Frauds and lies

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Unintentional

Active Member
Messages
577
Frauds and lies

The recent "Bush" memo showing Bush ignored a direct order with proportional typing (in 1972) in a style no one in the military would ever write and in a way no one who knew the alleged author would write is just a recent example of why I am hard to be persuaded by anti-war arguments.

www.rotten.com is another. Many, if not most, of those WMD quotes that have been bandied about, when sought out, were fabricated.

fahrenheit 9-11 is another. If you believe f9-11, then you believe a plan was made to invade Afganistan and Iraq for oil. So the plan had to include Bush winning in 2001. Say that together: "When Clinton was president a plan was put into place for W to be the next president so the WTC could be attacked and then we could invade Afganistan and Iraq for oil." Do you realize how nutty that sounds?

There have been outright lies since day one and it just makes me wonder, if your argument is correct why do you need to embellish it with lies? There have been numerous lies on the left but none on the right. The left says he lied about WMDs. Did he? I have yet to see where. I have heard the left's mantra over and over again, but no evidence that Bush said Sadam had WMDs and we would find them when we went in. I have heard him say, Sadams wants them, has used them, and it would be very bad if we waited until he had them, but only the left agreed with the invasion basing their decision on WMDs. Now that there are no WMDs to be find, they say they were lied to. It was the left that fabricated this reason to justify their own support. It was also known that if we invaded Iraq, WMDs would be very hard to find if they could be found at all. Was the left feigning support in anticipation of their being no WMDs to be found so they could then use it as a political weapon against Bush? Of all conspiracy theories, THAT makes as much sense if not more of all the wacko-Michael Moore-type conspiracies I have heard from the left.

Another recent one is supposedly the people at a Bush rally booed when Bush offered prayers for Clinton's surgury. Another lie.

These lies are also being reported by major media outlets and not just internet whack jobs.

If you want Bush out, fine, tell me why without lieing. If you are against war, fine, tell me why without lieing. If you think the war against Iraq was wrong, fine, tell me why without lieing. Everytime the left lies and then is found out, it makes their next argument all the more weaker and immediately suspect. If your argument is valid, you may win the argument. If you lie, you take down other valid arguments by association.
 

Ralan

Member
Messages
361
Frauds and lies

I want Bush out because he's a normal person, and normal people shouldn't be allowed such control over the world's greatest superpower and subsequently the world itself. Bush has a poor education record and an unspoken debt to the corporate criminals who put him where he is. He is only the president because of his family connections and fortune, not in any way through personal merit. I'm sure he is a nice person and he has strong family values, but I find it very worrying that a person probably below the average standard in intelligence is leading the United States of America.

Having said that, much of the same applies to John Kerry. He does seem more intelligent than Bush, but that intelligence is preying on his morals and, while making quick decisions to keep up with the blockheads around him, he thinks more deeply into things than them and changes his mind. Anyway, he wouldn't make a good president either.
 

StarLord

Senior Member
Messages
3,187
Frauds and lies

Smuda,

Wouldnt this just boil down to who's "source" of information is the most reliable?
How would you gauge the verasity of your source over anothers?
No joke or sarcasm here, a very honest question for you.
 

Unintentional

Active Member
Messages
577
Frauds and lies

Some of these frauds can be attributed to reliability sources, some can be proven false with a quick check. It is these second ones that I object to. Like the audience booing about Clintons health problems at a Bush rally. It was reported as news before being checked out. AFter it was checked out, it was determined that there was in fact no booing. Someone lied about what really happened and then it was repeated before even being checked out. This is happening more and more often.

As far as Bush's intelligence goes, the media here is mostly controlled by elitist liberals. They consider themselves more intelligent than others and their number one argument against those who don't agree with is "you're stupid". They especially don't agree with George Bush so he is especially stupid. The fact is he was admitted to Yale with higher Sats than Bill Bradley. Bush = 566 verbal, Bradley = 485 verbal, Gore = 625 verbal. At the time W got admitted to Yale, his dad was a congressman, running a failed run for the senate. There are over 600 congressmen and Senators. Do they all get in Yale? True, Bush was a C average student at Yale. Now we're talking YALE here, back before the days of grade inflation. Do you realize how friggin tough it is to be a C student at YALE? Do a search of Bill Bradley stories and how "cerebral" the media sees him. To the mainstream media, if you are liberal, you are smart, if you are a conservative you are dumb. Look at Bob Packwood and Cristine Whitman. When they agreed with liberals, they were "smart" when they disagreed, they were "dumb".

I see Bush as proudly anti-intellectual. He has got the brains, but it is in his personality to be a good old party boy.
 

Unintentional

Active Member
Messages
577
Frauds and lies

As far the fake memo goes take a look at these websites:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?en...cuments-_Forged

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

The most damming is that typewriters even with proportional fonts, did not have apostrophes, the coma did double duty. MS word however does.

The other thing is if you type the document with the same font in MS word, the kerning is EXACT. Not close, but exact! identical! every single pixel lines up with every single pixel on the fake document. Proportional fonts on typewriters broke each word down into subspaces. A small i would take one space, but a w would take three. This was very rigid. MS word has no such limitation. For these two documents once supposedly typed on a proportional spaced typewriter and the other on MS word to line up identically is impossible!

Here are the two documents superimposed on each other:

aug181973memo-word2.gif


There are many more inconsistencies proving the memo a fraud, but the point is, this is not a matter of opinion or different sources. This was deliberately fabricated to make Bush look bad.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Frauds and lies

See how the whole issue becomes passe within a week? These people are staking the most important election in modern history on toasted marshmallows.

Truth and lies? The only thing that makes Bush a bigger liar at the moment than Kerry is that Kerry hasn't had a chance to be the president yet. And, if he gets close, Bush will stop at nothing to rig or throw the election.

Here's a question for everybody: Who benefits if we suffer a major terrorist attack before the election-- Bush, Kerry, or Bin Laden?

Don't answer right away. Give it some thought.
 

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,438
Frauds and lies

Originally posted by Paul J. Lyon@Sep 27 2004, 02:00 PM

See how the whole issue becomes passe within a week? These people are staking the most important election in modern history on toasted marshmallows.

Truth and lies? The only thing that makes Bush a bigger liar at the moment than Kerry is that Kerry hasn't had a chance to be the president yet. And, if he gets close, Bush will stop at nothing to rig or throw the election.

Here's a question for everybody: Who benefits if we suffer a major terrorist attack before the election-- Bush, Kerry, or Bin Laden?

Don't answer right away. Give it some thought.

The man keeps slippin' us pearls. Lying has become an art form in the White House over the decades. Maybe that's what the parties should do as an early qualifier. How well does this candidate lie and look like he/she is telling the truth. The complacency is sickening Paul. The only people getting worked up over the lies being told by both parties are the true believers from the opposing side when a lie gets exposed.

As for the next terror attack, pre-election = Bush gains most. If Kerry gets elected (post election attack) then he gains because of the power accumulated in the Executive branch. OBL is either dead or shuffled to the background. He will benefit least, if at all. If the terrorists are truly independent, then a Bush victory is most desirable. He's the best recruiting poster they've ever had. I've been thinking about this one for a while.

Cary
 

Cornelia

Member
Messages
234
Frauds and lies

Paul,
Here's a question for everybody: Who benefits if we suffer a major terrorist attack before the election-- Bush, Kerry, or Bin Laden?

Before someone mentions Spain elections and 3/11, is my duty (as the official EU representative here ;)) to remind you that the Spanish didn't vote Aznar out of office because of the attack, but because he repeatedly LIED to them trying to blame the ETA (spanish terrorists) instead of Al Qaida.

smuda,
Say that together: \"When Clinton was president a plan was put into place for W to be the next president so the WTC could be attacked and then we could invade Afganistan and Iraq for oil.\" Do you realize how nutty that sounds?

Say that together: "When Bush was President, an oil billionaire hiding in a cave planned the worst terror attack of the whole history because he and his friends were jealous of american freedom."
How does this sound?
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
Frauds and lies

Or: "While the president after Bush, elected in 2004, was preoccupied with securing his own power base, the U.S. social structure collapsed under the weight of federal oppression, and the resulting civil war invited old enemies to launch a nuclear attack on a much reduced empire."
 

Cornelia

Member
Messages
234
Frauds and lies

(...and sadly, Cornelia saw one of the most respected members and also one of her best friends on the board slowly sliding to the Darby side...)
:lol:
 

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