Time travel, Free Will, and Multiverse

[IgetwhatIwant]

61.6 in reply to 61.5

Time Travel Discussion - Time travel, Free Will, and Multiverse
From:
Chronos (CHRON)
6/3/2005 5:23 am

To:
Steyvan unread


1. Time travel to the past does not CREATE new timelines -- it merely reveals parallel timelines for the first time (which, to the time traveller, would appear to be the creation of a new timeline, since its existence was not previously known in his own Universe).
2. Time travel to one's own future is impossible in any scenario.
Consider this: You travel one minute into the future, meet yourself, have a two-minute conversation with yourself, then return to your present. How many of you are there now?
Or this: You travel one year into the future, meet your one-year-older self, then shoot yourself in the head, committing suicide. You obviously won't live to be one year older, so the future you were just in with your older self obviously can't be your own future. But it can't be anyone else's future, either, since in to timeline would you both live to be a year older while meeting yourself from the past and watching your younger self commit suicide.
Therefore, the only way to alter timelines is by travelling to the past; travelling to the future -- yours or anyone else's -- is impossible. (However, a time traveller FROM the future can take you back with him, but that would mean you are from a divergent timeline he "created," not that he is from YOUR future. Spontaneous travel to the future is logically impossible -- the time travel must be initiated FROM the future.)

 

[Sean]

Where did you get this information from? Did you think of this yourself? This information is exactly correct with a few minor explanation flaws -

- Time travel to the past indeed does not create new world lines. However, it doesn't reveal new world lines either. You are merely "existing" in another section of world lines based on the information you send to the past.

- Time travel in the future is indeed not possible. However, it does not involve any paradoxes like the one you mentioned. Your "future" self does not exist in relativity to you, therefore, it is impossible for you to have a future destination that you can send information to. However, you definitely are able to send information back in time, since relative to you, the locations in the past already exist.

- One thing that you neglect to mention is that you cannot literally "travel" in time. You are only able to send information back in time.

 

[Samstwitch]

Where did you get this information from? Did you think of this yourself? This information is exactly correct with a few minor explanation flaws -

- Time travel to the past indeed does not create new world lines. However, it doesn't reveal new world lines either. You are merely "existing" in another section of world lines based on the information you send to the past.

- Time travel in the future is indeed not possible. However, it does not involve any paradoxes like the one you mentioned. Your "future" self does not exist in relativity to you, therefore, it is impossible for you to have a future destination that you can send information to. However, you definitely are able to send information back in time, since relative to you, the locations in the past already exist.

- One thing that you neglect to mention is that you cannot literally "travel" in time. You are only able to send information back in time.

You speak with authority. I'm curious, please tell me...How do you know this information is correct? Are you speaking from experience or is this information your 'theories'? If from experience, what is your true age...or how do you know all of this at 16 years old?

 

[Sean]

Are you speaking from experience or is this information your 'theories'?

I am, as a matter of fact, speaking from experience. As to my authority, all of the information I disclose is proven by experimentation, not by simple "observations" of other's work or "theories"; I am highly offended by your misuse of quotations in this situation.

I'm curious, please tell me...How do you know this information is correct?

Instead of asking me, I should ask you a question: do you believe in the accuracy of my information? Of course, without actually seeing the results of my team's work, you cannot give any verification; nor will I disclose any of the results prematurely. However, I will answer any of your questions, given that they are not too specific.

If from experience, what is your true age...or how do you know all of this at 16 years old?

My true age, I will not disclose, and I will not say if I am 16 or not 16. In fact, I don't think age matters in this discussion. I am giving out information regarding the subject, and I will answer any questions regarding the subject; Though to my knowledge, no one has ever asked me a question on this forum yet.

Where did you get this information from? Did you think of this yourself? This information is exactly correct with a few minor explanation flaws -

- Time travel to the past indeed does not create new world lines. However, it doesn't reveal new world lines either. You are merely "existing" in another section of world lines based on the information you send to the past.

- Time travel in the future is indeed not possible. However, it does not involve any paradoxes like the one you mentioned. Your "future" self does not exist in relativity to you, therefore, it is impossible for you to have a future destination that you can send information to. However, you definitely are able to send information back in time, since relative to you, the locations in the past already exist.

- One thing that you neglect to mention is that you cannot literally "travel" in time. You are only able to send information back in time.

Apart from what I have said, I can tell you that the information I have given in the quoted statement is precise.

 

[Samstwitch]

I am highly offended by your misuse of quotations in this situation.

There is no need to be offended. I used the single quotation marks, not as a quotation " ", but for the effect. This was actually a misuse of single quotation marks, but they are used that way by some writers. In other words, I wasn't quoting you when I wrote 'theory' with single quotation marks, but was emphasizing the word. I should have used italics for the word theory instead.

I asked, How do you know this information. You replied: "Instead of asking me, I should ask you a question: do you believe in the accuracy of my information?"

I don't know you at all, so at this point, I have no reason to believe your information. I'm asking questions to try and make that determination.

You said: "Of course, without actually seeing the results of my team's work, you cannot give any verification; nor will I disclose any of the results prematurely."

I don't know anything about your "team's work" or whatever results you are talking about, so you have no need to "disclose" anything prematurely. I have no idea what you're referring to. As I said, I don't know you. I'm trying to get to know you now. That's why I'm asking questions.

Opening up dialogue on Time Travel and/or Time Travel claims is very welcome here and always followed up by many questions from members.

You said: "My true age, I will not disclose, and I will not say if I am 16 or not 16. In fact, I don't think age matters in this discussion."

Why is your age important? Because it is not unusual for a very young person to come here and make up stories about Time Travel, being a Time Traveler, etc. You don't have to disclose your true age, but IMO, if you want to be taken seriously, then whether or not you are 16 is totally relevant and important in establishing credibility.

 

[Sean]

There is no need to be offended. I used the single quotation marks, not as a quotation " ", but for the effect. This was actually a misuse of single quotation marks, but they are used that way by some writers. In other words, I wasn't quoting you when I wrote 'theory' with single quotation marks, but was emphasizing the word. I should have used [sic] italics for the word theory instead.

Modern English writing tools aside, I wish to go into an aside on theories. Much of what makes up the fundamentals and beyond in modern science is theories, so your scorn on 'theories' is not needed and highly misinterpreted.

I don't know you at all, so at this point, I have no reason to believe your information. I'm asking questions to try and make that determination.

You have no reason to believe this information that I'm giving you, but your reason is wrong. You don't ask for facts. You don't ask for explanations. You don't ask for anything trying furtively to find out how old I am. If you were serious about receiving a working model on time travel, you would be asking about facts and information instead of acting like a Snowden persecutor.

I don't know anything about your "team's work" or whatever results you are talking about, so you have no need to "disclose" anything prematurely. I have no idea what you're referring to. As I said, I don't know you. I'm trying to get to know you now. That's why I'm asking questions.

What I'm getting from your whole act is this: I don't know you, so I will not believe any information that you say even though everything about your theory makes perfect sense.

Why is your age important? Because it is not unusual for a very young person to come here and make up stories about Time Travel, being a Time Traveler, etc. You don't have to disclose your true age, but IMO, if you want to be taken seriously, then whether or not you are 16 is totally relevant and important in establishing credibility.

If you've read anything about the theory posted by Connor Stein on the previous thread:

For simplicity, to all who read this thread. I have invented the so called time machine and am the “first” time traveler in thie world line.



For those interested in the physics behind it, I shall explain the underlying concept in terms of physics.



Theoretically, time travel is quite simplistic. I myself am a physicist, and as I dwell over the equations of mechanics and electromagnetics, I realized that in order to time travel, one must not look at the complex equations, but one has to find the truth in the simple ones. Thus I invented the first functional theoretical time travel machine.



The 3 basic principles of time travel



There are three basic underlying concepts that need to be understood and absorbed by the reader in order for him / her to understand this document.



1. As a quantity approaches infinity, the magnitude of the quantity begins to oscillate around infinity.



2. Two singularities with its poles in series and its event horizon parallel to each other shall allow the force of gravity to approach infinity.



3. A fraction with its numerator and denominator respectively valued at infinity and infinity shall allow the fraction to be simplified down to the constant of 1, or at least a constant so close to 1 that the uncertainty can be omitted.



Explanation behind the three underlying concepts:





1. The famous Zeno’s paradox proposes, that, if a person launches an arrow at a target, then the arrow will fly half of the remaining distance each time the person measures its distance towards a target and therefore never reaching the supposed target after an infinite number of measurements. However, as the first underlying concept proposes, the distance the arrow travels begins to oscillate at infinity, and therefore the extra distance caused by the oscillation allows the arrow to concretely arrive at the target. This also debunks the theory that when a person jumps off a building, he / she will not die because the person will fall half the distance each second, and reach a displacement with respect to the ground that is infinitely small. Using the oscillation property of infinity, the person will hit the ground during (2^infinity).



2. The square of any number is larger than the number by a multiple of itself. Therefore the square of a number that is infinitely large will infinitely approach infinity; using the first underlying principle of time travel, the oscillation at infinity induces the quantity to oscillate. The result of this oscillation is that the square of a number that approaches infinity will equal infinity at numerous instances during the oscillation. Since the force of gravity approaches infinite, and Newton’s law of gravitation states that the force of gravity is [(GMm)/(R^2)], an infinite large force would imply an infinite large mass. The mass of the universe is infinite and growing, and no amount of oscillation can surpass this boundary; therefore the time must be infinitely small.



3. Since the magnitude of the numerator and the magnitude of the denominator both equal to infinity, then at some instances, the oscillation will allow the fraction to equal to 1 numerous instances in a time interval taken arbitrarily during the oscillation. Therefore when time is infinitely small, the fraction resembles the format of 1/0, and thus, incorporates an infinitely long delay.



** Explanation of oscillation: The oscillation proposed here can be thought of as a spring with its uncompressed value equal to infinity, and thus the spring will oscillate around infinity; proposing that values may be beyond infinity.



Explanation of Time Travel



Firstly, some properties of the subway ( an allusion to the time “continuum”

1. The subway obeys the three underlying concepts as listed in the top explanation

2. The subway can experience instantaneous acceleration

3. The subway can experience instantaneous change in velocity

4. The subway is suspended on a gyro, so any object inside the subway will not feel force.



In order for one to be able to travel in time, one must first slow time down. This could be obtained easily. Imagine oneself inside a infinitely long subway moving at the velocity of V (V is approaching C (light speed)) in the positive direction in an infinitely long subway station. The subway relative to the human inside can be considered unmoving as the human inside the subway may not see anything outside. There exists another human outside of the subway car on the subway station who can directly observe everything inside the subway instantly, without being affected by the dilation of time as V approaches C. Relative to the human inside the subway, the subway car is not moving as the acceleration is 0. Relative to the human outside, the subway is moving at velocity V as V approaches C. The subway is an analogy to the time continuum, and the person inside the subway is, of course, ourselves in the present progressing towards the future. The subway, is not moving at a constant velocity*. It skips around a huge variety of ranges. This corresponds to the allusion of time as time does not move in a smooth motion and tends to go at varying “velocities”.



*For simplicity, we will assume, for now, a constant velocity for subway.



Imagine a motorcycle inside the subway. Relative to the person in the station, the motorcycle is moving at the same velocity as the subway. Therefore in order for the motorcycle to remain in the same place for the person on the station, the motorcycle must first move “backwards” in the subway at velocity V as V approaches C relative to the person inside the subway. After the motorcycle achieves this speed, the motorcycle can experience acceleration which propels the motorcycle to go above the speed that it has reached. This makes the speed of the motorcycle begins to oscillate around the speed C (light speed) which according to theory, is the “infinite” speed. As the motorcycle oscillates beyond this speed, it is actually moving backwards relatively to the person on the subway station. This is an allusion to time, where when the person moves with an infinitely large amount of force propelling it (in order to stop in time) with an infinitely large amount of force pulling it ( in order to go backwards in time in “intervals”).



As before mentioned, time flows at drastically different rates. Though some may think this complicate matters, this is actually the most important factor in time travel. Combining the apogees and the perigees of the flow with the oscillation of traveling at V as V approaches C gives birth to time travel.



Equation explanation:



1. F = ma = gmm/r^2

2. m/s^2 (units for above equation) = g(constant)kg^2/m^2

3. s^2/m = m^2

4. s^2 = m^3



At this point, we bring into the situation a micro singularity. Simply stated, a singularity is a black hole. It has infinite mass, and therefore, infinite force. In order for the universe to be logical, the singularity must have something to “balance the mass”. Therefore, we use a micro singularity. From the above equation, time squared is not equal, but proportional to the distance cubed. Thus we use two singularities in series. The singularity provides the means for us to travel at V as V approaches C.



Because it is a micro singularity or a mini black hole, we can only send a limited amount of information through.



As information enters one end of the singularity, the receiving end must have already opened up a singularity and recorded the exact time counting for time delusion. The information shall pass through one end and arrive at the other end.



Information on computers must become a file. This is the same in our universe. Memories sent through to the other side will be contained by some kind of “vessel” which is a “human” in theory.


The above information is all I can cram.

You would understand that someone who's trying to makeup something doesn't spend his time to type out a theory that corresponds with all physics concepts and calculus lemmas. Check the theory for fallacies instead of trying to find out my age. I have to emphasize this point: age doesn't matter. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart was smarter when he was 12 than any of us on this website will ever be, with the probable exception of my parter Mr. Stein.

 

[Samstwitch]

Re: Post #6

That's just toooo misconstrued to even reply to. I'm not biting that apple.

 

[Sean]

That's just toooo misconstrued to even reply to. I'm not biting that apple.

Did you mean, "I don't want to reply because I don't want to read that long thread?"

Here, I'll help you by making a simplified version:

Don't ask someone's age when you want information. If you do insist on finding out someone's age, you have to give a better excuse than, "I don't really believe you if you say you're 16."

 

[Sean]

At least do me the favor to read the comment. Don't be afraid to lose an argument, but if you're going to lose, then lose with dignity. I could have done the same thing to your argument. Here's a perfectly legitimate example.

I am highly offended by your misuse of quotations in this situation.

There is no need to be offended. I used the single quotation marks, not as a quotation " ", but for the effect. This was actually a misuse of single quotation marks, but they are used that way by some writers. In other words, I wasn't quoting you when I wrote 'theory' with single quotation marks, but was emphasizing the word. I should have used italics for the word theory instead.

I asked, How do you know this information. You replied: "Instead of asking me, I should ask you a question: do you believe in the accuracy of my information?"

I don't know you at all, so at this point, I have no reason to believe your information. I'm asking questions to try and make that determination.

You said: "Of course, without actually seeing the results of my team's work, you cannot give any verification; nor will I disclose any of the results prematurely."

I don't know anything about your "team's work" or whatever results you are talking about, so you have no need to "disclose" anything prematurely. I have no idea what you're referring to. As I said, I don't know you. I'm trying to get to know you now. That's why I'm asking questions.

Opening up dialogue on Time Travel and/or Time Travel claims is very welcome here and always followed up by many questions from members.

You said: "My true age, I will not disclose, and I will not say if I am 16 or not 16. In fact, I don't think age matters in this discussion."

Why is your age important? Because it is not unusual for a very young person to come here and make up stories about Time Travel, being a Time Traveler, etc. You don't have to disclose your true age, but IMO, if you want to be taken seriously, then whether or not you are 16 is totally relevant and important in establishing credibility.

This is just way too misinterpreted to reply to. You focus on the wrong thing. I'm not gonna bite the apple (even though I did, and totally crushed that petty age argument.)

 

[Samstwitch]

I was not being hostile with my questions. There was no debate here. I was curious and interested. I'm done with this conversation.