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John Titor's Legacy
the cause of the 2036 "unix problem"
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<blockquote data-quote="outspoken" data-source="post: 76699" data-attributes="member: 4413"><p>Where did i say Unix was the same as Windows? It's obvious parados404 doesnt understand how windows works. I used to work for Microsoft. I supported windows 95/98, and helped launch windows xp on oct 25th, 2001. I was one of 300 people to launch windows xp. Some of the bugs i found were fixed in later versions of Windows, and some articles i wrote are still on Microsoft's page. I currently work in IT and have a good understanding of technology.</p><p></p><p>Saying your windows 98 machine would work without certificates is very ignorant because those versions of windows had very little reliance on certificates. It wasnt until Windows Vista that you have to have core system files signed in order for the system to boot. That's also the version Microsoft introduced the TPM, or trusted platform module.</p><p></p><p>If you install Windows 8 it comes with built in certificates that are issued by Microsoft. Every core OS file used by Windows is digitally signed by a catalog (.cat) file. If the .cat files are missing, or your system date is really wrong, you will run into a lot of issues.</p><p></p><p>These core certificates are issued for very long time periods such as 20 years. The assumption is in 20 years you will either not be using Windows 8, or Microsoft will issue a new certificate to replace it. But if there's a nuclear war and no new computers are made, or operating systems, then 20 years from now people might be using the same pc's with the same OS as today, with expired certificates.</p><p></p><p>The certificates issue also brings up an issue that im sure no one has even talked about. If there was *any* bug in 2036 that needed to be fixed in windows, you would have to do the following:</p><p></p><p>1) You would need the source code to windows (or whatever OS that needs patching)</p><p>2) You would need the original certificate and key to digitally sign the file, as windows does not allow unsigned core OS files - the pc might not even boot</p><p>3) You would then need to create a patch and distribute it</p><p></p><p>The point here is the windows source code is confidential and is private, and the original certificate and key used to sign files is private. If there was a nuclear war you would not be able to make patches for windows, and maybe other OS. Yes, you could install linux on computers currently using windows, but good luck finding drivers in a would destroyed by nuclear war with no internet.</p><p></p><p>You guys are also assuming he just meant unix and not derivatives. Iphones run on IOS, which is derived from Unix. Apples Mac OS is based on Unix. Linux of course is derived from Unix. Many appliances run Linux or a *nix OS. Routers often run a propriety os based on Unix. Power stations probably run a variety of Unix or Linux. To say nothing would be running unix in 2036 is to say there would be no routers, no iphones, no linux machines, etc. </p><p></p><p>A very good example of what i am talking <a href="http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/electrical-grid-called-vulnerable-to-power-shutdown/?_r=0" target="_blank">about is this</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/electrical-grid-called-vulnerable-to-power-shutdown/?_r=0" target="_blank">http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/electrical-grid-called-vulnerable-to-power-shutdown/?_r=0</a></p><p></p><p>So he tested an open protocol and found no problems. But when he tested vendors implementation of that protocol he found a lot of problems. What this means is <strong>even if there isnt a y2k type of bug in unix, that doesnt mean there cant be a y2k type of bug in unix variants such as Linux, Mac OS, or others.</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="outspoken, post: 76699, member: 4413"] Where did i say Unix was the same as Windows? It's obvious parados404 doesnt understand how windows works. I used to work for Microsoft. I supported windows 95/98, and helped launch windows xp on oct 25th, 2001. I was one of 300 people to launch windows xp. Some of the bugs i found were fixed in later versions of Windows, and some articles i wrote are still on Microsoft's page. I currently work in IT and have a good understanding of technology. Saying your windows 98 machine would work without certificates is very ignorant because those versions of windows had very little reliance on certificates. It wasnt until Windows Vista that you have to have core system files signed in order for the system to boot. That's also the version Microsoft introduced the TPM, or trusted platform module. If you install Windows 8 it comes with built in certificates that are issued by Microsoft. Every core OS file used by Windows is digitally signed by a catalog (.cat) file. If the .cat files are missing, or your system date is really wrong, you will run into a lot of issues. These core certificates are issued for very long time periods such as 20 years. The assumption is in 20 years you will either not be using Windows 8, or Microsoft will issue a new certificate to replace it. But if there's a nuclear war and no new computers are made, or operating systems, then 20 years from now people might be using the same pc's with the same OS as today, with expired certificates. The certificates issue also brings up an issue that im sure no one has even talked about. If there was *any* bug in 2036 that needed to be fixed in windows, you would have to do the following: 1) You would need the source code to windows (or whatever OS that needs patching) 2) You would need the original certificate and key to digitally sign the file, as windows does not allow unsigned core OS files - the pc might not even boot 3) You would then need to create a patch and distribute it The point here is the windows source code is confidential and is private, and the original certificate and key used to sign files is private. If there was a nuclear war you would not be able to make patches for windows, and maybe other OS. Yes, you could install linux on computers currently using windows, but good luck finding drivers in a would destroyed by nuclear war with no internet. You guys are also assuming he just meant unix and not derivatives. Iphones run on IOS, which is derived from Unix. Apples Mac OS is based on Unix. Linux of course is derived from Unix. Many appliances run Linux or a *nix OS. Routers often run a propriety os based on Unix. Power stations probably run a variety of Unix or Linux. To say nothing would be running unix in 2036 is to say there would be no routers, no iphones, no linux machines, etc. A very good example of what i am talking [URL='http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/electrical-grid-called-vulnerable-to-power-shutdown/?_r=0']about is this[/URL] [URL='http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/electrical-grid-called-vulnerable-to-power-shutdown/?_r=0'][/URL] So he tested an open protocol and found no problems. But when he tested vendors implementation of that protocol he found a lot of problems. What this means is [B]even if there isnt a y2k type of bug in unix, that doesnt mean there cant be a y2k type of bug in unix variants such as Linux, Mac OS, or others.[/B] [/QUOTE]
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John Titor's Legacy
the cause of the 2036 "unix problem"
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