Debate Alternative, or Misunderstood Medicine?

Num7

Administrator
Staff
Messages
12,376
As someone suggested earlier this week, what we know as alternative medicine is not always that much related to paranormal and that's true. Why are we calling this medicine alternative then? Why aren't those things part of either regular medicine, or among the good old hoaxes?

Is it because alternative healing techniques are not always accepted by science? If so, why?

Also, I'd like to add the following: Perhaps, some healing practices that are considered alternative are just misunderstood, or completely ignored by science. If such practices are ignored by science, what are we supposed to do, what does it mean?
 

Sue

Junior Member
Messages
52
I don't think there is such thing as "alternative" medicine.. Either medicine works or it doesn't. The reason the so called alternative medicine is not part of "regular" medicine is because there's no money to be made by big pharma. Scientific medicine and "alternative" medicine have been at odds for decades. I personally believe in both that can work together which is called "complimentary" medicine. The reason alternative medicines are ignored or misunderstood by science is because the people who provide these alternatives aren't rich enough to pay them to do the studies. The difference between alternative medicine and a scientific medicine is the money involved.
 

Harte

Senior Member
Messages
4,562
You should ask Steve Jobs if that's the only difference between alternative medicine and scientific medicine.

Oh yeah. He's dead.

But you can still get an answer from him:
The Apple chief executive, who died this month after a pancreatic tumour spread elsewhere, delayed having operations and chemotherapy for nine months after the disease was discovered in October 2003.
In spite of pleas from family and friends, he tried to cure himself through acupuncture sessions, drinking special fruit juices, visiting "spiritualists" and using other treatments he found on the internet.
Some cancer experts have said that Mr Jobs may have extended his life or even survived if he had promptly tackled his cancer aggressively with scientifically proven medical treatments.
Walter Isaacson, whose much-anticipated authorised book on Mr Jobs's life is to be released later this month, said that before he died the 56-year-old had come to realise that he had made a mistake.

"We talked about this a lot," Isaacson told a television interview. "He wanted to talk about it, how he regretted it. I think he felt he should have been operated on sooner."
Asked why "such a smart man could do such a stupid thing", Isaacson said: "I think he felt: if you ignore something you don't want to exist, you can have magical thinking. It had worked for him in the past. He would regret it."
Source
Magical thinking isn't just idle fun - it can kill you.

Harte
 

Sue

Junior Member
Messages
52
You should ask Steve Jobs if that's the only difference between alternative medicine and scientific medicine.

Oh yeah. He's dead.

But you can still get an answer from him:
The Apple chief executive, who died this month after a pancreatic tumour spread elsewhere, delayed having operations and chemotherapy for nine months after the disease was discovered in October 2003.
In spite of pleas from family and friends, he tried to cure himself through acupuncture sessions, drinking special fruit juices, visiting "spiritualists" and using other treatments he found on the internet.
Some cancer experts have said that Mr Jobs may have extended his life or even survived if he had promptly tackled his cancer aggressively with scientifically proven medical treatments.
Walter Isaacson, whose much-anticipated authorised book on Mr Jobs's life is to be released later this month, said that before he died the 56-year-old had come to realise that he had made a mistake.

"We talked about this a lot," Isaacson told a television interview. "He wanted to talk about it, how he regretted it. I think he felt he should have been operated on sooner."
Asked why "such a smart man could do such a stupid thing", Isaacson said: "I think he felt: if you ignore something you don't want to exist, you can have magical thinking. It had worked for him in the past. He would regret it."
Source
Magical thinking isn't just idle fun - it can kill you.

Harte
That's why i believe in complimentary medicine.. Not just one size fits all science vs. alternative. I also have to ask even with scientific medicine that can extend life for a few months or years, what is the quality of that extended time? These would be my questions.. I mean if chemo could save me for a few more months how would i feel during those extra months? These are questions i would ask. "Some cancer experts have said that Mr Jobs may have extended his life or even survived if he had promptly tackled his cancer aggressively with scientifically proven medical treatments." I don't think any medical professional should say with any certainty that someones cancer could be cured. I don't feel they are in a position to say that. If i had cancer would i get chemo? heck yea if i knew it had a good success rate.. I know some alternative medicine is inferior to scientific medicine but it doesn't make ALL alternative medicine ineffective.. Daily multi vitamins aren't even backed by scientific research but people still take them as a complimentary medicine.. That's where i fall in the debate.. The best of both worlds based on the diagnosis and prognosis..
 

Sue

Junior Member
Messages
52
In my opinion you can't put all of your faith in one thing or the other.. my experience comes from 2 of my Aunts.. the 1st aunt had breast cancer and decided to use alternative medicine only she died at 34 of breast cancer.. My other aunt had breast cancer and had scientific medicine and she survived long enough for it to matastisize to her lungs and they removed all but half of a lung and she lives on an oxygen tank and in bed, unable to go anywhere because she's sick all the time throwing up, going to the hospital "she's in the hospital 80% of the time" for treatments etc.. Which is better? what might have happened if the alternative aunt chose chemo? would she still be alive? what if the chemo aunt added some alternative medicine to her chemo? would she have a better quality of life? who knows??? it's all a crap shoot when it comes to stuff like that.. You could ask Patrick Swayze who chose science based medicine only.. But oh wait.. He's dead too... It goes to show that neither treatment is bullet proof and we should be more accepting of anyone who has a terminal illness to accept their method of treatment because there's nothing ever certain in life.. That's my opinion.. If i was terminal i would try "everything" i possibly could and not exclude anything... I would be eclectic in my approach "why does it have to be black or white? one thing works but the other doesn't? I have an open mind and believe in science, alternative, placebo and paranormal.. all of the above i would be willing to try in that position.
 

titorite

Senior Member
Messages
1,974
IDK about the jobs argument.. So far, I been helping folks awhile with my frequency generators... They aint violet ray tubes. I can use square or sine but the lines do need to be percise , no trapezoidal, no triangle , the wave form has to be square or sine. And their are lots of youtube videos demonstrating the effect I think that had to of been part of the reason things like novocure and insightec got the full FDA go ahead, BUt for the Chemo.. First you get chemo, then you get morphine, then you get told to go home and make yourself comfortable ...... JObs got 9 more years?

What was he doing near perfectly that could be better understood and better utilized? What ever it was, it wern't chemo.
 

Harte

Senior Member
Messages
4,562
You should ask Steve Jobs if that's the only difference between alternative medicine and scientific medicine.

Oh yeah. He's dead.

But you can still get an answer from him:
The Apple chief executive, who died this month after a pancreatic tumour spread elsewhere, delayed having operations and chemotherapy for nine months after the disease was discovered in October 2003.
In spite of pleas from family and friends, he tried to cure himself through acupuncture sessions, drinking special fruit juices, visiting "spiritualists" and using other treatments he found on the internet.
Some cancer experts have said that Mr Jobs may have extended his life or even survived if he had promptly tackled his cancer aggressively with scientifically proven medical treatments.
Walter Isaacson, whose much-anticipated authorised book on Mr Jobs's life is to be released later this month, said that before he died the 56-year-old had come to realise that he had made a mistake.

"We talked about this a lot," Isaacson told a television interview. "He wanted to talk about it, how he regretted it. I think he felt he should have been operated on sooner."
Asked why "such a smart man could do such a stupid thing", Isaacson said: "I think he felt: if you ignore something you don't want to exist, you can have magical thinking. It had worked for him in the past. He would regret it."
Source
Magical thinking isn't just idle fun - it can kill you.

Harte
That's why i believe in complimentary medicine.. Not just one size fits all science vs. alternative. I also have to ask even with scientific medicine that can extend life for a few months or years, what is the quality of that extended time?
If not better than death, then it's a bad bargain.

However, experts have weighed in on Job's ultimate folly. He could possibly have been entirely cured by early surgery. The type of cancer he had has been permanently cured by surgery for the majority of cases of early detection.

These would be my questions.. I mean if chemo could save me for a few more months how would i feel during those extra months?
How would you feel? How about this - you'd feel.

These are questions i would ask. "Some cancer experts have said that Mr Jobs may have extended his life or even survived if he had promptly tackled his cancer aggressively with scientifically proven medical treatments." I don't think any medical professional should say with any certainty that someones cancer could be cured. I don't feel they are in a position to say that. If i had cancer would i get chemo? heck yea if i knew it had a good success rate.. I know some alternative medicine is inferior to scientific medicine but it doesn't make ALL alternative medicine ineffective.. Daily multi vitamins aren't even backed by scientific research but people still take them as a complimentary medicine.. That's where i fall in the debate.. The best of both worlds based on the diagnosis and prognosis..
The fact that people are ignorant is not relevant.

Harte
 

Sue

Junior Member
Messages
52
"permanently cured" and majority is not 100%.. My point in this debate is whether WE have the right to determine the wishes of someone else "alternative" or scientific.. It's all on the person who lives or dies isn't it?

How would you feel? How about this - you'd feel.
I'd feel sad and sick and "not alive" anyway.. how is that any way to live? the fact that i can feel does not supercede feeling that i am "living".. that's the beauty in having our own choices to live and treat our illness the way we feel neccessary.. I wouldn't allow you to choose how i "feel" or what the quality of my life would be if i chose one method over another.. it would be my choice and although open to interpretation and judgement.. it would still be "my" choice.. Thats the point.. I don't judge Jobs for what he chose or didn't choose.. Life is a crap shoot and if he felt comfortable in his decisions than so be it.. it was his choice.. If i was in his position i would have probably went with both alternative and science.. That's my opinion.. i don't think it's so black and white as some people assume.. I also don't assume to put myself in a position to say that as long as i'm "feeling" then i'm alive and living.. If the majority of my time is feeling sad and sick then i'd rather die and that's my choice..
 

Sue

Junior Member
Messages
52
The fact that people are ignorant is not relevant.

They aren't ignorant in their mind and it's "their" choice, not "yours" on whether they are ignorant.. I don't believe Steve Jobs was ignorant in any way.. He made a choice that was "his" to make.. Who are "WE" to say it was ignorant?? wasn't his life? his suffering? his choice? would you have chosen for him based on your beliefs? what freedom is that? Your choice might be different but it doesn't make you ignorant for it just because science says so...
 

Harte

Senior Member
Messages
4,562
The fact that people are ignorant is not relevant.

They aren't ignorant in their mind and it's "their" choice, not "yours" on whether they are ignorant.. I don't believe Steve Jobs was ignorant in any way.. He made a choice that was "his" to make.. Who are "WE" to say it was ignorant?? wasn't his life? his suffering? his choice? would you have chosen for him based on your beliefs? what freedom is that? Your choice might be different but it doesn't make you ignorant for it just because science says so...
I was talking about what you said regarding vitamin supplements.

Just because people take them and believe they are helpful and healthy, that doesn't mean they are.

Some are even harmful - if you're not malnourished - because they build up in the body.

Regarding your above post, Jobs himself clearly stated that he regretted making such a foolish mistake. How do you think he "felt" in his last months? You can add legitimate regret for one's own stupidity to the other ill feelings you mentioned.

Not to mention his personal knowledge that he very likely robbed his loved ones of many years of the enjoyment of his company and caused them unnecessary and certainly increased grief at losing him, what with their knowledge that he might have been saved, if only he'd put down the "natural" cures and followed legitimate medical advice.

Harte
 
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