Advanced Titor Analysis;

Welcome to our community

Take a moment to sign up and join the discussion! It's simple and free.

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Advanced Titor Analysis;

1. First of all, what he is not trying to do:

??I am not affected in the least if you believe me or not.?

?I do not expect people to believe me.?

?I have nothing to sell nor do I want anyone to believe in me or take some action. What other people think of me does not affect me in the least.?

?Whether I?m a time traveler or not, I suppose there are numerous ways to view my ?story.? By the nature of the communication medium, I believe it?s impossible to prove therefore it?s impossible to believe.?


Therefore, he is not trying to get you to believe that he is a time traveler. He doesn?t care whether you believe he is from the future or not. Establishing belief in his story forms no part of his mission or purpose.

This immediately (most of the quotes are from the first few weeks of his posting) distinguishes him from the overwhelming majority of Chrono Clowns and Futurozos who visit us, who desperately want to be ?believed.?

2. Secondly, what he explicitly states that he is trying to do:

(a) To recover an IBM 5100:

?We time travel to solve problems. A great deal of effort is going into repairing the environment and infrastructure.?

??we need [the IBM 5100] in 2036? Therefore, if I were not here telling you [about the little-known special features of the 5100], that information would not be discovered for another 36 years.?

?In 2036, a great deal of effort is going into ?repairing? our environment.?

?[Time travel] is used to get information or ?items? that would be helpful in getting a post WWIII world back to a normal condition.?

??the 5100? worthwhile for a time traveler to recover. Also, please keep in mind that civilization is recovering from a war. Yes, we do have the technology but many of the tools were lost.?


(B) To warn about the coming war:

?Please, please wake up. Look at the signposts around you now.?

??I have been trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the U.S. in 2005? I have been trying to get people to pay attention for the last few months??

?[Due to the fouled-up 2000 elections] perhaps it?s easier now to see a civil war in your future??

??I am trying to prepare [my family] for the future as a promise to my Grandfather in 1975.?


This also distinguishes him from all other time travel wannabees, claimaints, wingding Future Roadrunners, and hoaxters. But it poses a fundamental paradox:

He wants us to credit what he is telling us about our future, to alert us to the coming destruction of the social order, but doesn?t want us to focus on his own credibility.

This is compounded by the psychological problem he is having being among us, whom he blames for all of the pain and destruction of his world. He appears to be assigned to avert the war that he thinks is good for us?good for him and his folk on the other side of the gulf afterward?and can?t resist letting us know that we don?t deserve the salvation.

Some other points:

1. Part of his mission is to plant the seeds for time travel technology. The hints dropped involve the ?missing? pieces of what he calls the ?puzzle,? and have to do with the power source (apparently the use of subatomic particles) as yet not ?discovered.? Yet he makes it clear that the too-soon invention of time travel can and would lead to war between the U.S., Russia, and China. This seems ludicrous, but he (who thinks the war is good for us) urges us to ?go for it.? He wants to advance the technology but would prefer, personally, not to.

2. Part of his mission is to avert both Y2K and what we might call ?Y2K+38,? the second one being the UNIX failure in 2038, which can be averted by application of the ancient 5100 software. War must be the result of these system failures as much as the violation of the Constitution by the government. In fact, three things seem to operate to result in the holocaust: the civil war starting in 2005, caused by the violation of the Constitution; catastrophic computer network systems failure in 2000; and time travel technology in the wrong hands at the wrong time. Go figure.

3. Virtually nothing in flat detail that Titor says can be trusted; he himself warns against putting your faith in him. Some of the dissembling can be attributed to deliberate disinformation, with an unknown political agenda; some to simple camouflage and selfprotection; and some to the ?divergence,? which does not exceed 2.5% in 60 years. For example, the 5100 was put together in Minnesota, according to Titor, who claims to be from Florida: but it was apparently put together in Florida?at least in ?our? worldline. For another, he at first states that Russia attacks the U.S. and China and Europe, then 2 months later he states that China attacks the U.S. and Europe-- which doesn't seem to make sense.

4. The only thing that can be said with confidence about his ?purpose? or ?mission? is that it is a multifaceted one designed to kill a number of birds with one stone, the largest bird being the impending wars. He wants the focus to be not on him but on the overall scene of the crime. He wants time travel to be invented at CERNA soon after 2000, not delayed until 2036, though he may want this in order to cause a war?he calls it the ?easiest way,? to get the technology before others. Yet when he is explicity accused of being here in order to foment a war, he becomes enraged and lashes out in such a way that it looks like he is fighting with himself about it.

5. I still think it highly probable that Jonathan Titus, the inventor of the 5100 precursor, is either the author of the Titor text or the target of it. If time travel is actually involved in all of this, he would stand in the role of the ?Grandfather? mentioned by Titor. It would be supremely apt for him to be, or for Titor to thus be his own grandfather, considering the tradition of the ?paradox.?


Discuss.
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
Advanced Titor Analysis;

Paul, I don't see where you make some of your connections. As I recall, Titor said nothing about time travel having anything to do with the conflict between the US and Russia. In fact that would be kind of difficult considering he says that it wasn't invented until after the war.

#2 He said nothing about Y2K in his net communications, and I don't think that the faxes to art Bell were from the same person. The manual was similar. There is definatly something going on behind the scenes there, but I won't venture to guess what. As to Y2K and the war being related, I don't think so. Recall that he made these predictions after Y2K didn't happen, and said that this worldline was virtually indistinguishable from his own.

For another, he at first states that Russia attacks the U.S. and China and Europe, then 2 months later he states that China attacks the U.S. and Europe-- which doesn't seem to make sense.

This makes perfect sense. The U.S. Russia, and China are the only three countrys in the world who could first throw much nuclear power around, and secondly take advantage of the situation if the other two launched on each other. None of them would want to leave a powerful third party standing to take over when they and the other had knocked each other to their knees. Any major exchange would probably involve each superpower launching on and being hit by both of the others.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Advanced Titor Analysis;

Originally posted by Darkwolf@Jan 13 2005, 01:51 AM
Paul, I don't see where you make some of your connections. As I recall, Titor said nothing about time travel having anything to do with the conflict between the US and Russia. In fact that would be kind of difficult considering he says that it wasn't invented until after the war.

He said that he could think of no quicker and easier way to start a war than to have one of the main powerful nations invent time travel. I don't know why he said so, but that's what he said. He said this more than once. Also, he said that all of the components for the technology were now at hand, and that recent developments would bring it closer. He said that all that was lacking at the moment was the power source, which had something to do with as-yet unknown and exotic subatomic particles.

In other words, on his worldline, it wasn't invented until 2034; on ours, he himself was partly responsible for its earlier invention.

#2 He said nothing about Y2K in his net communications, and I don't think that the faxes to art Bell were from the same person. The manual was similar. There is definatly something going on behind the scenes there, but I won't venture to guess what. As to Y2K and the war being related, I don't think so. Recall that he made these predictions after Y2K didn't happen, and said that this worldline was virtually indistinguishable from his own.

He could be speaking of nothing else when he asks what notorious event that was highly expected did not come to pass "within the last year and a half." The FAXs are clearly from the same person, and even contain some of the same phrases. Moreover, in his posts, he states that he had gone to 1998, and his trips all seem to have taken place in the Springtime. I do not think that it is altogether clear that he appeared in 2000; he states that he has been around for "months." He also stated that his worldline was at maximum 2.5% divergent between 2036 and 1975. He did not say that it was "indistinguishable" from ours.

...The U.S. Russia, and China are the only three countrys in the world who could first throw much nuclear power around, and secondly take advantage of the situation if the other two launched on each other. None of them would want to leave a powerful third party standing to take over when they and the other had knocked each other to their knees. Any major exchange would probably involve each superpower launching on and being hit by both of the others.

I think you are probably right about this, but my point was that he did not talk about the war this way all at one time. He described the nuclear exchange as a sneak attack on a distracted U.S., with China and Europe thown in for good measure. That was in November, 2000; in February, 2001, he doesn't mention the "sides" of the combatants, but only that China attacked the U.S. and Europe-- omitting to mention Russia. I think that this is an error on his part, or that he'd forgotten what he'd said before.

China is not now capable of launching an attack of this type on all three targets, and even less so if hit unexpectedly. Of course, Titor says nothing about an arms buildup in China or whether it expected to be bombed. As I understand it, the U.S. would be the only nation capable of hitting that many continents all at once with any substantial effect.


Good answers. Next?
 

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,438
Advanced Titor Analysis;

Great analysis Paul. While Titor did say that inventing a time machine, or time travel technology would be a great way to start a war, he said that Russia nuked the U.S. in 2015. He also said that time travel technology was not effective until 2036. Maybe he wanted the time travel technology to be invented sooner on this time line to expedite a nuclear war and possibly avoid some part of the civil war in the U.S.? I don't know, just my thoughts.

I appreciate your analysis as always. But I'm curious. Why the new flurry of interest in analyzing Titor on your part? Especially the time travel and future events aspects of it. I don't think it's a bad thing, I just thought you were in the camp of believing that Titor was a government disinformation program. Maybe that's your answer. You're trying to figure out what was the motivation behind the disinformation program. I appreciate your new analysis, but don't understand the motivation. No big deal, just interesting to me.

Cary
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
Advanced Titor Analysis;

He said that he could think of no quicker and easier way to start a war than to have one of the main powerful nations invent time travel. I don't know why he said so, but that's what he said. He said this more than once. Also, he said that all of the components for the technology were now at hand, and that recent developments would bring it closer. He said that all that was lacking at the moment was the power source, which had something to do with as-yet unknown and exotic subatomic particles.


True, I was saying that it didn't seem to have anything to do with the war he discribed.
The power source might have something to do with anti matter. It seems to be a by product of the same or a similar process to the one that creates the black holes. As a weapon it is to nukes as nukes are to gunpowder. Any serious attempt to turn it into a weapon could well start a war.
Since one cannot actually alter the timeline of origin with it, I don't see how anyone would consider time travel it'self dangerous enough to fight over.

He could be speaking of nothing else when he asks what notorious event that was highly expected did not come to pass \"within the last year and a half.\" The FAXs are clearly from the same person, and even contain some of the same phrases. Moreover, in his posts, he states that he had gone to 1998, and his trips all seem to have taken place in the Springtime. I do not think that it is altogether clear that he appeared in 2000; he states that he has been around for \"months.\" He also stated that his worldline was at maximum 2.5% divergent between 2036 and 1975. He did not say that it was \"indistinguishable\" from ours.

When asked if his timeline was different from ours he said something like "from my perspective yes, from yours no." I took that to mean that the same major events would happen. In the faxes, the Y2K disaster, and resulting communal government had alot to do with the civil war. He made the perdiction that we would be embroiled in civil war starting this year after Y2K didn't happen. So I would think that for some reason he wanted it to happen as it would illeviate soeme of the things that would happen later.

China is not now capable of launching an attack of this type on all three targets, and even less so if hit unexpectedly. Of course, Titor says nothing about an arms buildup in China or whether it expected to be bombed. As I understand it, the U.S. would be the only nation capable of hitting that many continents all at once with any substantial effect.


He didn't need to mention it. It was happening at a rather amazing rate in 2000 and continues to happen now. If your curious about it, I recommend the book Red Dragon Rising. I will edit later with the authors. Now, China could do Russia and us some dammage. In ten years worse. Especially if they are running around annexing and invading like JT said.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Advanced Titor Analysis;

Originally posted by CaryP@Jan 13 2005, 03:59 PM
I appreciate your analysis as always. But I'm curious. Why the new flurry of interest in analyzing Titor on your part? Especially the time travel and future events aspects of it. I don't think it's a bad thing, I just thought you were in the camp of believing that Titor was a government disinformation program. Maybe that's your answer. You're trying to figure out what was the motivation behind the disinformation program. I appreciate your new analysis, but don't understand the motivation. No big deal, just interesting to me.

Cary


You have to keep your mind open to the possibilities. At this point, too many questions are posed by the disinformation scenario?more than are answered by it. For instance, if you were an agent attempting to secure a militarist state against Constitutionalists, wouldn?t you find yourself a reactionary on the internet instead of a claimed Constitutional partisan?

The disinformation agent is someone like ?Cadet? on the old forum, who kept chanting that it would be impossible to wage war against the government due to the advantages in arms. Of course, he wrote that before the imperial army became stymied in Iraq.

Why would someone who wants to suppress dissent and revolution pose on the internet as someone who was a veteran of it and who passionately urged his audience to prepare for war with the government?

Another thing is this deal with his ?grandfather,? who was said to have been one of the developers of the IBM 5100. We all know by now what the ?grandfather paradox? is, right? Well, if John Titor is actually Jonathan Titus, who is an actual person instrumental in the development of the first PC, of which the 5100 was the first marketed prototype, then Titor is his own grandfather?a kind of inside joke, or allusion.

Since the paradox is meant to show the impossibility of time travel, or apparent impossibility, the text of the Titor narrative demonstrates the opposite, and a conciliation of premises that eliminates the paradox. The paradox is eliminated by the proposition of alternate timelines, but the story as told by Titor is a demonstration or enactment of it.

Another thing is that Titor?s civil war actually doesn?t start until 2005. He repeatedly mentions 2005 as the clear point in history (e.g., ?It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief? but you will find that out for yourself in 2005.? ?For a few months now I have been trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in 2005.?) when the war ?starts.?

It isn?t even obvious to everyone that a war is under way until 2008, when it becomes general. Until then, the public is a pack of drowsing sheep, according to Titor, and doesn?t give him much hope that the holocaust can be averted.

This is not the approach you would think that a double spy or disinformation agent would take. He would try to suppress any information flowing back to the past, because it would represent a risk to the control of what is known and predicted, and stand the chance of rousing the rebel spirit. Look for the government agents among those who went to great lengths to debunk Titor to his face.

But of course I could be wrong. I am trying to find the explanation that answers as many of the questions as possible in a reasonable fashion, and in the simplest way possible. Nevertheless, a couple of things continue to nag me:

1. His uncanny predictions about the ?next war,? which he says will be based on the ?BS? that Iraq has nuclear weapons capabilities;

2. His suggestions that the impending civil war has something to do with the stolen 2000 election; that its root causes can somehow be seen in it;

3. His unassailable understory, or innerstory, which he makes no effort to either conceal or elaborate upon in spite of the tremendous pressure to ?prove? himself.


Regarding the first two, much has already been said. It is only when I look closely into the third that I get a bad chill up my spine.

I have a spine, and I?m not afraid to confront what looks like a strong possibility: that the Titor story is in fact a story about what lies ahead for us, and what choices we can make to save ourselves.

I also have more guts than you can hang on a fence, and I fit a bunch of other colorful phrases as well. I have more than enough sense to pour ###### out a boot whether or not the instructions are printed on the heel.

I can easily identify Shinola, and a hole in the ground, and the difference between these and other things. So you can trust me, or you can call me a crackpot, and I might change my mind tomorrow, but this is what I think:

On November 12, or just after the 2000 election, Titor makes the statement that he has been trying for a few months to ?alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war. Does that seem more likely now? ? to see it unfold is very interesting? Florida?s votes??

He seems to have come to the internet as a way of reaching anyone else ?that would listen,? and thinks that maybe the stolen national election might make the ?possibility of a civil war? more apparent to his audience.

He is asked whether he had traveled to the past ?to observe the results of the presidential election,? and he answers (on Nov. 11) like this:

?I would use the word ?elections? a bit cautiously. Perhaps it?s easier now to see a civil war in your future??

He analogizes his situation to being in Germany before WWII, ?knowing what will come but no one will listen to you,? and telling you that ?the situations you describe could never happen,? which gives him a feeling of ?sadness that you cannot see what I see.?

He is in 2000 to help his grandparents prepare for the war, and the one thing he wishes we all would do is wake up and see the signs everywhere of what is to come. However, as a side effect of being here for that purpose, he notices that there is no ?Pearl Harbor.? The war will still undoubtedly come, but will not be started with the same catastrophic event. What is Pearl Harbor to the line of history beginning in 2004-05?

?Yes, the Pearl Harbor example relates to Y2K. Have you considered that I might already have accidentally screwed with your worldline?? (Feb. 2, 2001)

Y2K is an instigating event of some kind for the sequence of events leading up to the holocaust of nuclear war. The turning point would be the American civil war, without which the nuclear war might not have happened. When he is pressed to explain his analogy about Pearl Harbor, on Nov. 21, he writes

?For a change, I have a question for all of you. I want you to think very hard. What major disaster was expected and prepared for in the last year and a half that never happened??

Therefore, as a side-effect of his mission to recover the 5100 (to avert Y2K+38), he has managed to eliminate Y2K, apparently by accident. Y2K was apparently an instigating event for the civil war and WWIII in his world, and he still remains uncertain that ours will completely avoid the wars.

Y2K could have set us up for a civil war by virtue of its continuing consequences blamed on the government; a strong antigovernment movement starts, the feds crack down, social unrest, hand FEMA the keys. The crashed computer systems and networks resulted in a catastrophic political upheaval?as of course it well might.

Titor is clearly time traveling, if he is actually, to prevent the war. He just can?t tell us how to prevent it, or be blunt or direct. The only way he can do it is to seed the process of peace from behind a mask. The mask causes disbelief and debunking, and preoccupies all of the retentives on Anomalies.

Y2K is apparently in a group of necessary precedent events to the world of circumstances in which the End of the World occurs. But it is not the only such event that can render history more or less the same as the one Titor knows.

It could be argued that 911 has interceded to serve in its place?and per the Art Bell FAX, 911 apparently didn?t happen on Titor?s home line. Since 911 occurs 21 months after the Y2K moment, it has perhaps also delayed public dissatisfaction past the 2004 onset of Waco-type incidents.

It shouldn?t take long for the 911 worldline to catch up to the one familiar to Titor, but the gap was exploited by Titor in the only way available to him, and for the purpose of alerting us.

If you will reread the Titor material, you?ll see that this interpretation satisfies your questions in a remarkable number of directions. Whether or not it?s true? I suppose we will discover that, as he wrote, this year.
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
Advanced Titor Analysis;

Therefore, as a side-effect of his mission to recover the 5100 (to avert Y2K+38), he has managed to eliminate Y2K, apparently by accident. Y2K was apparently an instigating event for the civil war and WWIII in his world, and he still remains uncertain that ours will completely avoid the wars.


Wait a sec. He has a relitively complete picutre of what happens without Y2K perhaps he was supposed to cause Y2K which would do something like kick off the civil war early before the gvt is ready. This could explain why he was insistant that the war would happen in 05 instead of some unknown time. He may have had a glimpse of both futures and found the one on which the Y2K bug hit to be preferable.

Ok, Paul you brought up a good point (all of our disagreements aside, you do so very often) That mabey we should be taking these warnings very seriously.
I propose that we set up a section for discussing how to survive the possible war. Those of us who have military or other kinds of training and experience can share what we know. There would have to be some strict rules. Such as no discussion of gurilla warfare tactics, bomb making ect. Strictly survival. I want all of us to get back in touch in 2020 or so if all of this goes down. What does everybody think.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Advanced Titor Analysis;

Originally posted by Darkwolf@Jan 14 2005, 12:18 AM
I propose that we set up a section for discussing how to survive the possible war. Those of us who have military or other kinds of training and experience can share what we know. There would have to be some strict rules. Such as no discussion of gurilla warfare tactics, bomb making ect. Strictly survival. I want all of us to get back in touch in 2020 or so if all of this goes down. What does everybody think.


I think that if even a small portion of this goes down, we will all be needing each other well before 2020.

It looks like the purpose of the Titor message might be to try to alter history and avert the war altogether.

"It saddens me that you do not realize your true worth as a keeper of information and experience. Perhaps the end that we fear will open your eyes to your true value as an individual. Young people need wisdom. The captain of the ship knows where the lifeboats are." (Titor, Dec. 30, 2000)


How can we alter history?
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Advanced Titor Analysis;

That's a plate full.

A couple of things still bugging me about the whole shabang.

Y2K: Computers won't have the ability to roll over to 2001 and therefore shut down. How do we know that this wasn't some sweet dreamchild of a bored hacker / programer that worked for a large software company whose sales were lagging. What better way to stimulate sales for something than to create a need to fix something that isn't broken? Take a stab at how much sales soared for Y2K fixes and how many different versions were available for sale towards the last few months.

Any one care to take a guess at how many registers out there that have a computer in them that are unprogramable and Still functioned after the magic moment?

Modern cars all have computers in them under the passenger seat. Did all those cars quit working? Does anybody remember of anyone shelling out money to have their cars fixed because of Y2K or a recall by a car manufacturer to fix them?

Something of this smells JUST like the wizbang idea that ATT or MaBell came up with just after it was fined all those millions by the government. Remember all those years of 'rent' we have been paying for the telephone each month. Surely it was paid for in a years worth of telephone bills; if millions of them were manufactured the actual cost of one of them is very cheap. So out of the blue, the telephone company is going to sell you that telephone, which as been bought twenty times over, for the measely price of $25.00 and you won't have to pay money for it ever again (until the next scam) just Imagine how much money that scam generated for the telephone company.

My inference was that titor had nothing to do with Y2K except to realize that because it did NOT happen, proved to him that, yes, the golden 2.5% divergence was a valid clause and that he would never get back to his real line, thus he became increasingly dispondent and depressed.

The CAD drawing of Lev's regarding the machine shows two singularity chambers. The amount of force it would take to contain a singularity by way of a magnetic field in a chamber that small boggles the mind. I am all for miniturization and the rule of thumb concerning such has progressed mightlily, but if I am not mistaken accelerators are getting larger and larger are they not?
The more watts you want to run through a speaker and have it work well, doesn't the magnet have to be correspondingly big? Compare the magnet of a 5" tweeter to the one on a 12" or 16".... Something tells me that in order to generate a magnetic field powerfull enough to contain a singularity, the magnet it self is going to have to be somewhat larger than that bootlocker. And there are two of them side by side......
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
Advanced Titor Analysis;

How can we alter history?


If we are on the course he thought we were Its probably too late. We should be more worried about surviving to rebuild something better when the dust stops radiating.
think that if even a small portion of this goes down, we will all be needing each other well before 2020.


If this goes down, I don't think we can rely on reliable contact with each other. Perhaps the best use of this form would be to teach each other what we can about how to use what we do have available in the time we have left. We are from all parts of the country and world. As I said, I want to see as many of you as possible after the dust settles. I'll start the thread now.
 

Top