US civil war

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
US civil war

Darkwolf,

Your scenario is well thought out; I am deeply disturbed.


August, I take no credit for it. It has happened roughly that way over and over in smaller countries. Don't see why it would be too different here.
 

BrandonwasWrong

New Member
Messages
17
US civil war

It has happened throughout history as well. I believe it is very possible given the right turn of events. No one should completely write it off as impossible due to the strength of the US military.
 

Ralan

Member
Messages
361
US civil war

I think it might it the US the worst because so many people living there have been so convinced of their safety by the militant domination of their government over the rest of the world; in fact this only makes them more at risk.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
US civil war

Some things to consider from my legally-poisoned store of proposed surveys:

1. There will be a draft no matter which guy is elected, because you cannot carry on a war with Reservists and the Guard, who are already showing signs of refusing to go into the line of fire. Kerry's promise of no draft depends upon the successful pullout from Iraq, which is questionable; Bush's people already have Iran in their sites. Ask ten voters under the age of 20 whether the pending draft will affect their choice on November 2.

2. Try this exercise. Go to the nearest law library and look up the Executive Order from 1984 known as REX-84 (Reagan Executive Order 1984, I guess). I mean, try to look it up. Searching on the internet doesn't count. Since you're there, look up a Supreme Court case called Korematsu, and one called Bakke, which cites Korematsu. Report to us why you think the government will not mass-arrest citizens in the near future.

3. Go up to the nearest Marine (currently serving or not-- it doesn't matter) and politely ask him whether and under what circumstances he would ever fire on a fellow citizen. Now ask the nearest cop. Compare the answers and report to us. If you are a Marine or cop, or ex-Marine cop, or retired, your task is to ask yourself and report. I don't mean to exclude the other services; it's just an exercise.
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
US civil war

3. Go up to the nearest Marine (currently serving or not-- it doesn't matter) and politely ask him whether and under what circumstances he would ever fire on a fellow citizen. Now ask the nearest cop. Compare the answers and report to us. If you are a Marine or cop, or ex-Marine cop, or retired, your task is to ask yourself and report. I don't mean to exclude the other services; it's just an exercise.


To defend my life or that of an innocent. Period. For the cop part. Some soldiers will do it, some won't. The problem will come when they are asked to do something like block search homes, and people shoot at them. Then they will shoot back like anyone in their right mind when shot at.
 

Maddog

New Member
Messages
8
US civil war

As has been said prior to the Election the sabers were being rattled about Iran and Syria, so if the US goes forth and takes on those two, then maybe Civil unrest will occur.

US Soldiers would be fighting Wars and "Peace Keeping"on 4 fronts, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and Iran (5 if you count the 150,000 US Troops stationed near North Korea) already the Soldiers involved are over staying their normal call up times.

So again as has been said, that means if another two are added, then there will have to be Conscription, if you go by the Election 48% of the Population did not want Bush in. So in theory there could be an uprising and Civil War if Conscription is introduced, after all voter turn out only sits at around 25% of people of voting age, so that's 48% of 25% of the Population, not wanting Bush. What of the rest who did not vote, where do they stand if another War (or Wars) happen, sure maybe they should of voted, however it may not stop them taking to the streets.

Then what if it goes down like it did in Nixons time:

America Kills Its Children.

Kent State, May 4, 1970, students came out on the Kent State campus and scores of others to protest the bombing of Cambodia-- a decision of President Nixon's that appeared to expand the Vietnam War. Some rocks were thrown, some windows were broken, and an attempt was made to burn the ROTC building. Governor James Rhodes sent in the National Guard.

The units that responded were ill-trained and came right from riot duty elsewhere; they hadn't had much sleep. The first day, there was some brutality; the Guard bayonetted two men, one a disabled veteran, who had cursed or yelled at them from cars. The following day, May 4th, the Guard, commanded with an amazing lack of military judgment, marched down a hill, to a field in the middle of angry demonstrators, then back up again. Seconds before they would have passed around the corner of a large building, and out of sight of the crowd, many of the Guardsmen wheeled and fired directly into the students, hitting thirteen, killing four of them, pulling the trigger over and over, for thirteen seconds. (Count out loud--one Mississippi, two Mississippi, to see how long this is.) Guardsmen--none of whom were later punished, civilly, administratively, or criminally--admitted firing at specific unarmed targets; one man shot a demonstrator who was giving him the finger. The closest student shot was fully sixty feet away; all but one were more than 100 feet away; all but two were more than 200 feet away. One of the dead was 255 feet away; the rest were 300 to 400 feet away. The most distant student shot was more than 700 feet from the Guardsmen.

Some rocks had been thrown, and some tear gas canisters fired by the Guard had been hurled back, but (though some of the Guardsmen certainly must know the truth) no-one has ever been able to establish why the Guard fired when they were seconds away from safety around the corner of the building. None had been injured worse than a minor bruise, no demonstrators were armed, there was simply nothing threatening them that justified an armed and murderous response. In addition to the demonstrators, none of whom was closer than sixty feet, the campus was full of onlookers and students on their way to class; two of the four dead fell in this category. Most Guardsmen later testified that they turned and fired because everyone else was. There was an attempt to blame a mysterious sniper, of whom no trace was ever found; there was no evidence, on the ground, on still photographs or a film, of a shot fired by anyone but the Guardsmen. One officer is seen in many of the photographs, out in front, pointing a pistol; one possibility is that he fired first, causing the others, ahead of him, to turn and fire. Or (as some witnesses testified) he or another officer may have given an order to fire. It is indisputable that the Guardsmen were not in any immediate physical danger when they fired; the crowd was not pursuing them; they were seconds away from being out of sight of the demonstration.

There was also an undercover FBI informant, Terry Norman, carrying a gun on the field that day. Though he later turned his gun into the police, who announced it had not been fired, later ballistic tests by the FBI showed that it had been fired since it was last cleaned-- but by then it was too late to determine whether it had been fired before or on May 4th.

If Bush and Co; go into Iran and Syria and start bombing them, is the above scenerio of 1970 again possible, could history repeat itself, would that start a Civil War, no doubt in my mind it could.

Interesting times ahead my friends, interesting times ahead.

EDIT:

On the point of the US going Bankrupt, have a read of this bit of the transcript from bin Laden's recent tape on CNN:

Bin Laden: Goal is to bankrupt U.S.
 

KiraSjon

Member
Messages
172
US civil war

*shudder*

So what happened to all that talk you heard on the TV about Bush pulling the troops out, Cornelia?

Do you think they would have an english translation on what you had initiall heard?
 

Cornelia

Member
Messages
234
US civil war

It's very strange. I heard it in a discussion on a TV show with highly respected politicians and journalists. But on the newspapers today, no mention. I ask myself what's happened yesterday.
 

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