Was there ever really such a thing as magic?

[gonzogirl]

Re: Was there ever really such a thing as magic?

Science and Christianity are also both in pursuit of the truth, more or less. I feel that Christianity stresses that. I've always thought that advances in early science could be attributed to that moral they both share. I guess it's kind of inevitable there would be contradictions eventually.

Now thats an understatement!

 

[Graveyard Hound]

Magic, well using some pretty old definitions, say 2,000 yrs, I'd say "yep", by my definition anyway. Anything from summoning "demons", the "Devil", controlling the weather, raising the dead, curses, spells, they have been around a long time and if there wasn't at least some validity to just a small part of it, I can see it dying out when things didn't work out as promised or predicted. Interesting to read about but I'm not redy to start sacrificing any "virgins"to see just how reliable some of the oldest "spells" are.

 

[Graveyard Hound]

By just guessing from literature, it seems that every major and minor civilization for the past, well, let's say 10,000 yrs. to be generous, has had a magical piece of its civilization, whether part of the religious framework, or seperate and apart to itself, priests helped grease the wheels that moved progress and with the priests came their knowledge of "magic", to be passed on only to the worthy "elect" of the particular civilization. The priests were really the power behind the throne, perhaps when the ruler was considered "divine", they had less sawy but make him/her mortal, and they knew who should rule and how it had to be done. throw in "magic", define it as you will, but control over the elements, contacting the dead, making decisions in affairs of state, outcomes of battles, etc., magic was involved in getting the answers. As for the "gods", to dial up Zeus or Saturn, or Odin, or any ruler of a body of gods, magic was not just customary but mandated less the gods refuse to reply or even worse, come down on you as only an "ill tempered god" can do. If a culture didn't have magic, they were alone.

 

[kcwildman]

there are far to many storys from history for it to be a total hoax. also for it to be so harshly spoken of in the BIBLE that anyone caught doing it was to be stoned there has to be some reason.
be very careful when dealing with anyone who claims to practice the stuff or they might just turn you into a toad

 

[ifeelittoo]

Don't forget what Crowley said,

"There is a single main definition of the object of all magical Ritual. It is the uniting of the Microcosm with the Macrocosm. The Supreme and Complete Ritual is therefore the Invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel; or, in the language of Mysticism, Union with God. "

It's reasonable to assume that 'white man big thunder stick' is how anyone would see technology when they come from a non-technological culture. A culture that assumes all things are magical assumes technology is magical. When, within a technological culture, we strive to reach beyond the limits of rational thought, it is fair to say that we are attempting what always has been attempted.... magick. it is an attempt to reach the same result in an other than physical way.

 

[thedude]

Things we don't understand are attributed to things words like 'metaphysical' and 'supernatural'. Magic falls into those categories but really there is not such thing as "super"natural since in the end everything comes from nature unless there is anything even beyond nature. Metaphysical is in the realm of quantum physics where things can't be seen but we know things are going on. I'm pretty certain that plenty is possible if we have the right technology or magic and it doesn't matter the method as long as the results work. Not sure if encantations ever worked but couldn't hurt anymore than any prayers.

 

[kcwildman]

exactly what kind of test could we get to prove a true wizard ???
can they have any type of tech. or jewiles, talisman,anything of the such???
are they allowed to speak???
are they allowed to make jestures move there hands?????

 

[Dionysus]

Was there ever really such a thing as magic?

Was there ever really such a thing as magic, or has it always been the name which we ascribe to things we don't understand?

It seems to me that Arthur C Clarke's "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" law of prediction is accurate... We've advanced far enough to where, at this point, there is nothing that cannot be explained by technology or science.

...at the moment of the big bang, no laws of physics were present. science did not exist. Magic

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

...at the moment of the big bang, no laws of physics were present. science did not exist. Magic

That's a little outside the scope of my original question and an easy way out I think... I could just as easily say 11th dimension physics are magic too.

I'm speaking within the frame of recorded human history (the last 20 - 40,000 years).

 

[Dionysus]

Well, to be fair string theory hasn't been proven yet and the big bang has....

I suppose it all comes down to what you define as magic.