TheSerbRyder_ReTurns
Member
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Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 11:09 AM
John,
I am certainly not uncomfortable in thinking that you are a fraud, although it would bring me (and others) great comfort if you could prove yourself.
You chose only to reply to my statement of the moral obligation to help others if you knew they were going to die, (but still not directly, as I was saying that if you knew someone who was going to be in a life-threatening situation, especially a family member or friend, it's your duty to get them out of it...I was not talking about people who knew of their imminent deaths...and your 1941 example was not clear...
Yet you didn't bother to reply to me when I said that you were being redundant when you say that your wish is to get others to believe that time travel is a possibility. Again, I will say, that the whole premise of this board is based on the paranormal, and if anything, most of us *already* believe that time travel is a possibility, ncluding myself...so your many posts on this board are on the basis of redundancy.
Again I will ask: Tell us something that is morally neutral, like a near-future event in Hollywood or politics...something...come on, I am giving you chance after chance, I want to beleive...
I am trying to be objective about this, but as you continually evade and dodge the real questions, you become less and less credible.
when lib asked me what i remember, i said i remember him dodging my questions!!!
i did have more to say about lets just say, a charging and simmering, of energy, that i could hear, but not with my ears, yet it said error, so since i go with the flow, i feel ill leave it vague, cause those that need to know will know what im talking about
im gonna continue as i find more and ill post the first question that led to this, decided to show this first, cause of my response to lib earlier in the chat, when asked what i remember...
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 09:42 AM
OK, this John Titor guy obviously is really into science fiction, a scientist, or is actually a TT'er.
Trust me, I would *really* love to believe that you are from the future. So as Mike suggested, instead of going on about fantastic time machine components and WW3, why not actually gain some credibility by correctly telling NEAR future events? Indeed, you are very convincing with your stories of what you claim will be, but unless you actually *prove* who you claim to be, quit wasting our time...you may as well be beating your head against the wall.
Although, if you consistently tell of near-future events, you will rightly gain all our respect, and we will be hanging off your every word...
As I said, I want to beleive, but don't give us the typical "I don't need to prove myself, I am not here to do that" Well you should be!...Why come on here and spend all that time with your stories, if everyone discounts you as a crackpot. If you want us to actually *listen* to you, then prove yourself! I know that the *first* thing that I would do if I claimed to be a time traveller, is *consistently* tell of *near*-future events...whether it's politics or entertainment...just give us *anything* that we can all relate to...
I don't mean to sound cynical and negative, but if you want us to beleive you, then just do what I suggest, and quit being so evasive.
Thanks.
[Edited by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 at 10:07 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:09 AM
Yes, I age and my hair and nails grow at normal rates. Please keep in mind that gravity distortion does involve some dilation effects but “jumping” between worldlines are timelike trips, not spacelike trips. The air is about the same although I do smell and taste industrial odors here my parents cannot. The food in the future is grown and raised naturally inside the community structure. This is done primarily for safety reasons. I am amazed at the risks people here are willing to take with processed food. All of the food I eat here is grown and prepared by myself or my family. Unfortunately, I do not know if we are acquainted on my worldline. Yes, love is a challenge. What’s harder is knowing you could go back and correct a mistake but at the cost of the “you” on that worldline you want to live your life over again on.
The questions about the president and space travel are reasonable but now we come to a conflict between physics and ethics. First, the ethics:
I have seen a television program about a man who is able to speak with the dead. When I watch the show, I am more afraid about the possibility that what he is doing is real not weather or not he is doing it. Since I will be leaving this worldline in the coming year, I could easily tell you that the President lives or dies in the next four years. In fact, I could probably find some way to even charge you for it. When the day comes for my “prediction” to be realized it will either happen or not. If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment is crippled by your acceptance of me as a “knower of all things” and gifted with the ability to tell the future. If I am wrong, then everything I have said that might possibly have made you think about your world in a different way is suddenly discredited. I do not want either. Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality. You are able to change your worldine for better or worse just as I am. Although this will make me a far less interesting time traveler, these are the rules I personally try to hold to:
1. I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.
2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information.
3. I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being. I will not disclose names or events associated with individuals.
Now for the physics: The grandfather paradox is impossible. In fact, all paradox is impossible. The Everett-Wheeler-Graham or multiple world theory is correct. All possible quantum states, events, possibilities and outcomes are real, eventual and occurring. The chances of everything happening someplace at sometime in the superverse is 100%. (For all you scientists out there, if Schrodinger’s cat had a time machine, he might not be in the box at all.)
Therefore, there is a worldline where you are alive and another worldline where you have gone back in time to kill your relative and the you on the new worldline won’t be born but “you” the killer is still running around there. Differences between worldlines are measured from the perspective of the time traveler in terms of divergence percentage. The higher the divergence, the more “un-like” your destination worldline looks like compared to your worldline of origin.
Therefore, any “prediction” I might make has a slight chance of being incorrect anyway and you now have the ability to act on it based on what I’ve said. Can you stop the war before it gets here? Sure. Will you do it? Probably not.
As far as space travel goes... no, we are not on Mars yet but we’re trying very hard so we can avoid another “Hell’s Kitchen” outcome from an overpopulated Earth
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 10:26 AM
John,
As I read more and more of your posts, I am admittedly intrigued, but increasingly annoyed by your insistance.
OK, fine, there are ethical issues, relating to lotto numbers and gambling, so tell us something like how many will be found dead in the earthquake in India. Tell us
something that happens in politics on a national level.
Surely you can tell us *something* that has a neutral moral effect on society.
You stated:
"Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality"
Tell us something we don't know!! Look at what message board you are on!! How redundant can one be? Of course it's not unreasonable that most of us on here certainly think that time travel is a possibility!!..come on...
"2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information"
Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.
John, it's becoming clearer to me that you are simply a fraud...how sad indeed...you can still save yourself, but you better do it soon.
Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:53 AM
Perhaps it would be better if you just considered me a fraud. I really don’t have a problem with that. If that were the case, could we then have discussions that you were comfortable with?
((Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.))
I can think of a couple of examples.
If the Egyptians knew the Red Sea was going to drown them, do you think they would have pursued Moses?
If you could go back in time to 1941 and tell the radar operators to take a second look at the radar screen on December 7th, would you? Before you say yes and accept that parade in your honor down main street, perhaps you should go forward in time and see if the U.S still
John,
I am certainly not uncomfortable in thinking that you are a fraud, although it would bring me (and others) great comfort if you could prove yourself.
You chose only to reply to my statement of the moral obligation to help others if you knew they were going to die, (but still not directly, as I was saying that if you knew someone who was going to be in a life-threatening situation, especially a family member or friend, it's your duty to get them out of it...I was not talking about people who knew of their imminent deaths...and your 1941 example was not clear...
Yet you didn't bother to reply to me when I said that you were being redundant when you say that your wish is to get others to believe that time travel is a possibility. Again, I will say, that the whole premise of this board is based on the paranormal, and if anything, most of us *already* believe that time travel is a possibility, ncluding myself...so your many posts on this board are on the basis of redundancy.
Again I will ask: Tell us something that is morally neutral, like a near-future event in Hollywood or politics...something...come on, I am giving you chance after chance, I want to beleive...
I am trying to be objective about this, but as you continually evade and dodge the real questions, you become less and less credible.
when lib asked me what i remember, i said i remember him dodging my questions!!!
i did have more to say about lets just say, a charging and simmering, of energy, that i could hear, but not with my ears, yet it said error, so since i go with the flow, i feel ill leave it vague, cause those that need to know will know what im talking about
im gonna continue as i find more and ill post the first question that led to this, decided to show this first, cause of my response to lib earlier in the chat, when asked what i remember...
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 09:42 AM
OK, this John Titor guy obviously is really into science fiction, a scientist, or is actually a TT'er.
Trust me, I would *really* love to believe that you are from the future. So as Mike suggested, instead of going on about fantastic time machine components and WW3, why not actually gain some credibility by correctly telling NEAR future events? Indeed, you are very convincing with your stories of what you claim will be, but unless you actually *prove* who you claim to be, quit wasting our time...you may as well be beating your head against the wall.
Although, if you consistently tell of near-future events, you will rightly gain all our respect, and we will be hanging off your every word...
As I said, I want to beleive, but don't give us the typical "I don't need to prove myself, I am not here to do that" Well you should be!...Why come on here and spend all that time with your stories, if everyone discounts you as a crackpot. If you want us to actually *listen* to you, then prove yourself! I know that the *first* thing that I would do if I claimed to be a time traveller, is *consistently* tell of *near*-future events...whether it's politics or entertainment...just give us *anything* that we can all relate to...
I don't mean to sound cynical and negative, but if you want us to beleive you, then just do what I suggest, and quit being so evasive.
Thanks.
[Edited by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 at 10:07 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:09 AM
Yes, I age and my hair and nails grow at normal rates. Please keep in mind that gravity distortion does involve some dilation effects but “jumping” between worldlines are timelike trips, not spacelike trips. The air is about the same although I do smell and taste industrial odors here my parents cannot. The food in the future is grown and raised naturally inside the community structure. This is done primarily for safety reasons. I am amazed at the risks people here are willing to take with processed food. All of the food I eat here is grown and prepared by myself or my family. Unfortunately, I do not know if we are acquainted on my worldline. Yes, love is a challenge. What’s harder is knowing you could go back and correct a mistake but at the cost of the “you” on that worldline you want to live your life over again on.
The questions about the president and space travel are reasonable but now we come to a conflict between physics and ethics. First, the ethics:
I have seen a television program about a man who is able to speak with the dead. When I watch the show, I am more afraid about the possibility that what he is doing is real not weather or not he is doing it. Since I will be leaving this worldline in the coming year, I could easily tell you that the President lives or dies in the next four years. In fact, I could probably find some way to even charge you for it. When the day comes for my “prediction” to be realized it will either happen or not. If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment is crippled by your acceptance of me as a “knower of all things” and gifted with the ability to tell the future. If I am wrong, then everything I have said that might possibly have made you think about your world in a different way is suddenly discredited. I do not want either. Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality. You are able to change your worldine for better or worse just as I am. Although this will make me a far less interesting time traveler, these are the rules I personally try to hold to:
1. I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.
2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information.
3. I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being. I will not disclose names or events associated with individuals.
Now for the physics: The grandfather paradox is impossible. In fact, all paradox is impossible. The Everett-Wheeler-Graham or multiple world theory is correct. All possible quantum states, events, possibilities and outcomes are real, eventual and occurring. The chances of everything happening someplace at sometime in the superverse is 100%. (For all you scientists out there, if Schrodinger’s cat had a time machine, he might not be in the box at all.)
Therefore, there is a worldline where you are alive and another worldline where you have gone back in time to kill your relative and the you on the new worldline won’t be born but “you” the killer is still running around there. Differences between worldlines are measured from the perspective of the time traveler in terms of divergence percentage. The higher the divergence, the more “un-like” your destination worldline looks like compared to your worldline of origin.
Therefore, any “prediction” I might make has a slight chance of being incorrect anyway and you now have the ability to act on it based on what I’ve said. Can you stop the war before it gets here? Sure. Will you do it? Probably not.
As far as space travel goes... no, we are not on Mars yet but we’re trying very hard so we can avoid another “Hell’s Kitchen” outcome from an overpopulated Earth
Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 10:26 AM
John,
As I read more and more of your posts, I am admittedly intrigued, but increasingly annoyed by your insistance.
OK, fine, there are ethical issues, relating to lotto numbers and gambling, so tell us something like how many will be found dead in the earthquake in India. Tell us
something that happens in politics on a national level.
Surely you can tell us *something* that has a neutral moral effect on society.
You stated:
"Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality"
Tell us something we don't know!! Look at what message board you are on!! How redundant can one be? Of course it's not unreasonable that most of us on here certainly think that time travel is a possibility!!..come on...
"2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information"
Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.
John, it's becoming clearer to me that you are simply a fraud...how sad indeed...you can still save yourself, but you better do it soon.
Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:53 AM
Perhaps it would be better if you just considered me a fraud. I really don’t have a problem with that. If that were the case, could we then have discussions that you were comfortable with?
((Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.))
I can think of a couple of examples.
If the Egyptians knew the Red Sea was going to drown them, do you think they would have pursued Moses?
If you could go back in time to 1941 and tell the radar operators to take a second look at the radar screen on December 7th, would you? Before you say yes and accept that parade in your honor down main street, perhaps you should go forward in time and see if the U.S still
