Debate John Titor's legitimacy?

Harte

Senior Member
Messages
4,562
Yes, I do. It has been shown that the laser photo has been faked. Thus reducing the credibility of John Titor's story to Zero.
Glad to see someone new has taken up the gauntlet dropped by Mr. Darby as he has skulked away. I am a little disappointed however, that he hasn't improved on his theory in 5 years, but I suppose we all do our best with the tools we have...

Shall we begin?

Perhaps you could point out, Mr. Einstein (and be sure to speak clearly for the cheap seats) where it has been "shown" that the laser pointer has been faked? And, as you are doing this, perhaps you could provide for us just who did this showing? What expert do you proffer? Yourself and your own theory? In some circles, we call that a self licking ice cream cone, in others...well...you get my point.

I put to those reading these forums here, now and in our future, that Mr. Einstein has but only offered up a theory and has, as evilly as Mr. Darby has done in the past, provided and presented his theory as fact.

Ladies and Gentlemen, will you accept this lie?

As Ever
Temporal Recon
Titor is a fraud, whose lies you have apparently accepted. One of which I note you diligently avoid:

John Titor's legitimacy?

Laser pointer or not, you can't get past that, can you.

Harte
 

Japrim

Active Member
Messages
611
Titor is a fraud, whose lies you have apparently accepted.

I cannot speak to Titor's motives, whether he is a "fraud" or not. But I will say that time travel is real and that whoever Titor is, is somehow involved.
 
Messages
196

Thank you, Japrim. You obviously understood the point I was about to make, though was obviously able to make it much quicker. Again, thank you.

Considering the extreme amount of time that has passed (16 years) between TimeTravel_0's statements and Mr. Einstein's explanation of how one cannot bend light without a point source of gravity ("the size of the sun" as Mr. Einstein's argument has stated over the years) one can only surmise that Mr. Einstein was either unaware of the examples Japrim provided (within mere hours) and made his statement out of ignorance, or Mr. Einstein was aware of this possibility and purposefully hid this alternative explanation, which was so graciously provided by Japrim.

To those reading this thread: Which do you believe? That Mr. Einstein is purposefully hiding the truth from you or that he is providing ill-informed, specious and intellectually dishonest arguments. In the end, it doesn't really matter except for the conclusion that Mr. Einstein has no expertise in this matter and has been leading those interested in the time travel question astray, just as Mr. Darby has, for years. This stops now.

So, if we take Mr. Japrim's above demonstration as prima facie (proof, not just evidence) that light can indeed be bent without a point source of gravity, and we use the famous laser pen photograph as evidence (not proof) that it has happened already without the use of water, but (ostensibly) a point source of gravity, then how, fellow seekers, does one connect the two?

As Socrates might form the lesson:
If the TT'er resides within the ergosphere of the Kerr Black Hole, with the inner event horizon extremely close to the 'microscopic singularities' and the outer event horizon extending far enough out from the centers to capture the car, what would happen to a beam of light emitted from within the ergosphere and hit the inside of the outer event horizon (the edge-on area of effect)? (hint: Think of, as Japrim noted, a waterfall)

As a primer question: What is happening at the edge of the area of effect where the 'bubble' intersects with regular 4d space? Hint: TT-0's unit insignia holds a clue.

It is time for the level of discussion on this forum to equal the interest of those truly seeking answers.

As Ever
Temporal Recon
 

Japrim

Active Member
Messages
611
Thank you, Japrim. You obviously understood the point I was about to make, though was obviously able to make it much quicker. Again, thank you.

I am simply trying to explain something starting with the simplest explanation. At first glance the photo looks like a laser beam being trajected into a stream of water being shot out of a car window.

A simple experiment to try to reproduce the photo would help.

Considering the extreme amount of time that has passed (16 years) between TimeTravel_0's statements...

I have reason to not trust TimeTravel_0 or their statements. Motive and legitimacy is suspect.


...and Mr. Einstein's explanation of how one cannot bend light without a point source of gravity ("the size of the sun" as Mr. Einstein's argument has stated over the years) one can only surmise that Mr. Einstein was either unaware of the examples Japrim provided (within mere hours) and made his statement out of ignorance, or Mr. Einstein was aware of this possibility and purposefully hid this alternative explanation, which was so graciously provided by Japrim.

I made the same point and posted similar photos months ago. I forget which thread. Again, I am simply trying to explain it.

To those reading this thread: Which do you believe? That Mr. Einstein is purposefully hiding the truth from you or that he is providing ill-informed, specious and intellectually dishonest arguments. In the end, it doesn't really matter except for the conclusion that Mr. Einstein has no expertise in this matter and has been leading those interested in the time travel question astray, just as Mr. Darby has, for years. This stops now.

I don't care.

So, if we take Mr. Japrim's above demonstration as prima facie (proof, not just evidence) that light can indeed be bent without a point source of gravity, and we use the famous laser pen photograph as evidence (not proof) that it has happened already without the use of water, but (ostensibly) a point source of gravity, then how, fellow seekers, does one connect the two?

Since proof exists for anyone who has a laser pointer and a few regular household items to traject it through a stream of water, until a competing explanation is presented, we must presume the way to make a laser beam bend is by using water, thus the photograph in question is likely a laser beam being trajected through a stream of water.

It is time for the level of discussion on this forum to equal the interest of those truly seeking answers.

The answers are usually in plain sight but almost never apparent.

If you are going to find proof of time travel in a photograph, it isn't going to be at face value. It will be in the form of information contained within from a future point. The photo is just the medium. The information itself it the proof. Whatever medium, it will always be in the form of information from a post fact point moving to a pre-fact point.

To use an example I used before; If you have a photograph that was taken in the 1950's, but has been obviously altered. Someone may look at it and dismiss it as illegitimate because it has been edited, tainted, and obvious hoax. But when you look deeper into it on a forensic level and apply science, you discover the digital method of editing did not exist until decades later.

Knowledge of the technology to edit it is the actual proof of time travel, ...right in plain sight but not apparent, privy to those who value truth enough to seek deeper.
 

PaulaJedi

Survivor
Zenith
Messages
8,712
To those reading this thread: Which do you believe? That Mr. Einstein is purposefully hiding the truth from you or that he is providing ill-informed, specious and intellectually dishonest arguments. In the end, it doesn't really matter except for the conclusion that Mr. Einstein has no expertise in this matter and has been leading those interested in the time travel question astray, just as Mr. Darby has, for years. This stops now.

There will always be for and against in arguments. If Einstein chooses the "against" stance, that is his choice and us allowing him to speak freely, which is his right, doesn't mean we agree. Also, there are no rules on this forum that state someone has to be an expert to post an opinion. He believes the photo is fake. Let him. He also doesn't believe black holes exist. Let him. It's a part of who he is as a person. We aren't here to change him or put him on trial, or anyone else for that matter.

Many debaters, for insecurity issues perhaps, turn the tables to become personal. The real issue here is the photo, not Einstein. Einstein isn't the debate. The photo is. He simply gave his opinion just as you did, and you haven't provided proof of YOUR expertise, yet. I'm only saying this because you expect only Stephen Hawking to post on the forums, yet you have no evidence of your own that YOU know what you're talking about. Name? Credentials? What type of work are you in? Maybe if we knew, we'd listen. All we have is your word, yet you expect evidence from everyone else. Where is yours? "Evidence" is your new catch phrase lately. So, show us EVIDENCE that what you say is right and everybody else is wrong. Please --- not just talk.

Show the diagrams. Show the papers. List the sources. Talk is cheap.

I know you're ignoring me, and I don't care, but you asked, "what do you believe?". This is for everyone else:

I'm still on the fence. And all of you have every RIGHT to have whatever opinion you want regardless of whether or not you have a PhD in Physics. It's called freedom. Enjoy it.

Never be afraid to share your thoughts. Most modern physics is wrong, anyway, and no, I don't have any "evidence", just a gut feeling.

Au Revoir!
 
Messages
196
Actually, Paula, I believe you missed my point altogether.

To elucidate:

My point was not to argue for or against the pen laser photograph, it was to highlight that Mr. Einstein is presenting his theoryas fact. He indeed did not present his statement as his opinion, as you wrongly interpret. You are coming to his defense by putting words into his mouth that he did not speak.

To whit:

It has been shown that the laser photo has been faked. Thus reducing the credibility of John Titor’s story to Zero.”

Mr. Einstein’s opinion is not at issue, Paula. It is his obvious deception that I take as a personal and intellectual affront.

Mr. Einstein specifically avoided stating that his ‘proof’ was his opinion. Nowhere in his claim did Mr. Einstein state that the pen laser photo was faked was his opinion (e.g. “it has been shown..”). His second statement only highlights his ignorance of the time travel question in general.

Mr. Darby engaged in the same deceptions over the last decade. I will no longer brook this obvious duplicity. Those who look for real truth and are willing to follow the bread crumbs and gems where they lead are who I am speaking to.

Mr. Einstein and everyone here are indeed entitled to their opinions (subject to moderators’ censoring, of course. We can’t allow truly remarkable information here).

I am merely pointing out that Mr. Einstein purposefully couched his opinion as fact when it was merely his own pet (and uninformed) theory. Deception, by any other name, is just as evil.

And so, now I ask: deception intended for what outcome? Salacious vanity, or perhaps something less obvious?

I also notice that my original challenge goes unanswered. I provided an intriguing (to some only, it would appear) mental exercise to divine the truth of the pen-laser photograph. Who will pick up the gauntlet? Are you not equipped?

As Ever
Temporal Recon
 

Einstein

Temporal Engineer
Messages
5,367
Actually, Paula, I believe you missed my point altogether.

To elucidate:

My point was not to argue for or against the pen laser photograph, it was to highlight that Mr. Einstein is presenting his theoryas fact. He indeed did not present his statement as his opinion, as you wrongly interpret. You are coming to his defense by putting words into his mouth that he did not speak.

To whit:

It has been shown that the laser photo has been faked. Thus reducing the credibility of John Titor’s story to Zero.”

Mr. Einstein’s opinion is not at issue, Paula. It is his obvious deception that I take as a personal and intellectual affront.

Mr. Einstein specifically avoided stating that his ‘proof’ was his opinion. Nowhere in his claim did Mr. Einstein state that the pen laser photo was faked was his opinion (e.g. “it has been shown..”). His second statement only highlights his ignorance of the time travel question in general.

Mr. Darby engaged in the same deceptions over the last decade. I will no longer brook this obvious duplicity. Those who look for real truth and are willing to follow the bread crumbs and gems where they lead are who I am speaking to.

Mr. Einstein and everyone here are indeed entitled to their opinions (subject to moderators’ censoring, of course. We can’t allow truly remarkable information here).

I am merely pointing out that Mr. Einstein purposefully couched his opinion as fact when it was merely his own pet (and uninformed) theory. Deception, by any other name, is just as evil.

And so, now I ask: deception intended for what outcome? Salacious vanity, or perhaps something less obvious?

I also notice that my original challenge goes unanswered. I provided an intriguing (to some only, it would appear) mental exercise to divine the truth of the pen-laser photograph. Who will pick up the gauntlet? Are you not equipped?

As Ever
Temporal Recon

Who are you? You certainly are not the Temporal Recon I used to converse with many years ago. Your writing style has no resemblance at all to Temporal Recon. I might also add the the last communication with the real Temporal Recon.was in a PM where he informed me that he had no intention of ever posting on this site again.

My evidence for the laser photo was gleaned from what the scientific community teaches in school. In reality there is no laboratory confirmation that light can be bent by gravity at all. The bending of light has to be performed by a lens material. It was well documented and duplicated on the anomalies forum that the laser photo was made with a fiber optic cable.
 

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