The Creation of Man

Harte

Harte

Senior Member
Messages
4,562
Re: The Creation of Man

Dmitri,

Regarding your (understandable) entropy based (sort of) objections to evolution, I offer you this link:

http://newton.ex.ac.uk/aip/physnews.376.html

Here is a report about colloids acting in a way that appears to contradict entropy. The researchers are saying that order can increase in part of a system as long as it results in a decrease in order in the rest of the system.

You may have already known about this of course, but I found it greatly interesting.

Additionally, Here is a link perhaps showing the time frame we're talking about here for the natural evolution of the first life form in the primordial soup.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/...10111073459.htm

Harte
 
D

Dmitri

Junior Member
Messages
89
Re: The Creation of Man

Harte,

Good links, thanks. It is interesting how order originates from chaos. I think live systems are different though. They are very specific and packed with discrete functional information, not like crystals and other uniform structures. They could be made in labs only as far as I can tell. If we consider origination of a simplest enzyme or RNA complex to function and reproduce on its own, indeed a jump very close to ourselves as organisms so that the difference between the simplest bacterium and man will seem negligible compared to the soup: how many billions of years do we need to originate and swim in the soup? A bacterium would need little fewer, still more that all atoms in the Universe amount to. Darwinian fuss is based on complete and academically protected ignorance in probability of events in life systems. The ignorance and unwillingness to address the issue on the premise that it is all well established has spread as a thought model and damaged our logic. I think it tops human stupidity; it is more like a disease, a plague of our century so to speak. Only you are relatively safe if you consider it carefully for once. I started learning biology with all these sick illusions and through the prism of this twisted thinking; I still feel kind of sick, in the kingdom of warped mirrors. Good for my son, he is 21 only, and in statistics, so he got it spot on and now learning things in math and biology free from all this stuff. I do not mind a soup as long as it creates a complex of a minimum of 1,000 enzymes surrounded by a membrane made by another couple of hundred.

Dmitri
 
V

virtualgirl

Member
Messages
255
Re: The Creation of Man

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"strangelove\")</div>
this is extremly retarted[/b]
Click to expand...
I don't see what you see as being retarded. Looks like this thread has evolved into a great conversation. I think if you think you have something to add that is (less retarded) it would be more prudent to post your own thoughts. ;)
 
D

Dmitri

Junior Member
Messages
89
Re: The Creation of Man

Thanks, Virtualgirl,

I have considered these things since I was 16 or so. My way to this current direction of understanding was not easy and fast, and what I have said in this forum thread is a result of many years of search. A spontaneous impression of Strangelove will not cut it so it seems.

I am very grateful to this forum that is to all participants for sharing their so original thoughts, especially to Harte, Starlord and Zoomerz. I will refer to you when I write a book. Please feel free to email me. I am planning to finish the book in a couple of years.

All the best,

dn
 
Harte

Harte

Senior Member
Messages
4,562
Re: The Creation of Man

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Dmitri\")</div>
I am very grateful to this forum that is to all participants for sharing their so original thoughts, especially to Harte, Starlord and Zoomerz. I will refer to you when I write a book. Please feel free to email me. I am planning to finish the book in a couple of years.

All the best,

dn[/b]
Click to expand...

Dmitri,

You are very welcome to my viewpoint, although it differs from yours. From my perspective, I am gladdened to see thoughtful objections made to Darwinian theory, instead of the usual creationist claptrap.

Harte
 
D

Dmitri

Junior Member
Messages
89
Re: The Creation of Man

It is a good perspective to look into. I have never thought of it. Now that you put it, I think it is in the inmost nature of things at all levels, molecular and beyond: the necessity to overcome limits and pitfalls, evil so to say, - and progress this way. Again, I am reflecting on Hoyle: intelligence trying to improve its own ways modifying matter at stake. To this line, matter = intelligence; neither is superior or outside of the other, but infinitely developing in all time-space directions modifying its future, present and past. We do not need an ultimate creation this way, which may be illusory anyways. Every moment is created in a way, so why is a special beginning?
 
D

Dmitri

Junior Member
Messages
89
Re: The Creation of Man

It is a good perspective to look into. I have never thought of it. Now that you put it, I think it is in the inmost nature of things at all levels, molecular and beyond: the necessity to overcome limits and pitfalls, evil so to say, - and progress this way. Again, I am reflecting on Hoyle: intelligence trying to improve its own ways modifying matter at stake. To this line, matter = intelligence; neither is superior or outside of the other, but infinitely developing in all time-space directions modifying its future, present and past. We do not need an ultimate creation this way, which may be illusory anyways. Every moment is created in a way, so why is a special beginning?
 
D

Dmitri

Junior Member
Messages
89
Re: The Creation of Man

A thing I would not agree with Hoyle and Wickramasinghe is about how/ if panspermia is directed. They imply that it is undirected: seeds of life go through the Universe as rain of bacteria and spores. I tend to think it is strictly directed. Let?s consider both scenarios. 1st, undirected: spores of all life forms come to earth and other planets from ?clouds of life?. Then, we should be able to find spores that develop into all life forms, not just bacterial spores. We do not know of any of this kind. Second, even if the spores are too rare to find, diverse life forms should have originated before the Cambrian explosion, spread more uniformly over the earth history, and appeared as soon as conditions permitted, well before the Cambrian. If the spores are even more rare and hit planets once in a hundred million years, now what kind of hit should it have been to bring about 5 million species of insects and other species at once? A sort of magic meteorite could it have been. For the sake of digging for right answers we naturally avoid magic. 2nd, directed: life is brought to planets and fine-tuned by strictly directed events. The argument to the contrary, to start with, is in the seeming lack of reason behind the immense clouds of bacteria in the interstellar space. Still, things may go like this: life is seeded where environment favors. Next, when more simple life forms improve and build up conditions for more advanced organisms, the latter are introduced and then maintained and adjusted by bacterial and viral upgrades. It appears that the spread of life and advanced intelligence is more tuned than just dropping everything everywhere and this way resembling Darwinian sort of waist, side products of which we would see elsewhere than in textbooks.
 

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