Political dueling ground

[Anoah]

Political dueling ground

Right then,

It seems that there are more than a few of us on here that are highly political and like to hash it all about. That is awesome.

However we are often getting off topic and sending threads off into charged political tangents. Let us try and keep it all on this one.

Do you think Bush stole the election? Are democrats bleeding heart liberal good for nothings? Big government or small government? Are Bush's tax cuts a gift to the rich and a curse to struggling americans? Was the US right to go to war in Iraq? Kerry versus Bush, Blair vs everyone etc etc etc.....

All right let's get it out of our systems on here and remember guys................ Let's be nice. Of course if you get into it with yours truly you will go down. He he he :flirt:

 

[sosuemetoo]

Political dueling ground

Do you think Bush stole the election?

No, he did not. They recounted the votes after the election and found that Bush won anyway. This was probably reported on page 20 of the NYTimes. The problem with the election was the "hanging chad's" and trying to "interpret" a vote. IMO, if it's hanging, don't count it. Further, the dem's were trying to stop the counting of absentee votes from the military...they knew that those would mainly be votes for Bush.

Are democrats bleeding heart liberal good for nothings?

No, but I often wonder if they are misled by government telling them "we will help you." You have to learn how to help yourself. It becomes more difficult everyday to help onesself when the dems want to cut out tax cuts and raise our taxes.

Big government or small government?

As small and inobtrusive as possible. There is so much government waste as it is, and pork programs that I have to pay for.

Are Bush's tax cuts a gift to the rich and a curse to struggling
americans?

This is so totally untrue and it is the mantra that Kerry has been saying since January. I'm not rich, I'm in a lower tax bracket. I got the tax cut and the early tax checks. Further, my tax return check was bigger this year then I have ever had. My brother is in a higher tax bracket, he paid taxes for the first time in nine years.

Was the US right to go to war in Iraq?

Yes we were. I'm not going to argue about WMD's or an Al-Qaeda connection. There were 17 resolutions broken, and people being tortured and starved to death by Saddam and his henchmen. Saddam was busy taking his Oil for Food money and paying off members of the UN to vote for him. Very sick if you ask me.

Kerry versus Bush, Blair vs everyone etc etc etc.....

Bush will win this election. There are many people in the US who are undecided at this point...I believe if they look at their most recent tax returns, have gone back to work, and if they feel safe after 9/11...they will vote for Bush.

It isn't Bush & Blair against the world. There is a coalition of many countries that are helping out with the war on terrorism. You may not see their boots on the ground, but they are sending money and supplies.

 

[Unintentional]

Political dueling ground

My biggest contention is the unadmitted bias in the media. Lately I have been following the Electorial College Polls where they only count electorial votes. It is amusing how far they tilt that to Kerry.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
IN the above link they have:

Safe Kerry (157)
Weak Kerry (17)
Barely Kerry (128)
Barely Bush (38)
Weak Bush (50)
Safe Bush (144)

Kerry 302 Bush 232

Looks like Bush is in trouble, don't it? If you look closely, you see 128 EVs that are BARELY Kerry and 38 that are BARELY Bush. That is the telling story. If you look further in the site, you find out that the BARELY states are either unpolled and the map makers decided they were BARELY whoever won it in 2000 AND/OR too close to call and the map makers decided they were BARELY whoever won it in 2000 even if indeed the state is actually leaning Bush. Except for Florida, that state is BARELY Kerry for some strange reason. :lol: I would venture a REALISTIC guess and say about 1/2 of those BARELY Kerry states are going to go to Bush for a REALISTIC total of Bush 296 Kerry 238.

This is of corse only ONE of a near infinite example of media bias and not even near some of the most outrageous ones like 9-11 commision says there was no Al-Queda - Iraq link when in fact the commision said the exact opposite. Trouble is one paper lies and they all parrot it especially if it looks bad for Bush. An older but just as outrageus one is the Abbi-Dabbi prison scandle where the International Red Cross was quoted as saying the abuse was wide spread when in fact the report from IRC said exactly the opposite.

 

[Unintentional]

Political dueling ground

August
Posted: Jun 22 2004, 04:47 AM

3. The FBI is here in New England raiding art galleries. I posted this story 2 weeks ago.

I am posting this here, because my engagement with August is off (if any of you sent presents and didn't get them back it is because August opened them) :lol: !

Now see here is an example of Bias. Not necessarily media bias, but bias never the less. The actually story is ONE radical professor who preached biological terror in his lectures, books and papers had his home raided where they took equipment that could be used to actually full fill his deisires. His defenders say it was for an "art" performance show where apparently they were going to show everybody how easy it was to do. Well I guess the FBI showed the would be attendees to this show that it is not easy because if you have the stuff and preach terror, the FBI is gonna take your stuff away! :lol: Now thats art! :lol:

So anyways ONE professor's home becomes art galleries, when in fact it was ZERO galleries and ONE professor's home.

Virtually every one of the "anybody but Bush" and MOVEON.ORG (a web site that ironically says you should not get over 2000 election and MOVEON with your life) arguements falls apart like the above example with closer inspection.

 

[CaryP]

Political dueling ground

The whole political system is screwed. We get to vote between two New Englad elitists, who are both connected to NWO organisations (Skull and Bones, Committe on Foreign Relations, Bildesberg Group and the Trilateral Commission). What a country!! The income tax system is basically unconstitutional and illegal, and yes it's tilted to benefit the ultra-wealthy who comprise the NWO groups, IMO. The Iraq war was based on a pack of total lies, and we have over 800 "kids" dead and thousands mutilated over Dubya's premeditated war. The current administration is filled with a gang of criminals, but the alternative is only slightly less bad. Did Bush steal the last election? No, his daddy stacked the Supreme Court for him and his little brother helped with along. "Rigged" would be a more appropriate term. Small government is the only kind of "friendly" government. Big government is always oppressive, not matter how you slice it. Democrats are part of the same problem as Republicans, they've become slightly different versions of a one party system - the Demopublicans or the Republicrats - choose your poison, they'll both kill you. Now where's that revolution when we need it? Vote Libertarian even if you're "wasting your vote." It matters this time more than ever.

Cary

P.S. Rant over for now. Where the hell is Paul on this? I need ya' bro', your superior legal/constitutional mind and all that eloquence, really.

 

[sosuemetoo]

Political dueling ground

we have over 800 \"kids\" dead

And how many Americans are dead and buried to free the Europeans during WWII? I believe the death toll is much more. And it was worth it IMO. Give this some time and you may have a different opinion.

 

[Unintentional]

Political dueling ground

Originally posted by CaryP@Jun 23 2004, 12:14 AM
The income tax system is basically unconstitutional and illegal, and yes it's tilted to benefit the ultra-wealthy who comprise the NWO groups, IMO.

Unconstitutional and illegal? YES!

Tilted to benefit the ultra rich? NO!

As of year 2000 figures from IRS:
The top 1% pay 37.42% of all income taxes
The top 5% pay 56.47% of all income taxes
The top 10% pay 67.33% of all income taxes
The top 25% pay 84.01% of all income taxes
The top 50% pay 96.09% of all income taxes

Source: Internal Revenue Service, Statistics of Income Division, Unpublished Statistics, September 2002.

Adjusted gross income in dollars:
313,469 or above 1%
128,336 or above 5%
92,144 or above 10%
55,225 or above 25%
27,682 or above 50%

This information was gathered during the debate when the dems kept screaming the top 50% is getting more than 50% of the tax cuts (meaning they got more than 50% of the 1.3 trillion tax cuts)!! Wah, wah, wah! IMO if the top 50% got anything less than 96.09% of the tax cut they got screwed!! I do remember the mantra, "the top 1% is getting 15% of the 1.3 trillion dollar tax cut". Since they paid 37% of that 1.3 trillion dollars, they got screwed!

When you factor in "earned" income the tax system is really a transfer of wealth from the "rich" (when dems say "rich" they people who earn more than $27,682) to those who dont pay any income taxes.

Since the tax cuts were unbalanced (i.e. the non tax payers got more percentage wise than tax payers), the above figures are even more tilted to the top. Look at the top chart. The numbers 37.42......56.47......67.33......84.01......96.09 today would all be HIGHER!

Time Travel Forum

 

[Cornelia]

Political dueling ground

The wealthiest must pay more taxes to run the welfare for the people.
This is what we think in Europe... and that's how my mother had a transplant without paying a single cent (or selling her house...)

 

[Anoah]

Political dueling ground

The wealthiest must pay more taxes to run the welfare for the people.
This is what we think in Europe... and that's how my mother had a transplant without paying a single cent (or selling her house...)

Cornelia, I just want to run something by you here just to play devil's advocate.

Why should the wealthiest be responsible for the welfare of the people? If someone works like a dog and does really really well for himself through hard work and education........ why should he pay tons of tax to support someone who has never worked a day in his life and lives off of the system. Why is someone who does well financially, who is paying the bulk of the taxes in society, be punished for others who don't work as hard?

I am by no means saying that everyone who is wealthy works hard and everyone who is poor is lazy. But I still want to hear your opinion.

 

[DadOf5]

Political dueling ground

Anoah, I know you addressed your post to Cornelia, but I'd like to give an opinion from a little different pespective.

My wife and I have five children ranging in age from 11 years to 11 months. I work and my wife goes to college. We do get a small amount of assistance in the form of WIC and reduced prices on school lunches, as well as grants for my wife's education.

I do not feel as though we are sponging off the system. I have been in the workforce and paid taxes for 20 years now. Without the assistance we do get, my wife would be unable to further her education and would have to probably get some sort of menial job to help support us.

Should the people who have already made their fortunes lend a helping hand to those like us who are working like dogs to better ourselves? Or should they leave us, our children, and grandchildren to work in menial jobs without a chance to better ourselves?

I think anyone who can work, should work. That's a given for me. I have little sympathy for those that do sponge off the system. But, to tax the wealthy less, which would cut out most forms of assistance, would be wrong to me.