Debate Did John Titor prevent the Y2K event?

Samstwitch

Senior Member
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5,111
JOHN TITOR AND Y2K
I already posted several excerpts from John's postings in my Comment #3 above. (I've relisted them in Post #12 below.) Now I'm rereading John's posts from the book his Mother published: John Titor: A Time Traveler's Tale
If I find additional quotes from John's references to Y2K in the book, I will post them on this thread as I rediscover them and as they are related to the topic of this thread.
Let me begin BELOW with his Mother's opening letter to readers in the book. Granted, this is from John's Mother, not him, but IMO it is evidence none the less. As for referencing John's posts from the book, it's much easier and faster than doing it from the Internet Posts, which I have in my Research Journals.
A Letter from John's Mother:

As I write, I can see the movers taking our furniture off the truck. It's parked half way in the driveway in front of our new home. The larger furniture is coming off now. There's the couch, our living room chairs and a box of dishes. It reminds me of the last time we moved in 1999 to escape the coming of Y2K. But that was in Florida, a whole world away.

Back then, life seemed more predictable. My husband had a new job, we had a small home on a lake and our son was born. The first time I heard about Y2K I was watching a news program on a quiet Sunday night. I paid little attention to the year 2000 computer problem until April 27, 1998, the day we met John Titor. He called first, came to our house and just knocked on the front door. There in the doorway stood a man who claimed to be from the future. Not just any man, he claimed to be my son, age thirty-eight: a time traveler from the year 2036.

From that day until March 2001, John Titor stayed with us in our home. He told us he had made a promise to my husband's father in 1975 that involved preparing us for Y2K. On January 1, 2000, the world did not end as John said it would. Strangely, this did not seem to surprise him and instead seemed to be a burden as a deep sense of sadness overtook him.

For reasons that are still not clear to me, John decided to go on the Internet and write about who he was and why he was here. During the entire time he was online, I had the feeling he was attempting to start or finish something beyond just being online. If John was trying to get some other message out, I hope this book will help further those ends. For me, my husband and our young son, it is over.

John Titor's Mother
2003

Here is an excerpt BELOW from what is purported to be John's Fax No. 1 that was sent to Art Bell in 1998. You may view the entire content of the Faxes at this link: John Titor's faxes to Art Bell transcript in the 90s. What do you think as a 2012 viewer? | Time Travel Institute
JOHN TITOR: Now for the future you might want to know about. Y2K is a disaster. Many people die on the highways when they freeze to death trying to get to warmer weather. The government tries to keep power by instituting marshall law but all of it collapses when their efforts to bring the power back up fail. A few years later communial government system is developed after the constitution takes a few twists. China retakes Tiawan. Isreal wins the largest battle for their life and Russia is covered in Nuclear snow from their collapsed reactors.

The Youtube video BELOW was posted by Larry Haber, the attorney for John's Mother (who also handled the publishing of the book), at John's request. For that reason, I also consider the video as evidence. In the video (beginning at approximately 2:10 minutes), John references the 2 Faxes sent to Art Bell in 1998. IMO, it validates that John(s) sent Art Bell the Faxes, and that in turn validates that John made the statement about an upcoming Y2K disaster.
MY OWN INVOLVEMENT WITH Y2K
MY THEORY ABOUT JOHN CHANGING OUR HISTORY...AND Y2K
In 1998-2000 I was the Co-Founder of the Y2K Task Force in Humboldt County, CA and I received a recognition award Certificate from the President's Y2K Conversion Council for my efforts. (Someday I might scan the Certificate and post it here.) It was a high honor given to three of us in my county. So I'm somewhat knowledgeable on the Y2K problem that John referred to.
I am also a researcher. Over the years, I have researched the subject of John Titor extensively...more than anyone that I, personally, have ever met.
It is my opinion that John's trip to 1975 changed the outcome of Y2K on our Timeline. I believe that change started a chain reaction and that also deterred the course of a Civil War on our Timeline.
That is why I believe John was so interested in the 2000 Elections. (John's Mother wrote about this in the book.)
As a researcher, I have seen overwhelming evidence that both 2000 and 2004 Elections were stolen by G.W. Bush. However, most Americans on our Timeline were 'apathetic' and did nothing when those Elections were stolen. There was no civil uprising over G.W. Bush stealing two Presidential Elections.
I believe there was a much different outcome on John's Timeline when that happened. My theory is that after the Y2K disaster resulted in thousands of deaths on John's World Line, that disastrous event changed the character of Americans in his world. Americans no longer trusted the U.S. Government. They, in fact, mistrusted the U.S. Government and blamed the Government for not warning them about Y2K.
I theorize that the stolen Presidential Elections on John's World Line were most likely the basis and beginnings that sparked a 2nd Civil War in America. Whereas, on our World Line, people did nothing when the 2000 & 2004 Elections were stolen, so a Civil War did not take root here on our World Line.
That is part of how I believe John Titor's presence here changed our World Line. I believe his interaction with his Grandfather, when he informed him about an upcoming Y2K disaster and the cause, was the beginning of the changes. I think his Grandfather shared that information with other IBM Engineers and Programmers, and that information was passed on through the years until it reached our ears.
It began around 1992, some elderly Engineers appeared on 20/20 and other News Programs. (I personally saw this episode.) Engineers began informing the public about the potential upcoming Y2K disaster. A few years before the Year 2000, it became a great concern to some. The closer we got to Y2K, others picked up the cause and it escalated around 1998 until Task Forces and groups were formed like ours in Humboldt County and addressed the computer problems.
I believe that's how John changed the outcome of Y2K on our World Line.
There were some Y2K problems after the turn of the millennium, but they weren't noticed much. PG&E in Northern California didn't have their Y2K conversions completed, and for 6-9 months many people weren't billed, so suddenly they got a bill for hundreds of dollars (depending on how much gas and electricity they used during winter). PG&E didn't shut off their utilities for late bills, because everyone got these HUGE bills suddenly after months of getting none. It happened to my sons, who rented a house there.
JOHN'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE 2000 THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION
November 11, 2000
Q: Are you here to observe the Presidential elections?
JOHN TITOR: I would use the word "elections" a bit cautiously. Perhaps it's easier now to see a civil war in your future?
NOTE FROM JOHN'S MOTHER: John was very upset during the elections and spent more time away from the house than at any other. He never gave any details about his feelings or actions during this period but I definitely had the impression he was trying to carry out some sort of plan having to do with the election. When it was over, he seemed more at ease.
IN ANOTHER POST...
Q: Why are you here?
JOHN TITOR: I am here for personal reasons. For a few months now, I have been trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the United States in 2005. Does that seem more likely now? Actually it's quite amazing to see what's happening. I have been trying to get people to pay attention for the last few months but to see it unfold is very interesting. Before I leave, I'll try and post my report.
I am curious. Will anyone be upset if Florida's votes are not counted in the Electoral College because of the current "confusion"?
MY THEORY: I think this is when John realized his presence here that affected the outcome of Y2K becoming a non-event on our World Line, also led to the chain reaction of people becoming apathetic...and in turn prevented the spark that would have started a Civil War with the fraudulent 2000 Presidential Elections.
If I'm correct...then when John's mother said, "When it was over, he seemed more at ease", I think that was the moment when John just gave in to what he realized had happened.
PERHAPS SOMEDAY John Titor will return and tell us if I am right or wrong!
 

Samstwitch

Senior Member
Messages
5,111
CONTINUED FROM MY PREVIOUS POST...REPOSTED FOR REFERENCE

Listed BELOW are what I believe to be Cryptic Clues that elude to the idea that John Titor changed events on our World Line; he changed our histories, he changed the outcome of Y2K. IMO, John did not technically 'fix' Y2K bug, but his presence and interaction with his Grandfather eventually led to the changed outcome of Y2K...through a chain reaction of events.

BELOW: Referencing John's Internet Posts in the book published by his mother: John Titor: A Time Traveler's Tale

1) PAGE 91

Q: Why do you keep telling us about the war? How do you know that will even happen in our world line? Something may have already changed and it won't happen.

JOHN TITOR: Yes, you are correct! However, I am not confident things are different enough for you to avoid the conflict. You may also consider the possibility that a world with no war is far less desirable in the long run...

2) PAGE 83

JOHN TITOR: [Excerpt] Would I be any more believable if I told you I had just stopped a horrible event and you won't hear about it because it didn't happen?

3) PAGES 140-141

(John is answering questions from posters and talks a lot about scenarios where the past could be changed. He uses Pearl Harbor as an example. Too much here to type out in this Comment, but here's an excerpt.)

JOHN TITOR: [Excerpt] I don't want the responsibility of being expected to know who lives and who dies. I know it would change me for the worse. Besides, how can you be sure my "inaction" now isn't a result of something I've already screwed up and I'm trying to fix it?

I think John is referring to Y2K and the aftermath that follow on his World Line, i.e., the Presidential elections (I think there may have been an uprising over the fraudulent elections when Bush took the White House) and/or whatever else, which eventually led to a Civil War on his World Line. But no Y2K or uprising happened on our World Line...and I believe it all changed, because of John's presence and interactions here. I think the whole changing-of-events scared the crap out of him...and I think that was part of the reason (a secondary reason) of why he posted information online and interacted with people.

4) PAGE 77

JOHN TITOR: Yes, the Pearl Harbor example relates to Y2K. Have you considered that I might already have accidentally screwed up your world line?

5) PAGE 56

Q: How do you know our world line and yours follow the same path?

JOHN TITOR: This world line and my own are almost exactly alike.

NOTE FROM JOHN'S MOTHER: John is not being entirely truthful here. As more time went by after Y2K did not happen and the Presidential election, John believed our world line would be very different from his. This did not give him any comfort. He appeared to be more afraid of our future than what would happen as the result of another world war.

My Note: John was only being half truthful. His World Line and ours were "almost exactly alike" before he got here. But his presence here caused serious changes.

AS STATED PREVIOUSLY, MY POSTINGS ARE "MY OPINION".
 

Samstwitch

Senior Member
Messages
5,111
CONTINUED: Cryptic Clues that elude to the idea that John Titor changed events on our World Line; he changed our histories, he changed the outcome of Y2K.

BELOW: Referencing John's Internet Posts in the book published by his mother: John Titor: A Time Traveler's Tale

6) PAGE 20

JOHN TITOR: Consider this: You are a time traveler who wishes to go back in time to 1941 because your grandparents live close to Pearl Harbor in Hawaii. You realize you can't stop the war but you may be able to help them prepare for it. Strangely, December 7th comes and goes with no sneak attack. As the war in Europe rages on, Japan fails to join the Axis power, there is no war in the Pacific and the United States remains neutral. Then, you watch as Germany begins to develop the atomic bomb...all by themselves.

For a change, I have a question for all of you. I want you to think very hard. What major disaster was expected and prepared for in the last year and a half that never happened?

NOTE FROM JOHN'S MOTHER: John was talking about Y2K. When it didn't happen John was very surprised for about three days. After that, he seemed to feel very guilty and blamed himself because of an event in 1975. In my opinion, I'm glad Y2K didn't happen but John was adamant the future was bleaker for us now.

MORE...JOHN'S COMMENT ON THE 2004 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS

7) PAGE 37

JOHN TITOR: Real disruptions in world events being with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election...

MY NOTES: Here John indicates that there was "civil unrest" around the 2004 presidential election on his World Line, which is consistent with my theory referred to in Post #11...Underline emphasis mine.

MORE ABOUT Y2K...

8) PAGE 38

Q: Are you going to take your family with you to protect them from coming events?

JOHN TITOR: No, I am not taking them with me but I am trying to prepare them for the future as I promised to my grandfather in 1975.

NOTE FROM JOHN'S MOTHER: John is talking about preparing us for Y2K but the statement confuses me since he posted this after the fact. I believe he came to 1998 to prepare us for a disaster that never arrived.


ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF JOHN CHANGING THE FUTURE, ACCORDING TO HIS MOTHER

9) Oops, I forgot to write down the Page Number.

JOHN TITOR: My father made a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems and sailing "commodities" up and down the coast of Florida. I spent most of my time helping him.

NOTE FROM JOHN'S MOTHER: Before John arrived, my husband was in the market for a used sailboat we could trailer around between the coasts in Florida. After John arrived, he decided against it. I've often wondered if that was the same sailboat John remembers as a child. If it was, then in a very small way the future has already changed for us.

JOHN'S LAST ENTRY (Also partly Y2K related)

(Underline: Emphasis mine)

10) PAGE 163-164

JOHN TITOR: No, I don't have a secret agenda but I have been paying a great deal of attention to your world line. My interaction with you was not a directmission parameter, but it was a secondary mission protocol based on standing orders given to all temporal drivers.

That secondary objective is basically to gather as much information about a world line based on a set of observable variables when we first arrive. Your world line met those conditions. What amazes me is why no one here wonders why Y2K didn't hit them at all?

Bring a gas can with you when the car dies on the side of the road.

Farewell.
John
 
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196
@Sam,
Thank you for presenting your theories on the topic of John Titor's actions in regards to Y2K and it's possible cascading effects regarding the Second American Civil War.
They are quite possibly very insightful and, all things being equal, appear to hang together nicely.

Now....why were those darn faxes sent?
As Ever
TR
 
Messages
196
Now....why were those darn faxes sent?
Watch the "Letter 177 tempus edax rerum" video that I posted in Comment #11. John gives an explanation for sending the Faxes in that video.


Outstanding work, Sam.

Now, let's ask some (very preliminary) questions in an attempt to identify what we are assuming:

1) Has Haber ever admitted to posting this video? Has anyone asked him this specifically?
2) Other than the obvious statement at the beginning of the video claiming as such, is there any independent information that will support the claim that this was actually written by Titor himself (later posted by Haber, supposedly)?
3) When was the letter actually written? 1998? 2003? 2009? 2012? 2036?
4) What are the odds that two Johns might "land" on the same world line as stated in the video? According to John's statements in 2000, a "ZD" is extremely (to the point of impossibility in an infinite multiverse, I assume) unlikely. Did John 1 and John 2 just win the multiverse lotto? Is there possibly a piece of the puzzle here that we are missing?
5) According to the video, the faxes were meant as a means to communicate divergence measurements. Hmmm....Have you followed up on that lead?
6) Is it now possible to look at the faxes, not as a means to "set the record straight about time travel" as the author claimed in 1998, but rather to communicate?
7) This is important, How tightly are you now holding onto your belief and theory that the faxes were telling the truth about, among other things, Y2K if their actual purpose (according to the video) was to communicate divergence measurements.

Please remember: I am not doubting nor debating for one second that Titor was a time traveler. He was. I am merely now trying to demonstrate that the time travel question is orders of magnitude larger than you ever thought.

As Ever
TR
 

Samstwitch

Senior Member
Messages
5,111
TR, those questions sounded like they were for me. Forgive me if I misunderstood.

I'm posting this information for Members, because we had to split the thread when it went off-topic.
 
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196
Well, I tried.

Good bye and good luck.

For those interested in searching for the actual truth, I can be reached at my signature below.

Disappointed
Temporal Recon
 

Sliders

Member
Messages
158
No Y2k did hit us, at the very least he could of made us aware of it early on but fact remains he did not prevent it.
 

TimeTravel_00

Active Member
Messages
591
I do not believe that Sam'a comments or Darby's misinfo can doom anyone to death. Please allow me to elaborate. Charlotte county Florida can only sustain a set amount of people based on local agriculture and fishing. This county averaged a foreclosure rate of 1 in 300 homes last month. The daily county auction is slammed full of properties while lee county auction is empty. Charlotte county has 175,000 residence, Lee county has 800,000+. Charlotte is fully of wealthy retires, lee county has many young families in poverty. Charlotte county will sustain "John"s family and my family when this society breaks down, Lee county will devour itself into a warzone. Sending more young people here for us to compete with would only be detrimental to our future. Please remember that there is only 1 rule on planet Earth: survival of the fittest.
 

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