, there were no official Olympics after 2004. However, it appears they may be revived in 2040.

Well, if we don't count the Olympics in Turin, Italy in 2006, or in Beijing, China in 2008, or in Vancouver, Canada in 2010, or in London, England in 2012, then he could be right about "this one"... or not. I must admit though, I personally wouldn't miss them if they did go away.

Now, The Civil War! or lack there-of

TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 11 November 2000 18:56
I would use the word "elections" a bit cautiously. Perhaps its easier now to see a civil war in your future?

Elections are challenged, objected to, and disagreed with, by the loosing side in nearly every election. It has never resulted in a civil war at any time, past or present.

TimeTravel_0
unregistered posted 12 November 2000 16:41
I am here for personal reasons. For a few months now, I have bee trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the United States in 2005. Does that seem more likely now? Actually it’s quite amazing to see what’s happening. I have been trying to get people to pay attention for the last few months but to see it unfold is very interesting. Before I leave, I’ll try and post my report.

Again, relating anger over an election result to a civil war is overreaching.

I am curious… will anyone be upset if Florida’s votes are not counted in the Electoral College because of the current “confusion”?
Here we have another minor failed prediction. Florida's electoral college votes were counted.


Posted by John Titor on 02-01-2001 08:36 AM
The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over. The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII.

Hmmm... Didn't happen... not even close... still not consumed and it's 2012... still have to wait on 2015 I guess.

Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 11:28 AM
As far as the war goes, my best advice is to find at least 5 people within 100 miles of you that you trust with your life.
((Can you give us some brief personal stories of your past? For instance, in relation to history what were some of your growing up sagas?))
I was born in 1998 so I do share some childhood memories with all of you. I remember going to Disney World at Christmas and I remember going to the beach in Daytona.
When the civil 'conflict' started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.
From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the 'cities' and the 'country' was well defined. My father made a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems and sailing 'commodities' up and down the coast of Florida. I spent most of my time helping him.
Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun infantry unit in 2011. I served with the "Fighting Diamondbacks" for about 4 years. (Hearing in my right ear isn't as good as I would like it). The civil war ended in 2015 when Russia attacked the U.S. cities (our enemy), China and Europe. As unusual and bad as my childhood might seem, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Nope, still didn't happen. (There is a tidbit of detail about JT in this post. Can the "experts" determine what it is?)

Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 11:51 PM
((4. John alludes to a civil war being started between the Democrats and Republicans. Later, this escalates into WW3 and he mentions that it is a "good" thing for our soceity. ( 3 billion people dead a "good" thing?))
I don't believe I ever said the war was between Democrats and Republicans. If I am incorrect, please point that out. It doesn't exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression. Yes, I think the war would be good for society and I would be happy to debate that with you.

War is good for a society... it may be possible that he is not a liberal. He just "sounds like" any other commune hippy of the time.

((7. John mentions the Big War(2015) was between the Cities of America (the enemy of John) and Russia, China, etc.(so not only do we have a civil war but now we have a war between the city folk and rural folk in the US, AND a world war))
Hmmm...are you familiar with the Russian partisan movement in WWII?

In the immediate aftermath of Operation Barbarossa in June 1941, people in certain parts of Russia saw the Germans as liberators from the tyranny of Joseph Stalin as opposed to an evil invading conqueror. When the numerous atrocities against the people of western Russia started, attitudes changed and many turned to the resistance movement as a way to help defeat Germany.
The Russian Resistance Movement
I can only guess now but perhaps Titor means this one?

((8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???))
It's 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant... we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict. The first U.S. civil war lasted 4 years and the English civil war lasted 6. How long is too long?

No maneuvering or armed conflicts that I am aware of.

Posted by John Titor on 02-27-2001 05:25 PM
((You say the civil war lasts from 2004 to 2008 and then the short big one in 2015. What do the years from 2008 to 2015 look like? How long does WWIII last.))
I'm not sure I said that exactly. By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep. Western instability during the conflict leads to the attack in 2015. WWIII is very short with a longer period of mop up.

Just to be sure, I checked out my "doorstep" this morning but there was still no war, just 2 angry squirrels.

I just want to throw this little gem in before I close. It's too small to debate on it's own.


((9. John mentions that the mechanical typewriter is a major machine again in the future, but in another post says the Internet still exists and is widely used.
( Who builds typewriters anymore and who last used the typewriter in a most infamous way? Hint: he lived in a one room cabin in Montana and hated technology and soceity))
Actually, what I said was, "you may be surprised at how many people use typewriters." I don't understand the conflict. What's wrong with typewriters? At least you don't have to plug them in.

It is good to know that at least some office supply stores will survive the devastation following a civil "and" world war. Manual typewriters are few and far between even now... just like the IBM 5100... but that's another story.

Suffice it to say, There has not been a civil war. We are no closer to one now than we were in 2000-2001 or 2004-2005 or 2008 or 2010 and 2012 is almost over. I can hardly wait for November 7th, to hear new complaints about the election and how we are going to have a civil war soon. Again.

The Titor references in this post were taken from the following sources:
Time Travel Institute... Time Travel Discussion... Re-prints of Titor
Time Travel Institute
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24232098/Time Travel Paradoxes.doc
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24232098/Parallel Universe.mht
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24232098/Topics Limited to 11 Pages.htm
Archive of Post to Post
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24232098/Post to Post I am from 2036.htm

The tidbit on JT... Titor is most likely left handed.
 

Peregrini

Member
Messages
465
If anyone has a prediction they would like to expose or defend, please feel free to here. If anyone has one they would like to see discussed but don't want to do it their self, post the prediction and I or someone else will look into it.
I will try to post a new prediction each Sunday until I run out of predictions to discuss. If I miss any, please let me know.
 

Einstein

Temporal Engineer
Messages
5,367
Here is a prediction for you. It is my belief that the John Titor believers are actually government disinformationists. And will eventually be exposed for who they are. But in reality, it is their job to draw away any real discussions about real time travel events that are regularly occurring all around us.
 

JTFriend

Member
Messages
219
Most all of John's information has unfolded on our worldline. I'm sorry, but the government has more important things to do like plan how to kill all of us than to spend time trolling a forum. The JT information I think upset some people, men especially it seems, because you are jealous of him and wish you too could work in a high technology job. But in order to do so you would have to agree to live in one of the Tiger Mother communities John describes and not have much of social life in order to do your homework. Admit it, you wish you were John Titor.
 

Peregrini

Member
Messages
465
Most all of John's information has unfolded on our worldline.
Please, feel free to elaborate. Frankly, I can't think of any.

I'm sorry, but the government has more important things to do like plan how to kill all of us than to spend time trolling a forum.
This is the typical conspiracy theorist's remark. I would really like to have it explained to me, "Just why would the Government want to "kill" the source of it's funding?"

The JT information I think upset some people, men especially it seems, because you are jealous of him and wish you too could work in a high technology job. But in order to do so you would have to agree to live in one of the Tiger Mother communities John describes and not have much of social life in order to do your homework.
I guess it's like the Jack Nicholson line in As Good As It Gets when asked how he writes about (understands) women so well, "I think of a man and take away all reason and accountability."
As far as a high tech job goes, I don't suppose an Industrial Chemical Technician counts?
Also, I lived in a modest 3 bedroom home while I worked, attended college full time, and raised 4 children as a single parent. I'm not sure what a "Tiger Mother community" is? You did get the social life part "almost" right.

Admit it, you wish you were John Titor.
I really do not know why "I" would want to be a phony time traveler?
 

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