Titor's 2001 Predictions Compared to 2011 Curent Time

Mystery

New Member
Messages
5
Darby;

My thoughts went along that line also when I first found out about this, but it is the skyscraper cut & paste work which seems to spoil this otherwise attractive theory. In the supposedly "original" fax we have:

---------------
"Most of the time the changes are subtle. The oldest one was a skyscraper that don't exist in New York."

While over here we have:

"Sometimes I will notice car models that don't exist or books that come out late. The oldest one was a skyscraper that wasn't built in a near favorite store of mine in New York."
---------------

To me it's quite obvious that what Pamela said is exactly correct and the misplaced "don't" seems to be a dead giveaway, but this is not the only oddity here.

That being said, does part 17 even make sense in the context of everything else that Boomer wrote over the course of five months? No. It completely contradicts the posts.

Well, as you probably have noticed there are still differences even if we leave out most of this timeline damage stuff. In fact, this is exactly what one would expect of a less developed archetype story. The plotline of his first story was built around Y2K related disasters and it wouldn't be particularly convincing later when those predicted events failed to take place. I imagine that later he would have to ditch most of the original plotline and rearrange his story.

Here's one thing that I curiously noticed only after reading your last post:

---------------
"Dear Art,

I had to fax when I heard other time travelers calling in from any time past the year 2500 AD. Please let me explain."
---------------

There were "travellers" calling in from many different times in this very show, but why did John specifically have to fax when he heard that some of them were (supposedly) from beyond the year 2500? He next offered to explain why this was, but if you read further down he never actually gives any explanation! Instead he goes on telling us how time travel was invented in 2034, how Y2K glitch devasted most of the modern world and so on.

Previously I couldn't see the forest for the trees, but this loose end only makes sense if you add in his real mission to: "...discover the reason why there is no apparent future after 2564."

Speaking of similarities; there is this certain data point that caught my attention about six or seven months ago. In one part of the fax John says:

---------------
"Unfortunately it was also discovered that anyone going forward in time from my 2036 hit a brick wall in the year 2564. Everyone who has ever been there has reported that nothing exists when the machine is turned off you find yourself surrounded by blackness and silence."

I got this deja vu feeling when I read this, because there was something familiar in it. In January 10th 2001 John wrote:

"The measurement for worldline divergence is an observation variable isolated to the distortion unit. An effective analogy would be a "gravity radar". The unit's sensors take a "snapshot" of the local gravity around the unit before a flight. During travel, this baseline is periodically checked to make sure there are no major changes in the environment that would cause a catastrophic mass failure (brick wall appearing from nowhere)."
---------------

It could be a sheer coincidence that a reference to brick wall appears in both segments where he is describing some problems with timelines/worldlines and his time machine. Still, it's tempting to think that this might be a case where he was making a subtle reference to his old story just for giggles.

My final point relates to the second fax. On the old Art Bell website (accessible through Wayback Machine) you can actually read some program descriptions and the (in)famous second Titor fax seems to be listed there also. This was a day after Art had returned from his first retirement:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010616035021/http://artbell.com/topics1098.html

10/29/98 Thursday / Friday

* Glenn.... John Glenn is back in space after a successful launch.
* Time Traveler.... Art reads a fax from a time traveler with quite a lot of info in it about what you will see in the future.
.....

However, the available transcript doesn't seem to contain any such information. John only briefly alludes to Russians somehow "saving" US citizens. This is not necessarily a smoking gun, but at least an indication that there might be something wrong here.

PS. Sorry, assembling this post took longer than I expected
 

DarbyII

Junior Member
Messages
53
Darby;

To me it's quite obvious that what Pamela said is exactly correct and the misplaced "don't" seems to be a dead giveaway, but this is not the only oddity here.

Actually that was always a problem for many of us back in the day, especially when Pamela and I were co-mods on the TT forum on Anomalies. Not so much a problem with that exact quote but the general idea that when Titor or any other "time traveler" would come onto our or any other forum where she was posting her very first move was to ask the OP/TT to meet her on the side via email and she would thereafter have email communications and post excerpts from the emails as "posts" from the TT. In the case of Titor/TTO she did that immediately after his first post on 2-NOV-2000. For no particular reason she started posting for him the next day.

Did I believe that she was making up the posts? No. At least not consciously. But there were those who did. When you look back at about half of Titor's "posts" you see that they were posted by Pamela, not Titor. So we really had no way of knowing just how (or if) she might have edited the emails to fit her desired outcome. And no matter what anyone said, or what I said both on the forum or in private emails to her, she just didn't get it. She couldn't understand why people would question her veracity when re-posting the materials or her possible motives that would cause her to change the originals. That issue and a couple other off the board issues were the main cause of our falling out.
 

Liberty

Member
Messages
479
:cautious: "Imagine your in the first week of 1970." Hmmm
:cautious: Fact: How come in 72 WE ended up in Emily MN and someone decided not to go to Rochester, MN
:cautious: This troll says he made the Titor story up. (Hmm) I know the Army wants this story squashed right now.
WE need a breaking story soon. I dont like tipping my hand but this theroy I want to prove is slowly comming
to light!
 

Liberty

Member
Messages
479
Posted by John Titor on 03-24-2001 06:19 PM

I will be leaving this worldline shortly and this will be my final post. There are only a handful of people who will know exactly when I will be leaving and I’m sure they will let you know when I’m gone.

In the last few days I have found your choice of topics quite interesting and from an objective viewpoint I think it collectively answers one of your own questions, “If time travel is real, where are all the time travelers?” In the past, I have stated that quite frankly, you all scare the Hell out of me and I’m sure other temporal drivers would feel the same. But now I have an expanded explanation with two examples.

A while ago (on one of the posts), I related an experience I had with my parents while we were driving down a highway. Every now and then, we would pass someone who was in obvious distress with their vehicle. I was amazed that so many people could pass them by without stopping to help. Their explanation was fear. The risk of helping someone was too great and with today’s technology, they probably had a cell phone anyway. If they didn’t, the walk to a gas station would be good for them and teach them a lesson for running out of gas.

The other example is the plight of the homeless. When you pass them as individuals on the street I see the way people selectively choose an alternate path to avoid them.

Those two examples best define why time travelers do not show themselves. In trying to help you, we put ourselves as great risk and there’s really no point to it. We know the nature of time dictates that traveling between “exact” worldlines is impossible. Therefore, the only results we will see will be the ones we stay to see. Since worldlines, outcomes and events are infinite, we have better things to do. When I arrive in the “new” 1998 worldline on my way home I could easily start all of this again and continue to go through the same conversations with all of the same people. However, I already know you won’t pay any attention or believe me because we’ve already been through it on this worldline. Besides, I think the walk to the gas station will do you some good.

*****************************************************************************************

The following are the last questions I saw before my “going home” post. I apologize for not being able to get to all of them.

ROBERT:

((Do most of the people of that time die out, especially ones that currently have health problems?))

Yes, and people are still dying and a great deal of them are passing from CJD. As I said, with my very first few posts almost 6 months ago, I want to emphasize how devastating this will be. I believe two people are confirmed dead in Colorado from CDJ from surgical instruments. Ahhhh, the power of cheese. Milk does a body good and beef is what’s for dinner!

Me: “No, I have not tried any fast food. Thinking about where the food came from, how it was shipped and treated absolutely terrifies me. I have tried to tell people about CJD disease and it seems to be “catching on” in Europe.”

Me: Do not eat or use products from any animal that is fed and eats parts of its own dead.

Me: The “Mad Cow” story here is yet to begin...

((Is it possible that sometime in your future or in your present time that time travel will be commonplace?))

Yes, that is absolutely possible and eventual.

((Have any of the scientists of your time discovered any new planets, possibly ones with life?))

Not that I’m aware of.

((Has the bandwidth of the Internet increased greatly?))

Yes.

((And finally, one last question...how did Texas fare during the war?))

Texas is still there but Spanish is a lot more popular.

DAN:

((How does time travel affect our future (no pun intended) exploration of the universe? It seems that the greatest obstacles in our way right now are a matter of energy (propulsion technology) and economic feasibility. It seems to me that time travel technology could neatly takes care of both.))

There is a great deal of debate about trying to use a distortion unit to “travel” to the moon. The experiment would require very precise calculations that would allow the VGL system to find a theoretical path to the moon on a different worldline. The only problem is there is no way to communicate with anyone if the experiment should succeed. In other words, it’s possible to do it but only the people on the receiving end could take advantage of it.

DAVID:

((My oldest son wanted me to ask if you have any siblings.))

No, I am an only child.

((Also, are you still planning on broadcasting your departure via a broadcast over the Internet? That would be quite interesting.))

My father will be videotaping the departure. I appreciate Rick’s offer but my primary concern is the anonymity of my family. In addition, my departure will be in a somewhat public place and I do not want to draw additional attention to myself. At no fault of his own, I would also submit that Rick’s involvement would not add any credibility to the event.

((Is there still an NCAA basketball tournament in 2036, and if so, has it expanded from its current 64-team format?))

Yes, we still play basketball but I am not a fan and can’t comment on its organization.

ALBERT:

((Interesting anyway, hoped you used some of the links.
Thanks.))

Yes I did, thank you.

JOE:

((You say that you wear some kind of flight suit like coveralls when you are time traveling and that you experience 2 g's for 6-8 hrs. How is it possible to withstand that kind of g-force for such a long period without the use of an anti-g suit?))

The average human can take 2 G’s without too much difficulty. Blackout occurs at about 8 or 9 Gs and redout occurs at negative 3 Gs.

((I know you must be physically trained for space travel, but you should also have the benefit of equipment to help you out.))

We are encouraged to stay physically fit.

EMMETT:
In an effort to address Emmett’s comments, (and in all fairness) the following posts are out of context and not in order. If I’m not a real time traveler I would suggest that Emmett is at a disadvantage on his tactics to “expose” me.

If I present a picture of a sea monster to you and I claim it's real you are forced to argue its validity on the basis of the evidence that I present or create. Under these circumstances, you can’t win. If you look at the picture and argue that sea monsters should have more teeth or their incisors are not in proportion to the amount of fish they eat, it’s easy to ask you how you know so much about sea monsters if they don’t exist. Granted, you could point to dinosaur skeletons and make comparisons. But I can still say, its not a dinosaur, it’s a sea monster. In fact, I could even “whip” up some tooth marks on a piece of petrified wood and prove to you don’t know anything about sea monsters.

((I realize that you haven’t given “all of the technical details” of the device…so, the reparte has been fun. But your device, as described, simply won't work.))

If you don’t have all the details, how do you know it doesn’t work?

((Honestly, I’m not upset about any of this…and the only emotion involved for me is joy. This is fun! It really is.)

Joy?

Emmett drew the following assumptions from our conversation and I don’t believe I said any of them.

((The universe that you described, that is, one where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity doesn’t exist.))

((1. As you accelerated to light speed in your machine you and your machine formed a black hole.))

((2. From your perspective as you accelerated to light speed every other object in the universe formed a black hole due to your relative velocities))

((Take a close look at the technical drawing. Look especially at the left and right end perspectives. Not the same - very poor quality CAD for a billion dollar project.))

A billion? How do you know it’s a CAD drawing?

((If you have contact with Boomer please attempt to verify the elapsed time (on his internal chronometer) for his trip from 2036 to 1975. I need that data for a calculation.))

The first leg takes me to 1998. I think I said that quite a few times.

((He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a "small mountain".))

If that were true, the unit could not be moved. I only refrenced the mass of a small mountain in one of our physics conversations. In fact, I believe I said the mass for the singularities in the distortion unit was much smaller.

((The last time I checked the physics I didn't see an "on-off" switch for a black hole or any other singularity.))

Me neither. I don’t believe I said you could turn it on or off.

((At 2 g acceleration you will be traveling just a tad faster than a Chevy pick-up in short order (about one year to reach light speed).))

This is the one that really disappoints me. Even you should know that Einstein’s thought experiment in the isolated elevator was based on the idea that the effects of acceleration and gravity are the same. I never said acceleration had anything to do with how the unit operates.

((Does it really make sense that his handlers would authorize a personal vacation with their billion-dollar machine?))

I’m looking at my orders and I don’t see the word vacation on it anywhere. You had my hopes up for a moment. Interesting how quickly a billion-dollars has become a fact now.

((And, though he's never said that he hasn't let anyone else come close to the machine, who took the picture of his two hands in one of the photos?))

When did I say that? I’ll have to let Pamela explain the laser pointer picture. She may already have posted the email I sent earlier.

Here are a few other comments I found interesting:

((The answer to the question, "How does a person born in 1998 use the language...?" is - who knows?))

I agree. How would you know?

((The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.))

I’ll have to point that out to my “handlers” when I get back.

((I suppose that if you were interested in verification of Boomer's science that you could go right to the source, Dr. Frank Tipler, Tulane University, for an interview.))

He’s a very pleasant gentleman. I highly recommend his book, The Physics of Immortality. I believe I made reference to this earlier.

((…what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard?))

This is the second time I've seen a reference to the unit as a weapon. I would submit that the people of this worldline have nothing to fear from me. What would you do with the unit?

((J.C. …I like the way Darby thinks))

Now there’s an endorsement.

For more information on black holes and sigularities, I did find this site.

http://www.rdrop.com/users/green/school/primordi.htm

In your opinion, what is the smallest mass that can form a singulairty? Even Hawking suggested primordial singularities were created at the Big Bang. Were there planets (or half planets) around to form them then?

Based on your ability to draw conclusions about someone’s profile from their typed words I find it hard to believe you would make such errors in the syntax and meaning of the exact same words. Unfortunately, you have now maneuvered yourself into a position where I have the last word and our debate must has come to an end. Boomer isn’t a bad name and I sort of like it. Thanks TarBaby.

JAY:

((If there were an infinite number of realities, then there would necessarily arise a reality that somehow causes there to be no other realities. In fact, an infinite number of such realities would have to arise that cause there to be no other realities.))

Yes!! Excellent insight. I would have enjoyed a conversation on this.

I’m really going to miss my friend J.C. Although I did find a buried layer of truth and dedication in what his message was he never failed to make me smile in his attempt to make it. I couldn’t help but post a few choice comments he’s made over the last few months.

((Further more, my identity in the future would most likely be changed... Nevertheless, if you have been to the future, you know who I am. No doubt about that... ))

((Just start naming historical figures in your "time" or stop saying that you are a time traveler.))

((Hey, listen up... As a Time Traveler to the future my self, I have seen the uniforms. I have even put one on. Therefore, if TimeTraveler_0 <JOHN> can offer us a picture of his uniform as proof, I will verify it's legitimacy with the one I wore.))

((And about GW Bush, I don't know what to tell you. Although I have an uncle that looks like him.))

((How many times have I said to band Time Travel?))

(( And oh, that unknown variable, it's me. You didn't plan on encountering resistance. Especially a TimeTravelActivist. Hey this sounds more like something that would happen at the end of a Scobby Do cartoon. "You rotton kids..."))

(( So in retro-pects, I sense you have anger in me, for having morals and a sense of ethics on this issue of Time Travel.))

((What do you have to lose that you haven't already messed up already.))

((I mean no disrespect, but you don't seem to have the wisdom that I would expect someone from an advanced future would have. Your ideals are to liberal, much like in the 70's where things were all about Sex, drugs and free love. Nasty...))

((I have been trying not to attack anyone since my return. And look at you, you hypocrite. Calling me an "agitator."))

((Which is probably why so many people believe your story. But your not Anti-Time Travel like me. None of you have ever been manipulated by a Time Travelers plan for 21 years. Which is not to say they are, and you just don't know it.))

This one is my favorite.

((I'd just like to say, before John Titor, (A.K.A. TT_0 in the post where he's been taken out almost) that when he posts, he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it's been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I'd just wanted to point that out before he did it again.))

((By the way, not to be picky or anything. But I know how perfect you like to have things with your writing. I just wanted to point out that you misspelled CHOOSEN. It’s Chosen, with one O.))

((Some Yang will always exist to oppose some Ying.))

((A person doesn't have to be aggressive to be a @&^$#%. As you can tell, he's been using his superior intellect, to manipulate and control his agenda here. Or am I the only one who can see that?))

Here are a few other things I found in our general conversations which might be worth repeating:

Me: “By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the “cities” and the “country” was well defined. My father made a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems…”

I believe it was a few days ago I saw a news story about potential problems with power that “might” affect the entire United States. Where do you think they’ll turn it off first when push comes to shove?

Me: “ However, there are a great many “non lethal” weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.”
Anyone for microwave popcorn?

Me: If you push a farmer too far, they stop growing food and have nothing to do but hide in the woods and shoot back.”

Second Vermont Sheep Herd Seized
By Wilson Ring
Associated Press Writer
Friday, March 23, 2001; 10:42 a.m. EST
EAST WARREN, Vt. –– Federal agents early Friday seized a second flock of Vermont sheep suspected of having been exposed to a form of mad cow disease.

Friday, March 23 9:08 PM SGT
Britain extends culling of healthy animals to whole country
LONDON, March 23 (AFP) -
Britain stepped up its fight against foot-and-mouth disease Friday, announcing measures to slaughter animals throughout the country and not just in three targeted areas.

I also want to thank Pamela for helping me with the email and everyone else who asked intelligent and insightful questions. I have learned a great deal.

My parting thought revolves around something J.C. has been harping on since day one. No, I do not have a secret agenda but I have been paying a great deal of attention to your worldline. My interaction with you was not a direct mission parameter but it was a secondary mission protocol based on standing orders given to all temporal drivers. That secondary objective is basically to gather as much information about a worldline based on a set of observable variables when we first arrive. Your worldline met those conditions. What amazes me is why no one here wonders why Y2K didn’t hit them at all?

Bring a gas can with you when the car dies on the side of the road.

Farewell.

John
I might have a newscast for Paranormalis! I want that hoaxer to shoot his shot!
 

Liberty

Member
Messages
479
Even being an old engineering student that didnt get that far! Im never on the physics side of things! Being an ex sodier, (amongs something else.) Investigations are more up my alley. For tonight for example. A city council member wanting to call the national guard to Camden, NJ is one of those signs we were warned about! We lose our
freedom every day! One of the strangest things last week is when i went to a store and looking for bicycle tires for a kids bike. They were made out of KEVLAR! It hits your soul that the posibility of time travel is 100%!
 

DarbyII

Junior Member
Messages
53
Even being an old engineering student that didnt get that far! Im never on the physics side of things! Being an ex sodier, (amongs something else.) Investigations are more up my alley. For tonight for example. A city council member wanting to call the national guard to Camden, NJ is one of those signs we were warned about! We lose our
freedom every day! One of the strangest things last week is when i went to a store and looking for bicycle tires for a kids bike. They were made out of KEVLAR! It hits your soul that the posibility of time travel is 100%!

You see, that doesn't make much sense (looking for bicycle tires) if you actually believe Titor's Saga. You live in Trenton. You might escape being actually inside the Philadelphia Fireball in Titor's Nuclear War. But your bike tires will, within a few milliseconds, become a part of the green glass parking lot called Old Trenton along with the inhabitants thereof. Remember, you are the enemy in Titor's War. It's the country folks vs. city dwellers. People, for instance, who live in the Boston-New York-Philadelphia Metropolis. Hydrogen bombs, fast neutrons, EM pulses, hypersonic shock waves, thermal pulses, nuclear decay products and gamma rays have a hard time identifying friend/foe and combatants/non-combatants. They're kind of dumb that way, my friend.

There is a dark upside. All the nukes will not hit Philadelphia simultaneously. They'll be a few minutes apart from each other. The decay products of each blast will be emitting delayed neutrons for a few minutes and the Ruskies don't want predetonation of follow-on devices because of neutron flux from earlier detonations. So if you survive the first gadget and you pedal really, really fast you might be able to get away for the subsequent strikes. ;)

You plan to leave Trenton for (I don't know where but on a continent near Antarctica) very soon, yes? Refer to "On the Beach", Director Stanley Kramer - another nuclear holocaust movie/novel cr. the time of "Alas, Babylon" for prognosis.
 

Liberty

Member
Messages
479
I will explain! (You have to be me Darby to understand!) Titor mentioned "Bicycle tire manufacturers." In 2001. China took over this market. (I just notice this while SHOPPING!) It is strange to me that Kevlar is used when in fact Kevlar is in top MILTARY uses today. The viet cong used bicycles on the ho-chi-min trail to move supplies.

Titor left a lot of hints.

Your talking about nuclear excange! (Im out of first strike range.)

Oh yea! Good old "Fort UF."
http://chalkboard.blogs.gainesville.com/2011/10/uf-students-carry-empty-gun-holsters-in-protest/

"Those who don't have full holsters today, will have them later." -Liberty
 

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