Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

[CaryP]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

I struggle with Cary's replies sometimes as he seems to get too worked up and borders on being downright intimidating at times. He seems to me to be possessed of great wit and wisdom, which he throws out the window on occasion to become threatening and aggressive and this puzzles me for the most part. I genuinely thought that he was being bombastic and offensive regarding my state of mind, which in the current climate of my life simply got me incensed.

Knowing Cary, I should have seen his post for what it was and rode on.

I didn't as I couldn't.

Maybe it's time to hang up my Sword and get out of Camelot.

Grayson, my brother.

Please read this and listen with a receptive ear. What you've seen of my posts here are somewhat timid for my "real life responses/reactions" to the current state of our affairs. My bellicose style puts many people off. I AM intimidating both by personal stature and by overwhelming opinionated positionality. I AM aggressive and threatening. This has been my "nature" for most of my life. I AM also bombasitc and offensive, but not about your state of mind.. Most of the above is without conscious awareness. I'm mostly just an overbearing, obnoxious asshole, without conscious intentionality. I feel badly for having that communicative "style" of mine affect you so badly. So all I can ask for is for you to forgive my style of reply, and accept that my acerbic nature is just that, and not personal to you.

My aggressive nature is mostly unseen by me. But as I was taught as I was growing up, get the first lick in and make sure it's a good one. At the same time, I didn't see my post as attacking "Grayson" but more an attack/counter to what you wrote. I see that as two seperate things, as this was supposed to be a debate.

I empathize with your current personal struggle. I've lost many family members to the aggresive forms of cancer. I don't want to add to your burden. If you'd rather I will "go away" for a while. I'm happy to do it. I'd probably get a lot more work done. Damn you Satan, for having such a fine place to be distracted with. LOL.

Please retain your moderator status here. Your sword should not be surrendered. You do an excellent job. You are highly respected here, and your contribution is much appreciated - whatever our differences of opinion. I hold you in high regard, and respect your contribution. May we still be friends? I hope so.

Cary

 

[Grayson]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

Originally posted by CaryP+Sep 2 2004, 05:33 PM--><div class='quotemain'>Grayson,

We cool my brother?

Cary

​

[/b]

Always big fella.

Originally posted by KiraSjon@Sep 2 2004, 08:35 PM
DISCLAIMER: If I offend anyone with these statements please accept my heartfelt apology as none of this is intended in that fashion. They are my views on previous statements made and only that and I have been known on many instances to be ?wrong?. Please also note that the ?you?s? in this entry are speaking in a general fashion. No animals or humans were harmed in the writing of this post.

Okay: here?s my 2 cents. *throws it in the jar*

I think you all have many very good points, and I must say that I agree with Grayson that most individuals are just seeking lifelong happiness. However, happiness is relative per each individual. Happiness stems from what we are brought up to be content with. Unfortunately, when you are negatively judged based on the actions of your government, you become conflicted with one of two things: guilt for being part of the responsible party and electing them into office, or helplessness/frustration for it happening without your consent.

Most people I know read more news from other countries than from our own and attempt to understand those views in addition to the American ones. I believe that we, as Americans, are very aware of how we are viewed throughout the world and I would be lying if I said I liked it. For example, way before any of these current messes (at least way before the big giant focus was on them) I went to France with my friends. This was about 10 years ago. We were actually kicked out of a restaurant for speaking English (to each other, we spoke French to the staff.) This was my introduction to a European view of Americans. It was not the only place we were kicked out of for being American, nor the only country. (We went to 6.) As an American, I take that worldly negative criticism of my government somewhat personally. Although I do know it is technically not my fault, I am still affected should I choose to leave my country.

These situations spark way too many feelings to even broach. I think the reactions stimulated have to do with lessons learned early on ? some beat straight into our heads. We are constantly encouraged to think freely and as an individual. We are taught to achieve ?The American Dream.? (Personally, I?ll take Eddie Izzard?s Italian Dream any day of the week.) We are taught that with hard work and perseverance we can achieve anything. They attempt to illustrate this to us with examples of our government. I learn more about what my government is up to reading a non-American newspaper than one of my own. That?s very sad to me (Yes, I?m young LoL) as my eyes are now thoroughly being opened to the true actions of my government. My America is being destroyed by the very principles it was built on. The offices I was raised to respect and hold in the highest regard are turning out to be nothing more than smoke and mirrors and a giant puppet show. This breaks my heart as I?m sure it would any patriot.

I believe it is a direct result of this early conditioning that has sparked such havoc in our country today and also sparks defensive reactions to those who do not live under the same laws that I do yet choose to comment about them. (Note: Grayson ? this is not a direct shot at you, many of my European friends discuss American politics frequently.) Too many people thinking too many different thoughts with the same force does not make for a happy country. In this sense, I again agree with Grayson that sometimes it is best to bow out and bite your tongue. However, I believe that also comes with the level of fear provoked by whomever topped with how sore your tongue is. When you?ve reached your limit, you shout. So what happens when thousands of people reach their limit and, as they have been conditioned to, choose another path? No one wants to feel they must actually leave their country. Most people I know, at least, love their countries and want to see them build and become a fantastic environment to live in.

To me, this is patriotism, not the idea that my country is better than your country. I think patriotism is the idea that you are simply proud to be where you are from. I think the American people feel their patriotism is under attack because we are not necessarily proud of where we?re from anymore due to the people representing us. We would like to be ? the desire is there. I don?t know any Americans who think we should take over another country for whatever reason. However, we don?t get that choice. We barely get the choice of who is to make those decisions. We?re supposed to be able to, they say anyway. This seems to be only one limitation of our freedom. There are so many others.

It is within this reasoning that I can see all of your points. We siblings will always fight amongst ourselves until a kid down the street starts beating one of us up. Then we fight them and band together. We always have. ><

[snapback]8367[/snapback]​

Well put.

Originally posted by StarLord@Sep 2 2004, 10:06 PM
Grayson,

Man that sux big time. I can only imagine how you must feel about this. Here's an Idea, any chance of being able to teach what you know?? Like a advisor or something???


PS Any chance I can have those socks you worked off??, I was thinking that if you saw this as a mental excersise where as I see it more like a mental feat, your socks may help me.

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I don't want to teach, nor advise. I have given too much ground to this disease over the years and I intend to make my stand against it. I may take my interest in Photography further, or extend myself in writing a book on a subject hitherto unknown to me, like Fly-fishing. :lol: That's a joke for the English audience here.

Originally posted by Paul J. Lyon@Sep 2 2004, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by Grayson@Sep 2 2004, 09:45 PM
Cary, Paul, everyone else: Forgive me, life is biting me on the arse at the moment and I am adrift in the wreckage of the life that I had, this has caused me to think erratically and defensively. I am railing at the world at the moment and everyone in it.

After the recent difficulties, I had thought that I was adjusted to my new state of being, only to discover that I am not. Let me explain.

You know the whole cancer thing, so I won't bore you with the detail of it all, save to add this. I find myself walking around with 2 tumours buried in the meat around my spine, benign tumours, but tumours none the less. I know that they are there, I know that the Dr's are loathe to touch them at present and I know that treatment is available. But, I know that they are there, so once again I am a man with cancer. It is difficult to adjust to this state and the consequences of it.

Furthermore, I was subject to a medical evaluation this week and an interview with a Psychiatrist to assess my fitness to return to work. The cancer ain't doing anything much at present, so why not. Gotta be better than sitting on my arse at home.

I am unfit for duty according to the medical Doctor and the Psychiatrist has diagnosed Post-Traumatic-Stress-disorder, which manifests itself as inexplicable feelings of anger and guilt primarily. I cannot be treated for this until my cancer has been successfully treated and my cancer may not be treated, ever, as it may never actually kick off. So, I am to be retired on mental health grounds.

Scrapped for being human.

So, there you have it. Cary, you touched a raw nerve on the wrong day, with a Northerly wind and HedgeHogs pointing South.

On any other day, I would be more readily able to see your point of view here. Although, I do feel that your response was a bit strong.

I can't view this as passionately as you do because it is just an interesting mental exercise to me. I don't believe that you can change any of the current Democratic Systems of Government from within, they are Water Empires and can only be influenced by an external source, this is the simple fact that I believe. But, that is just my point of view. If we were to revert to the purest form of Democracy, as I have posted in quotes above, then I believe that we would be happier people. Again that is just my view of the world.

I agree that my use of language was inflammatory and can only say that I was using fool in the human sheep sense, not in a personal sense to Paul or anyone else. I find it difficult to see the wood from the trees sometimes.

I think that I am better off sitting back and playing Moderator, in that I feel more suited. I am not Elitist, but can see that I come across as such. Any lad who had to work his socks off as I did, can't afford to be Elitist, but I am too single minded in my arguments and maybe a bit narrow visioned sometimes.

I have again caused a storm in a teacup, sorry.

[snapback]8377[/snapback]​

There are a couple of things that I think are important here, and in relation to Kira's post.

First of all, you can't judge your own worth to us by our reactions to this sensitive issue-- the issue, as I see it, is whether individuals have any real power over the ruling class.

We have all been usurped by a ruling class of corporate and criminal gasbags. Some of us would prefer to continue to pretend that this isn't true. Others will say that it's just the way things are, and you can't change it. Still others will get fired up and try to change it.

The mass of "sheep" are in the first class; you are in the second class; I find myself with Cary in the third class, or coach. The tiniest number are in the ruling class. In Europe, most of them are "old money," as we say. Here, they are just a pack of pirates.

At any rate, I wouldn't want you to curtail your writing and posting here, because we are in the process of laying out the issues at stake and we need all sides.

Along with Cary's annoyance at "happy," I have a grim reaction to the overuse of "fun" as a life goal. Grim because I see the young men decked out in pathetic Sports garb and unemployed, with no other object in life except petty gratification, and I see the darker side of what some women used to say to me, that I wasn't having enough fun.

Of course the government wants us all to be superficially content and having fun so we won't pay attention to their rather efficient gutting of our civilization. Barbarians at the gates? They have always been well within the walls.

My other thought was that I wish for you a future unclouded by any more medical difficulties.

[snapback]8387[/snapback]​

Who's in the second coach with me and why am I there? :lol:

It was the barbarians who brought down all the Ancient Water Empires.

Thanks for the sentiments.


<!--QuoteBegin-StarLord@Sep 2 2004, 11:24 PM
I am with Paul on that. Who cares if we have differences in opinions? Thats normal. Your post here are more than necessary.

I also wish you no more medical situations.

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[/quote]

Thanks to you too StarLord.

I will avoid Politics, Religion and Alchohol for a while, as I appear to be too unstable to partake of any of them. :lol:

 

[Judge Bean]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

Those in power now in the world

a. all work together toward the same ends

b. don't care about politics at all so long as it doesn't interfere

c. have most of the money

d. are criminals

First Class passengers.

 

[StarLord]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

So, by association, the safest occupation is that of conductor, You get to honob wiht the elite, tell them where to go and park it for the night, tell them where to get off when it suits you AND you get to punch their tickets and tell them where to stick it.

Works For Me!!

 

[CaryP]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

I wasn't really sure where to post this, and it can't be copied and pasted as its a pdf file. It's somewhat long, 54 pages, but well worth the read. It's a speech by Michael Ruppert to the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco. Ruppert is the founder and publisher of fromthewilderness.com. He's a former cop and investigative journalist. I'll take the time to retype parts of his speech later today - freakin' awesome. 54 pages sounds like a lot but it's all caps and double spaced, so it's more like a 20 page article. Still long, but definitely something you want to read.

Michael Ruppert's Speech to the Commonwealth Club

Cary

 

[Grayson]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

Got it, read it later.

Thanks, Cary.

 

[CaryP]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

Thought you might be interested. Ron Paul, Representative from Texas had this message about the upcoming national ID card. I ain't getting one.

Cary

A warning from Congressman Ron Paul worth passing on:

?Washington politicians are once again seriously considering imposing a national identification card - and it may well become law before the end of the 108th Congress. The much-hailed 9/11 Commission report released in July recommends a federal identification card and, worse, a \"larger network of screening points\" inside the United States. Does this mean we are to have \"screening points\" inside our country where American citizens will be required to \"show their papers\" to government officials? It certainly sounds that way!

?As I have written recently, the 9/11 Commission is nothing more than ex-government officials and lobbyists advising current government officials that we need more government for America to be safe. Yet it was that same government that failed so miserably on September 11, 2001.

?Congress has embraced the 9/11 Commission report uncritically since its release in July. Now Congress is rushing to write each 9/11 Commission recommendation into law before the November election. In the same way Congress rushed to pass the PATRIOT Act after the September 11 attacks to be seen \"doing something,\" it looks like Congress is about to make the same mistake again of rushing to pass liberty-destroying legislation without stopping to consider the consequences. Because it is so controversial, we may see legislation mandating a national identification card with biometric identifiers hidden in bills implementing 9/11 Commission recommendations. We have seen this technique used in the past on controversial measures.

?A national identification card, in whatever form it may take, will allow the federal government to inappropriately monitor the movements and transactions of every American. History shows that governments inevitably use the power to monitor the actions of people in harmful ways. Claims that the government will protect the privacy of Americans when implementing a national identification card ring hollow. We would do well to remember what happened with the Social Security number. It was introduced with solemn restrictions on how it could be used, but it has become a de facto national identifier.

?Those who are willing to allow the government to establish a Soviet-style internal passport system because they think it will make us safer are terribly mistaken. Subjecting every citizen to surveillance and \"screening points\" will actually make us less safe, not in the least because it will divert resources away from tracking and apprehending terrorists and deploy them against innocent Americans!

?The federal government has no constitutional authority to require law-abiding Americans to present any form of identification before they engage in private transactions. Instead of forcing all Americans to prove to law enforcement that they are not terrorists, we should be focusing our resources on measures that really will make us safer. For starters, we should take a look at our dangerously porous and unguarded borders. We have seen already this summer how easy it is for individuals possibly seeking to do us harm to sneak across the border into our country. In July, Pakistani citizen Farida Goolam Mahomed Ahmed, who is on the federal watch list, reportedly crossed illegally into Texas from Mexico. She was later arrested when she tried to board a plane in New York, but she should have never been able to cross our border in the first place!

?We must take effective measures to protect ourselves from a terrorist attack. That does not mean rushing to embrace legislation that in the long run will do little to stop terrorism, but will do a great deal to undermine the very way of life we should be protecting. Just as we must not allow terrorists to threaten our lives, we must not allow government to threaten our liberties. We should reject the notion of a national identification card.

 

[StarLord]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

Get a group of at least 12 friends and once a month we all trade those cards.

That alone would freeze the system if all of us upstanding citizens did it.

 

[sosuemetoo]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

The federal government has no constitutional authority to require law-abiding Americans to present any form of identification before they engage in private transactions. Instead of forcing all Americans to prove to law enforcement that they are not terrorists, we should be focusing our resources on measures that really will make us safer. For starters, we should take a look at our dangerously porous and unguarded borders. We have seen already this summer how easy it is for individuals possibly seeking to do us harm to sneak across the border into our country. In July, Pakistani citizen Farida Goolam Mahomed Ahmed, who is on the federal watch list, reportedly crossed illegally into Texas from Mexico. She was later arrested when she tried to board a plane in New York, but she should have never been able to cross our border in the first place!

I've been struggling with this issue myself, and I don't know if anyone will like my opinion.

I agree we also need to stop our porous borders, I'm all for the "Great Wall of China" or the "Berlin Wall" type thing running all along our southern border with Mexico.

However, at this point, "they" have gotten in and we have to figure out a way to ID these people. Our mistake is letting illegals have driver's licenses...one form of identification. Illegals have managed to get social security numbers so that they can work (and add to our dwindling coufers). The only way to ID them is through the national ID.

IMO, without a national ID, you should not:
1. Work
2. Own property or a car
3. Get a driver's license
4. Open a bank account
5. Get credit

It sounds like I'm wanting to take away civil rights. I'm not. I want to take away the rights of people who are here illegally. If they choose to go through the system and do things legally, then they may have the same rights that I enjoy as an American citizen.

For instance, what rights would I have as an American citizen, illegally in the UK? Probably not the same as my sworded friend, Grayson, enjoys. I could be wrong.

"Mom"

 

[Unintentional]

Misrule and Criminal Rule of America

Originally posted by CaryP@Sep 8 2004, 02:46 PM
Thought you might be interested. Ron Paul, Representative from Texas had this message about the upcoming national ID card. I ain't getting one.

Cary

A warning from Congressman Ron Paul worth passing on:

? ? Washington politicians are once again seriously considering imposing a national identification card - and it may well become law before the end of the 108th Congress. The much-hailed 9/11 Commission report released in July recommends a federal identification card and, worse, a \"larger network of screening points\" inside the United States. Does this mean we are to have \"screening points\" inside our country where American citizens will be required to \"show their papers\" to government officials? It certainly sounds that way!

? ? As I have written recently, the 9/11 Commission is nothing more than ex-government officials and lobbyists advising current government officials that we need more government for America to be safe. Yet it was that same government that failed so miserably on September 11, 2001.

? ? Congress has embraced the 9/11 Commission report uncritically since its release in July. Now Congress is rushing to write each 9/11 Commission recommendation into law before the November election. In the same way Congress rushed to pass the PATRIOT Act after the September 11 attacks to be seen \"doing something,\" it looks like Congress is about to make the same mistake again of rushing to pass liberty-destroying legislation without stopping to consider the consequences. Because it is so controversial, we may see legislation mandating a national identification card with biometric identifiers hidden in bills implementing 9/11 Commission recommendations. We have seen this technique used in the past on controversial measures.

? ? A national identification card, in whatever form it may take, will allow the federal government to inappropriately monitor the movements and transactions of every American. History shows that governments inevitably use the power to monitor the actions of people in harmful ways. Claims that the government will protect the privacy of Americans when implementing a national identification card ring hollow. We would do well to remember what happened with the Social Security number. It was introduced with solemn restrictions on how it could be used, but it has become a de facto national identifier.

? ? Those who are willing to allow the government to establish a Soviet-style internal passport system because they think it will make us safer are terribly mistaken. Subjecting every citizen to surveillance and \"screening points\" will actually make us less safe, not in the least because it will divert resources away from tracking and apprehending terrorists and deploy them against innocent Americans!

? ? The federal government has no constitutional authority to require law-abiding Americans to present any form of identification before they engage in private transactions. Instead of forcing all Americans to prove to law enforcement that they are not terrorists, we should be focusing our resources on measures that really will make us safer. For starters, we should take a look at our dangerously porous and unguarded borders. We have seen already this summer how easy it is for individuals possibly seeking to do us harm to sneak across the border into our country. In July, Pakistani citizen Farida Goolam Mahomed Ahmed, who is on the federal watch list, reportedly crossed illegally into Texas from Mexico. She was later arrested when she tried to board a plane in New York, but she should have never been able to cross our border in the first place!

? ? We must take effective measures to protect ourselves from a terrorist attack. That does not mean rushing to embrace legislation that in the long run will do little to stop terrorism, but will do a great deal to undermine the very way of life we should be protecting. Just as we must not allow terrorists to threaten our lives, we must not allow government to threaten our liberties. We should reject the notion of a national identification card.

​

http://www.4verichip.com/

Okay, mayby I am an idiot, but I wouldn't mind it. I carry a debt card and almost never use cash. With this thing, I wouldn't even need my wallet.