Islam

[PyRo99]

Islam

Expose your feelings on Islam, whether you hate every one of them, hate the jihadists, or if you love em all. However, do not attack one another for differentiating in beliefs.

I have two sides to my beliefs. Without a doubt, I dislike the terrorists/jihadists. They are scum too me, but they are people.

Other muslims are fine in my book, once they start to support the terrorists for blowing up schools, taking down airplanes, etc etc. Thats when I have a problem.

It's morally wrong to kill children, then again, it is also morally wrong for us to kill children, we just don't hear about it.

╚Pyro╚

 

[pauli]

Islam

Wow Pyro! You're brave. This is a rather difficult discussion. I have spent the past two years studying up on Islam and I have to say that I have such mixed feelings as a result. On the one hand, I don't hate the Muslims - I personally think they are - for the most part - good people. On the other, I hate the religion; I intensely dislike the philosophy behind many of their beliefs. It saddened me to find, after doing some reading, that the more religious the Muslim, the more disgusting they can act. I have never studied any religious philosophy that, I felt, was so disgusting in content - from the way they treat non-muslims to how they treat women. I can elaborate if necessary, but I will keep this posting to the bare minimum.

The following comment was made by Robert Spencer, the author of "Islam Unveiled," "between fear and political correctness there is not much being said today about Islam that is more than sugar-coated nonsense." This quote, I believe is very accurate. I read both that book and another one entitled, "Why I am Not a Muslim," by Ibn Warraq (<-a pseudonym) both were good readings to familiarize yourself with the history and basic content of beliefs in Muslim history and philosophy. Of course, some could argue they are a bit biased so if anyone chooses to read them - do so with an open mind.

 

[PyRo99]

Islam

Honsetly, I really don't have many problems with muslims.

Yes, their religion does seem to be a bit on the off ball way, but, thats because some take it so hardcorely that they think its justified to kill people for their god.

Some of them are not good people though, most are really pacifist. I know some girl, that detests everyone that catergorizes ALL muslims as "terrorists" because they're not.

Yes, we all know how they treat women. Women are not allowed to basically do anything, they are under the men's control. The men basically control them, which is sadistic.

And Yes, we also know how they treat non-muslims. Heck, they'll even threaten to behead their own, because they support Americans. Sad. Very sad.

But, Pauli, you should really express, because then this can become a huge topic. The stuff were touching on Islam, is only the basis of it all. There is much more, so I hold the door open for you too continue!

Pyro!

 

[pauli]

Islam

Pyro, you bring up three or four topics at a time. I will respond to the women thing, though I could go on about the others too.

Yes, we all know how they treat women. Women are not allowed to basically do anything, they are under the men's control. The men basically control them, which is sadistic.

If only the controlling attitude were the worst of it, but it is only the beginning. (sigh) What women face in Islam is much worse. Let's take, for example, the fact that women are not allowed to go anywhere without a man - in the more extreme parts of the culture. In some countries, such as Jordan, this is not so much of a problem, but in Iran and the Taliban ruled Afghanistan, this was (is in Iran, I believe) it is the case. But this is the tip.

Let's talk about polygamy. Many women live like cattle, four married to one man. These women might seem like they are happy about it, but many talk about it behind closed doors as a wound that never heals.

Let's talk about "honor killings," where if, G-d forbid, the woman is seen walking down the street with a boy she is considered to have dishonored the family and is in danger of having her father or brother slit her throat.

Let's talk about the practice of child brides - where the girl can be married off at the age of nine because Mohammed married his wife Aiesha when she was six and consumated it when she was nine.

Let's talk about "temporary marriage" where the man can marry a woman for from about an hour up to two or three days, give her "her dowry" and then divorce her when he has used her sexually (btw, what is the difference between that and prostitution? - scratches head) (Oh, and with all of this you would think the s*x industry would not be necessary in places like Saudi Arabia and other ME countries, but the opposite is true. That industry flourishes.)

Let's talk about the fact that women are only allowed to inherit half of what a male receives from her father's estate when he dies.

Let's talk about the fact that according to Sharia law, she is viewed as half a witness in a court of law - because she is an emotional being and therefore is likely to get the facts wrong. (btw, talk about being condescending about the abilities of a woman.)

Let's talk about the fact she cannot testify in the case of rape - AT ALL, even if she did witness the act.

Let's talk about rape and how if she IS raped, she must bring four male witnesses with her to the court that WITNESSED the PENETRATION. If she brings any less than that, their testimony is not believed. And, if she does accuse the man of rape, she had better have those witnesses because, if not, she will either be accused of fornication (for the non-married woman) or adultery (if she is married.) Then, if so, she will be stoned, while the man is let of with a flogging. (Guess how many men can rape at will and the women are unable to say anything about these crimes? I don't have statistics, but the amount of rapes that happen in these countries are very high.)

Let's talk about the fact that the husband, according to Sharia law, is allowed to beat his wife if she doesn't comply with his demands. Now true, there is a process that he must go through before he gets to the point of beating her - he is supposed to shame her first by moving her out of his bed and then removing her food and privileges, but if she still won't comply he is allowed to beat her with anything from a toothbrush up to a stick the thickness of a broom handle.

This is the plight of many women in Islamic countries. There are also other problems for women that spin out of this, but I think I have addressed the topic at hand pretty thoroughly.

 

[diabeditor]

Islam

I believe that if every Christian in the world was a terrible person, that in and of itself would not make Christinaity wrong. The Bible does not condone hatred and violence. The same can be said for most religions.

However, even if every Muslin in the world was a wonderful person (I know a few of them and they seem like great people), Islam would still be a bad religion. That's because of the Koran. Read it and tell me that Allah is not portrayed as a jealous, wicked, vengeful, hate-filled god.

 

[PyRo99]

Islam

In my eyes, Allah and God are the same person.

 

[DadOf5]

Islam

Originally posted by PyRo99@Sep 6 2004, 09:12 PM
In my eyes, Allah and God are the same person.

​

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that PyRo. I know that Allah, the Christian God, and Yaweh (sp?) are all supposed to be the same being; the same God.
The differences come from the three different "prophets" of God. Moses for the Jewish, Jesus Christ for the Christians, and Mohammed for the Muslims.

Each of these three prophets defined a way of life for their peoples that, I imagine, was consistent with their own views on life. So, in each religion we have Yaweh, God, and Allah showing different aspects of the same being, possibly due to the differing personalities that were preaching "His Word".

My point, is that you are right; Allah and God are the same being. It is the religion itself, or rather the views and words of the prophets, that are so drastically different.

 

[PyRo99]

Islam

That is my point Dad.

Although, you are wrong about Jesus Christ not being a prophet for the Muslims. He was. Muhammad was not the only prophet for the islams.

 

[Unintentional]

Islam

What I don't like in particular is an almost universal anti-zionism amongst all muslims. In the middle east nearly every muslim cleric has a copy of the protocols of the elders of zion (a complete fraud forgery that is taken as truth in the muslim community). It is not propaganda when I relate this one true story that happened/happens in a kindergarten run by the Islamic Society in Gaza.

At the graduation ceremony, they carry toy guns, hit the ground and demonstrate how they will kill the enemy. They then dip their hands in red paint and raise them to the audience in imitation of the Palenstinian youth who lynched tow Israeli soldiers in Ramallah. Then they go to the window, screaming in ecstasy to show the crowd their bloody hands.

These are kindergartners. The above incident happened in 2001, June 23.

Those kids will grow up to be impossible to reason with.

The only way we can end the occupation of Islam by the extremist that have hijacked it is to crack down on these schools and teachers.

The anti-zionism in the middle east is hippocritical as well. Israel may occupy a slight portion of palestine after they were attacked by palestine and kept the land they conquered as spoils of war and to promote their defense; but a vast more majority of palestine is occupied by lebedon, syria, jordan, and egypt. Has there ever been a suicide bombing against those countries?

Unfortunately, the press in America is too busy publishing how Christians are all right wing and express undue influence in society. It is very brave for anyone in America criticize Islam publicly, but accolades are expected in the main stream media if you criticize American heartland values as prudish and old fashioned.

 

[sosuemetoo]

Islam

Pyro, I'm happy that you have brought this subject up. We are not going to "bash" religions here, but debate.

I live in America where we have become so politically correct that it almost becomes offensive when the discussion of Islam comes up. I continue to hear that it is a peaceful religion, we have freedom of religion, to debate Islam is to "stir up the enemy." In other words, It's not "nice" to say that we do not agree with Islam.

I need to preface this post with the fact that I took only one semester of "Islamic Culture" and one semester of "Women in Islam" in the past 5 years. I dated a Muslim man for five years (15 some years ago). I am a Christian. If there is anyone that practices Islam that disagrees with what I say, please say it. It will not offend me. I am only saying what I learned and what I lived.

One of the fallacies I see with Islam is that it would make women equal. It did not. The opinion of four women = one male in the Koran. According to the Koran, women are to veil themselves, never look in a man's eyes (that are not their husbands), and always be in the company of a male that is their father, their older brother or their husband. In the African Islamic culture, there is female circumcision. This is not only wrong, but barbaric. This circumcision is done without medication and to the detriment of the 2-5 year old girl.

Polygamy is acceptable in the Islamic religion. Women accept this for several reasons. The older wife will be a "helpmate" to the younger wife. She will almost become a "mother" to the younger wife and help raise the children. Most of the time, women will accept it because it is the "norm" and they do not realize that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman.

The practice of "child brides" is well known in the Islamic community. The reasoning behind it is to make sure that the female in the marriage is a virgin and to expand the riches future husband. The female's future husband is given money or a "dowry" when the female is "promised" to him. The female never has the option of whether or not to marry the man.

Temporary marriages are quite common especially with older Islamic men who have lost a wife. Many times these men will be "promised" to several young girls. The promise is that when the older wife dies, he will marry the "next in line" that he is promised to, and she will help bring up the children at home that the older wife left behind. He will also collect the dowry.

It is true in Islam that a husband is allowed to beat his wife or a woman who is promised to him, but not to the point of killing her. However, the killing of the wife by a husband is usually justified.

Finally:
It upsets me that the "jihadists" wish me dead simply because I am an American and a Christian. My country has donated and funded Islamic nations for longer than I can remember. My Catholic and Methodist religion has done the same. Yet they want me, my husband and my children dead. I have to ask why? What did I ever do to them?

I'm to the point of saying "If you want us out of your country, then fine. America and all Christians will cease sending funds, education, food, and anything else you might need to survive, if that is what it will take for you to stop hating us. You asked us for help, and we gave it. All we ever wanted to do was to help you when you asked for it."

As for the UN and Nato: America should cease sending aid, food, funds and/or troops. No one really appreciates it anymore. We've liberated and saved several countries in the past 60 years, and no one seems to say "Thank You." They just want to bash us and hate us. In the future, we'll just take care of ourselves.