Accumulated Doubt

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August

Junior Member
Messages
146
Accumulated Doubt

Hello all,

I have some thoughts to share with this community. I have followed the Titor event since about June 2001. Though I have spent much time as a believer, I have now accumulated some doubt and I should share it.

I owe very little to the m-oron-s at Anomalies. They have their own church over there. And it is full of C+ physics students. I owe much, however, to TampaUSA, Cornelia, Paul, Anoah, Hack and others for my scepticism. I owe my conclusions to a few other smart people I could debate this with in person.

The Two Crucial Attributes of the Titor Event

The two following points do not debunk Titor. They do provide enough doubt for one to move on to other topics of interest. I came to this forum for the truth. I am happy to settle for true doubt.

The Internet Forum as Church, Facilitator, and Gulag

Any formal religion cannot survive without a locus for practitioners to congregate. An agreed upon space is necessary: church, shrine, temple. The locus is the prime part of any "organized" religion. An internet forum holds all the attributes of this space save the phsyciality. In a forum we can congregate, discuss, learn, and shore up our faith. A thread I have been most loyal to now appears to be the most religious: Titor's predictions starting to come true. Were I in the catacombs beneath Rome around 60AD, waiting for the Messiah's return, I could not be more Christian in my participation. We come to this shrine for insight, strength, truth, or just interaction with other believers. The Titor religion is special though: it is the only one where the believers and the heathens congregate at the same time.

The nature of the internet facilitates the Titor event. No one knows the truth behind any particular post. We know the bad spellers among us. But who is the one posting? What is their real name? What are their motivations? Who is really a part of what group? For every hoaxer debunked there are a million half-truths and falsities that thrive. Could the Titor "team" have been ten individuals? Forty? My name is not MNC. Does the internet facilitate more falsity than truth? Future culture critics will see this website and others as being a necessary part of the Titor event.

The internet allows for an exchange of ideas. It does not (currently) allow for vigorous debate. Posting a counter argument, quoting your opponent, and waiting for the reply in a forum will never replace four or five minds actively engaging each other in the seminar, parlor, or living room, looking each other in the eye. Socrates feared writing because he knew his written ideas could never defend themselves the way he could in person. The internet shares this heritage. We think the internet has opened up new worlds for us. And it has. But it has isolated us and obscured the one "world" that brought us here: vigorous debate. The Titor event thrives on this new isolation. Smart people cannot argue here the way they can at the kitchen table or at the pub. This is the new gulag. We believe we are interacting on a higher level but we are not; we are interacting from the electronic equivalent of a wooden cabin in Siberia. I hope you are enjoying my note from Siberia.

A Genius, a Visionary, a Deluded Messiah

My favorite Arthur Conan Doyle quote is "Talent instantly recognizes genius, but mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself".

If you read his posts and believe Titor was a college student, or you believe he was a garden variety anti-government type or some combination of the "types" we pin on him, then there is nothing I can do for you. The individual responsible for this Event is a genius in the truest sense of the word. His mind stands above us all.

Our history is full of individuals who could "see" the future. We call them visionaries. When Henry Ford closed his eyes at night he could see the highways now crossing America. Einstein saw nuclear politics long before the cold war. Thomas Jefferson knew slavery would eventually be a problem for the states of the union. None of these men made "predictions" but they had a good sense where the day's events and progress would lead. Titor was such a visionary. He could "see" a security vs. freedom struggle long before the rest of us. He also decided to share that vision as best he could.

All of us can be divided into two groups: those who want to save and those who want to be saved. In a past life I was a teacher. When one of my colleagues saw my final grade list, she said, "Oh you are such a Catholic--you want to save all the souls". She was referring to the fact that I failed few. She was right. I wanted to "save" them. John Titor was from the same camp. He wanted to save us. He believed in his vision and figured out the best way to promote it and thereby save as many as possible. He took it to the internet where it finds new converts each week.

Conclusion

So these dual attributes are central, crucial to the event: the gulag and the genius. Though the truth cannot be found, the doubt can. And, strangely, it is the doubt that sets you free.

To be sure, America is trekking through a difficult time as I write this. Things might get worse before they get better.

But I am now free of this; I am not saying goodbye, though. I enjoy the minds in this community too much, though from a hut in Siberia.
 

Cornelia

Member
Messages
234
Accumulated Doubt

I'll leave any comment to other members in their huts... there we lie, as pearls.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Accumulated Doubt

Originally posted by MNC@Sep 23 2004, 01:31 PM

... The individual responsible for this Event is a genius in the truest sense of the word. His mind stands above us all.

Our history is full of individuals who could \"see\" the future. We call them visionaries. ... Titor was such a visionary. He could \"see\" a security vs. freedom struggle long before the rest of us. He also decided to share that vision as best he could.

... He wanted to save us. He believed in his vision and figured out the best way to promote it and thereby save as many as possible. He took it to the internet where it finds new converts each week.



Visionary genius and savior proselytizing on the internet-- or-- composite character using information gained through secret technology to influence people in order to affect events.

The difficulty posed by the Titor enigma is that human nature makes us want him to be who and what he says he is, in spite of his apocalyptic "vision," which I prefer to call a "version." He is a "versionary." The most reliable solution, though, has nothing to do with faith beyond faith in reason.

I have faith in reason at least. That is, the least I can do to contribute to solving the problem is to weigh it rationally. It's the only perspective we can all share, and logic is like music and love-- another universal language.

Logic teaches us that we should examine the simplest and most familiar explanations first. Judging between an individual genius (a type not common in the world) and a composite character (whose skills might be the contributions of multiple individuals), I find the latter more probable. I find the conclusion bolstered by the fact that John Titor is an admittedly false name and that "he" has a wide range of interests and bases of information.

Judging whether it is a voice from the present or from the future, I find that the voice in question is informed by too many contemporary choices in diction, style, and subject matter not to be the former, that is, a present-day voice. And here is where the enigma begins to resist unraveling.

Judging between a voice or character informed by events which have yet to transpire and one which is strangely talented at prediction, reason tells me that the strange talent is less common. That is, it is contrary to reason that a person should be able to foretell events, and consistent with what is known of the world that the accuracy of predictions is founded on material foreknowledge. Yet, it is more reasonable that a person would know the future by having "seen" it or "read" it than by having transported himself "from" it.

My tentative conclusion is, therefore, that should Titor prove to have accurately predicted the future, he has secret knowledge of it gained not necessarily by having been there himself; and that, given the provably false nature of many of his detailed claims, and the unlikelihood of his being a single individual, that "he" has an ulterior agenda or material purpose in concealing his true character and the true story.

In fact, a story that slowly emerged as bogus would be an ideal cover for an actual time traveler or one who had gained unorthodox access to the future by some means; and it is our experience that such technology and such techniques would be almost exclusively in the hands of the government, due to the combination of expense, faculty, and clandestine research marking such government projects.

Government agents as their ordinary method of operation employ disinformation, disguise, cover stories, and "plausible deniability." They have also for decades made use of "scenario" technology, in which thousands of potential "futures" are rehashed to try to derive appropriate responses, many of which involve End of the World and Nuclear holocaust versions.

It was therefore my conclusion that, if Titor proves to be legitimate in any sense, he will turn out to be a composite or committee and a government project connected to expensive secret technology, and on a mission to affect or deflect social situations and political events. Undoubtedly the mission would be cast in terms of defense or security, giving a moral gloss to the project.

Nothing prevents Titor from gaining the stature of a messiah, especially over time as the original story gains the crust of obscurity and memory. Likewise, nothing prevents the interpretation of Jesus Christ as a time traveler or alien, or foreign agent or manipulated dupe, who, over centuries, gained the aura of the supernatural by means of literature and, more importantly, commentary on the original text which becomes incorporated as sacred scripture with the original.
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Accumulated Doubt

Doubt is a very good thing as it inspires us to refuse to be complacent regarding that which we come in contact with and conspires to keep us from being gullable.

I have visited Anomalies. It reminded me of a shark tank that had been neglected for a month in regards to feeding.

From following most of these threads you obviously should have a notion about the general consensus regarding titor. Paul has pretty much summed it up in his usual fashion of straight to the heart with a large side of eloquence.

To many factors point to this not coming from a single source. However perspectives change as new verifiable facts surface. It will prove interesting to say the least once the truth shows up.

It's obvious that the someones behind all this has an idea that something may hit the fan. I myself remember hearing some 20 years ago that the next world war would be fought by Banks. As far as real facts go, Cary has pointed out the financial tip of the iceberg that is larger than anyone cares to officially admit and commit to that makes the titor saga look tiny in scale.

You stated something from a past life. From that viewpoint, you are aware that though it may seem like the end, the reality is that it is also just the beginning. The whole world has been trekking through the muck for the last 10,000 years where some folks are somewhat sure of what has transpired the last 2,000. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to clean off from time to time and relax. Others are at battle stations 24/7 and do not have that space.

Diamonds are wrought by immense heat and pressure, then ground by itself to produce facets that perfectly reflect the light goes in. Much the same can be said about Soul. It matters not the part in this play that we are in, what matters is how much light we can share with out fellow man when the time and need arises.

Our perspective or viewpoint changes as we learn and grow. I doubt that titor moved anywhere in time. I do not doubt that a focus of several sources has pooled their resources and made sure that they have proffered a heads up in the most attention catching way to the most intelligent audience possible. However, the message since it's genesis has moved in time as we move along. There are doubts amongst most of us as to wether the majority of the population will wake up to the fact that they are being duped.

Though Atlas Holds the World, it is indeed sad that he cannot wake the fools that slumber.

I hope the fishing near your hut in Siberia goes well and that you have an abundance of Spirits, those within and of the liquid variety. Nothing like Vodka that is 20 degrees or so.
 

lev

Junior Member
Messages
144
Accumulated Doubt

Titor was such a visionary. He could \"see\" a security vs. freedom struggle long before the rest of us. He also decided to share that vision as best he could.

::.. Very, very true! ..::.. Although boomer was not the first at "seeing" the struggle, he was certainly one of the most effective at leaving a long lasting impression on his readers ..::
 

The_Ruffneck

Member
Messages
278
Accumulated Doubt

It doesn't matter if he was fake , he wanted people to see what was happening , he has done this
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Accumulated Doubt

Originally posted by The_Ruffneck@Sep 24 2004, 04:00 AM
It doesn't matter if he was fake , he wanted people to see what was happening , he has done this


I've got an idea: let's all stop thinking about this at all, cease to discuss it, don't think twice, steadfastly refuse to examine anything else about it. End of discussion. It all leads to madness. Let's stick to the Coca Cola commercials from now on.
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Accumulated Doubt

Hey!

What about "Boomer Cola" "If you've got the Time, Boy, Do We got a Story For You"

Brought to you by Titco, Makers of fine Fantasies, Beverages, Holy Oil From The Corns Of Fakirs & Holy Men, and Quasi Religious Personalities.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Accumulated Doubt

Originally posted by lev@Sep 23 2004, 10:17 PM
Titor was such a visionary. He could \"see\" a security vs. freedom struggle long before the rest of us. He also decided to share that vision as best he could.

::.. Very, very true! ..::.. Although boomer was not the first at "seeing" the struggle, he was certainly one of the most effective at leaving a long lasting impression on his readers ..::


There are actually other writers who are more effective in leaving their impression on this issue, and ones that will have in the long run lasted much longer on account of their eloquence... and honesty... this last quality not to be brushed over too quickly. Titor was, if you can nothing more about him with certainty, dishonest, that is, not candid, not "forthcoming" as they say, disguised, and unable to make plain, unequivocal statements longed for by his readers.

Of the living, there is Lewis Lapham, Molly Ivins, and thousands of obscure op-ed writers and writers of letters to the editor; among the dead, we can start with Thomas Paine, Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and go through a long, long list of men and women whose wisdom often carries the ring of prediction and warning.

Let's not make that much of Titor-- it's enough that he has that strange and unsettling, uncanny ring of authenticity.
 

August

Junior Member
Messages
146
Accumulated Doubt

Let's not make that much of Titor-- it's enough that he has that strange and unsettling, uncanny ring of authenticity

But You and I are not spending most of our free time at a Paine forum. We are making much of Titor, no?

uncanny ring? We are living in the days of uncanny ring--it surrounds us. Corporations are banking on it. The uncanny ring was won at Thermopylae and we have been spending it foolishly ever since.

I have my doubts. And I thank God. But make no mistake--we are making much of Titor.

It is a shame we are all not in the same room. We could have everything worked out in hours when it always takes months. Send me your response from your hut. Am I becoming anti-internet??? Yikes.
 

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