Concerning JT 5100

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Fringan

Junior Member
Messages
48
Concerning JT 5100

I thought this chatlog would qualify as it's own thread. I've edited out some stuff and altered some other stuff to make it an easier thread to follow.




15:44 [Captain_Nemo] yes, i am J, who had a bid on the 5100 at one point
15:45 [Captain_Nemo] im glad i didn't win, they didn't ship to australia
15:46 [Captain_Nemo] hopefully there will be one for sale here sometime.. maybe i can grab one for cheap

15:48 [Fringan] why would you want a 5100? :)
15:48 [Captain_Nemo] only cause its interesting
15:48 [Captain_Nemo] and ill be around in 2036
15:48 [Captain_Nemo] i didn't used to believe titor at all.. i do completely now
15:48 [Fringan] there are no programmers in 2036? just pick up an emulator :)
15:49 sosuemetoo is a jt believer also
15:49 [Fringan] besides, unix will not stop working 2036 or any other year for that matter
15:49 [Captain_Nemo] who knows
15:49 [Fringan] i know :)
15:49 [Captain_Nemo] that doesn't prove anything one way or the other
15:49 [Fringan] and alot of other people who knows anything about coding
15:50 [Captain_Nemo] ive been a coder myself for a couple of years, so i know some stuff (windows based only though)

[...]

15:52 [Fringan] Captain_Nemo: there is some truth in the unix thingie
15:52 [Captain_Nemo] what part?
15:52 [Fringan] in 2038 time_t function in unix has to be changed in order to work
15:53 [Captain_Nemo] yes i read all that
15:53 [Fringan] but its an easy thing to fix
15:53 [Captain_Nemo] its too hard to tell if that part of the story is real or not.. you know how small bugs can destroy entire coding structures
15:53 [Fringan] you certanly wouldnt have to go back in time to pick up and old computer to fix the problem
15:53 [Fringan] actually, if you couldnt change the code, you could just change the date of your bios clock
15:53 [Captain_Nemo] agreed
15:54 [Fringan] but it would be better to just change time_t to a 64-bit integer

15:56 [Fringan] yeah well it was a well know fact for a decade when titor posted .. anyone with some unix knowledge could have known that, you wouldnt have come from the future in order to predict there might be some problems if you try to run un-updated unix after 2038

15:57 [KiraSjon] fring - i know zip about computers, but that sounds a lot like the y2k ordeal
16:02 [Fringan] KiraSjon: well kira its both comlicated and not :)
16:02 [Fringan] KiraSjon: the yk2-thing was a hypothetical problem that was hyped to make people buy stuff :)
16:02 [KiraSjon] now *that* i believe
16:03 [Fringan] KiraSjon: they didnt know if computer systems would manage to start counting from year 00 after 99
16:03 [Fringan] it was easy to try at home.. just setting the bios clock to 99-12-31 23:55, reboot the computer and see what happened after 5 minutes
16:04 [Fringan] and nothing happened :)
16:04 [Fringan] with the unix thing however.. values (like the time and date for example) is stored in something called variables
16:05 [Fringan] there are different kinds of variables, in this case time is stored in a format of seconds
16:05 [Fringan] so time on the computer is actually the number of seconds since the 1/1/1970
16:06 [Fringan] however time on some unix systems are stored in a 32-bit integer and the biggest number it can take is something like 2,147,483,647
16:06 [Fringan] and that is the number of seconds from 1/1/1970 to 1/19/2038
16:07 [Fringan] so after that its true the time wont work on unix

(note: UNIX will actually run, however the date will be December 13, 1901 at 8:45:52 PM the second after the time rolls over. For example, if you have a unix system calculating interest on you bank account you will get ALOT of negative interest (like -x% for 237 years) :) )

16:08 [Fringan] but its really easy for a programmer to change that in the unix source code to a 64-bit integer and everything will work for a very long time

(note: 64-bit time_t could handle dates up to year 292 000 000 000 which would be about 5 times the expected life of the universe :) )

16:08 [Fringan] its a few days work perhaps
16:08 [Fringan] instead of building a time machine and send someone back in time to get an old computer
16:09 [Fringan] even if you didnt know how to change that time thing in the code, you could still set the clock back a few years and it would work while you figure out how to make unix work with the right date set :)
16:09 [KiraSjon] see that just makes more sense than sending someone back in time
16:09 [KiraSjon] seems tons more efficient and cost effective
16:09 [Fringan] and that is why the 5100 JT thing is a load of crap :D
16:10 [Fringan] also, im not sure what they would use that 5100 for.. its not like you can run and complicated programs on it.. its about as powerful as a normal scientific calculator is :) (note: perhaps not even that powerful)

16:11 [KiraSjon] well - if everything were wiped out, maybe they
16:11 [KiraSjon] d be starting from the beginning?
16:12 [Fringan] but he (JT) says they have satelites and internet up and running
16:12 [Fringan] they couldn't surf on a 5100, nor control satelites
16:12 [Fringan] JT also said they have creditcards
16:12 [KiraSjon] very true
16:12 [Fringan] i think the whole 5100 thing is a flaw in his story
16:12 [KiraSjon] which they definately wouldn't have unless they still had their technology
16:13 [Fringan] however, alot of things he is warning about is important for people to believe and care about
 

The_Ruffneck

Member
Messages
278
Concerning JT 5100

they probably lost the data on how to re-program it during the wars or whatever , what i'm more interested in is Nemo's text "i will be alive in 2036" , how does he know that? is he admitting he can see the future ?
 

Fringan

Junior Member
Messages
48
Concerning JT 5100

Originally posted by The_Ruffneck@Oct 19 2004, 04:07 PM
they probably lost the data on how to re-program it during the wars or whatever

That would take that there was no one able to program computers left at all since its a fairly easy thing to do. You don't have to be exceptionally good at programming to fix this problem.

If I remember things right, Titors time machine had a couple of computers in them calculating time from some clocks or whatever.. Whoever could program those computers could fix the unix bug without even breaking a sweat.

It just doesn't add up.
 

Mudpuppy

Member
Messages
344
Concerning JT 5100

Originally posted by Fringan+Oct 19 2004, 11:19 AM--><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-The_Ruffneck@Oct 19 2004, 04:07 PM
they probably lost the data on how to re-program it during the wars or whatever

That would take that there was no one able to program computers left at all since its a fairly easy thing to do. You don't have to be exceptionally good at programming to fix this problem.

If I remember things right, Titors time machine had a couple of computers in them calculating time from some clocks or whatever.. Whoever could program those computers could fix the unix bug without even breaking a sweat.

It just doesn't add up.
[/b][/quote]

Well, maybe the 5100 story was just a cover he used figuring that most people wouldn't bother checking into it in depth until after he had left. Maybe he came back to do something else for the government that he couldn't divulge and his being on the internet was a sort of side venture until he left. Which begs the question, what else might he have come back to do for the government or any other agency?

or

Perhaps the 5100 is a cover story he used and is currently doing things for the government which doesn't really have anything to do with time travel. Could be a number of possibilities but it doesn't appear that the real reason was the 5100.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Concerning JT 5100

My impression of what he was saying was that he needed the actual hardware, that there were shortages of needed items no longer manufactured. Of course, it raises the old question about how such a backward technology (requiring crude generators, bike tires, and rustic values) still hosts a GE corporation able to make a time machine-- let alone why such a militaryindustrialcomplex company would find itself on the side of the yeoman farmer rebels.
 

Qflux

New Member
Messages
12
Concerning JT 5100

Its been thought that John confused his computers. The 5100 came out in 1975 and the 5110 came out in 1978. I recently saw that John never used the term 5110 in his posts. The 5110 only came up in the copied chat conversations that appeared after John left. The wrong picture of the 5110 then appeared on (another time travel forum that will not be said).

My point is - is it not possible that the chats with the wrong computer were faked to make JT look stupid? Is it also possible that someone is going through a great deal of trouble to make everyone forget about John Titor?
 

Mudpuppy

Member
Messages
344
Concerning JT 5100

Originally posted by Qflux@Oct 20 2004, 10:29 AM
Its been thought that John confused his computers. The 5100 came out in 1975 and the 5110 came out in 1978. I recently saw that John never used the term 5110 in his posts. The 5110 only came up in the copied chat conversations that appeared after John left. The wrong picture of the 5110 then appeared on (another time travel forum that will not be said).

My point is - is it not possible that the chats with the wrong computer were faked to make JT look stupid? Is it also possible that someone is going through a great deal of trouble to make everyone forget about John Titor?

What you say is a really good possibility. Perhaps the govt (using their own people on the different JT sites) wants to discredit him so that people won't ban together and become vigilant. Divide and conquer is the game most govts (and some relgions) play in order to control the masses...not unite and overcome. Aside from the technical aspect of JT's posts and chats, his posts really conveyed a sense of sincerity that he wanted to, in some small part, help those that were smart enough to help themselves and leave those that would be forever cynical to their own ends. If he did, in fact, come back and assist with the Y2K problem (if it would have really been a problem, which many doubt), thereby allowing a different event, maybe even more herendous to occur, then I can see why he wanted to step back and say he should just let things happen as they are going to because in the end when the worst has passed, a better world will evolve. I think the small way for him to help could have been to post about some of the future events as a wake-up call and the importance of community and becoming aware of your rights, thereby saving more than might have normally been saved without really making a large impact on the worldline. And if that were true, would the govt want hundreds of small groups converging together in preparation? It would be a simple matter for them to have their people go in and discredit his posts or at least instill doubt.
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Concerning JT 5100

If I am not mistaken, the book uses only the term of 5100 for that computer.
Fringan has stated that programing of other machines would be quite easy for one that knew their business. HuntTech has stated that my earlier theory about the 5100 NOT surviving a strong electromagnetic field is very possibly correct, specifically circuits on the motherboard, such as it was back then.
The desire for this 5100 was for it's computing use because unix is supposedly going to crash after a certain point in time, My understanding is there was no desire for any of its hardware or pcs.

The story alludes to the fact that titor was depressed once he found out that y2k didn't hit this "time line". Just another part of the tapestry that made up this story lending depth and more credence.

So, the folks that wrote this story knew enough to make somewhat plausible scenarios, but did not have in-depth studies to their ends.

What is very plain IMHO, is that a great amount of hard work was put into this story by several individuals. These individuals, wether they worked for the govt. or not, are very dissatisfied with the U.S. current situation both worldwide AND here in the States. Quite the wake up call, isn't it?

The fact remains that there IS much we need to wake up to and realize that WE THE PEOPLE need to stand tall, be counted and very obvious about the way things are heading. Perhaps NOW would be a good time to find out if this is a Democracy where the people truly have a voice or just a Autocracy with a figurehead at the forefront run by the wishes of large corporations.
 

Fringan

Junior Member
Messages
48
Concerning JT 5100

Originally posted by Qflux@Oct 20 2004, 03:29 PM
Its been thought that John confused his computers.? The 5100 came out in 1975 and the 5110 came out in 1978.? I recently saw that John never used the term 5110 in his posts.? The 5110 only came up in the copied chat conversations that appeared after John left.? The wrong picture of the 5110 then appeared on (another time travel forum that will not be said).

My point is - is it not possible that the chats with the wrong computer were faked to make JT look stupid?? Is it also possible that someone is going through a great deal of trouble to make everyone forget about John Titor?


Actually, this is a little something from what i believe is his first post:

"Greetings. I am a time traveler from the year 2036. I am on my way home after getting an IBM 5100 computer system from the year 1975."


Some reading @ IBM:
In the beginning, there was the IBM Personal Computer

"Unlike the 5100 ? which met the needs of professional and scientific problem-solvers ? the 5110 was offered as a full-function computer to virtually all business and industry."

Basicly that means the 5100 was a big calculator, while the 5110 was a real computer on which you could actually run systems and such.
 

Timmy G

Member
Messages
167
Concerning JT 5100

GREETINGS ALL! Thanks for having me >:D<

I learned about John Titor and the legacy that surrounds him just about two months ago. Through my journey I ran across the timetravelforum, and I have to say that I enjoy this web site immensely. I also have to say that I really enjoy reading posts & replies, esp from peeps like Paul, Starlord and Cary. Keep up the good banter guys - intelligence is power. I have had a couple things on my mind about JT and the discussion around him, and have figured that I would make this site my JT home (for now, until it dies or one better comes along ;) ). Here, at my first post - I will convey one of the things on my mind. The other to come soon.

This topic speaks of the IBM 5100, and JT's need for it. Whether or not his need was authentic, or if the machine itself would actually serve any purpose. It is reported that JT was after the 5100 because of a past secret function that nobody knew about until the future. "According to Bob Dubke, the second engineer on IBM's 5100 team in Rochester, that secret function was his contribution to the design of the computer. The function, which IBM suppressed because of worries about how their competition might use it, was an interface between the assembly code surrounding the computer's ROM exterior, and the 360 emulator hidden beneath it. The 5100's emulator gave programmers access to the functions of the monstrous, and much less portable machines, that IBM had produced during the 1960s. An imprint of a hook on the outside of the 5100 symbolized the ability of Dubke's interface to drop into what Titor called "legacy code," and scoop out any necessary operating instructions. "

Regarding the 5100 being a large calculator: "Period documentation Dubke provided calls the computer a "dramatic step forward," and reveals that the 5100 team were justifiably excited about their project's release. According to Dubke, they'd been set free from bureaucratic controls, and so had worked smoothly and efficiently on the 5100's design. The end result was a computer that, though antiquated in comparison to current technology, was an engineering marvel. Bulky but functional. "

My contribution to this thread --> The complete story can be found here:Rochester Magazine Online

About JT overall: First, let me start by asking a question... Do you remember 'debate' class in school? Do you remember (perhaps in a different class) having to write two 'arguments' based on the same facts. One view had to be PRO - and one had to be CON. It was amazing how people could twist a few simple statements into something believable for either side.

There are two sides to every coin (front and back) and not unlike the coin, the JT saga has two sides; the believers and the nonbelievers. But remember, when it comes to every story - there are three sides. The believers, the nonbelievers, and the truth.

Until next time :)
 

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