Problems with time traveling

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Fringan

Junior Member
Messages
48
Problems with time traveling

A classic problem with time traveling is if you built a time machine and went back in time to when you were born, found the infant you and killed it what would happen?

Logically, if you were killed just after you were born you wouldn't grow up and live to the moment when you go back in time and kill youself. Therefore, in order for time travel to be possible the universe has to consist of multiple realities (or dimensions) and time traveling would only be possible from one reality to another, not within the same reality.

Ofcourse there is a possibility there is just one reality but if timetravel would be possible within that reality you would be able to go back to your birth but you wouldn't be able to kill yourself, because if you did you would instantly disapear because of the the above fact that you never grew up to go back. If you died as a child you couldn't go back and kill yourself, could you?
Maybe the "one reality theory" had to mean there is a sealed fate for everyone and everything since there would be things you could and couldn't do. Let me explain: Let's say you start building a time machine after reading this. Your traveling in time eventaully leads to you beeing shot and deadly wounded. You decide your machine is too dangerous so you rig it with dynamite and a timer so it blows up a minute after you go back in time to the moment you are reading this to warn you NOT to build that time machine. So as you are reading this, a future you pop up next to you, warn you about building the time machine and then die from his wound. This event would evetually lead up to you somehow HAVE TO build a time machine and become mortally wounded and to back in time to warn yourself, even though you have warned yourself. Everything you tried to do to avoid this from happening would only be you fulfilling another step of your predetermined fate.
The more I think of it, the less probable i find time traveling to exist in a universe with only one reality/dimension.

No, for time traveling to exist there have to be 1/0 (infinite) number of "timelines" or possible configurations of the universe to travel between. I think of it like an infinite number of "bubbles" containing the entire universe in one of its possible configurations, that is something like a freeze frame of every sub atomic particle in a certain place and state. Time would just be passing through "bubbles" or configurations, one bubble for each of the smallest possible change in the configuration.
"Time" would only be able to jump from the bubble it's currently at to the ones where the changes in the next bubble compared to the one before follows the laws of nature.
If this was true, time traveling would basically be to learn how to break the laws of nature and to leave the time line we are currently in and "jump" to another timeline running through the same or similar bubble/configurations of the universe before or after where we are currently at.

I realize this also would mean there is no free will and I guess that might upset alot of people :p

My conclusion is that we have to learn how the universe works in detail before it will be possible to travel in time (or prove that it's impossible).
 

John

Member
Messages
316
Problems with time traveling

Nice post. I don't think anyone here believes in the "single" worldline theory. I may be wrong but I think we all agree that multiple worldlines exist with slight divergences between them.

Welcome to the community Fringan.
 

Fringan

Junior Member
Messages
48
Problems with time traveling

Originally posted by Satan@Aug 27 2004, 02:03 PM
Nice post. I don't think anyone here believes in the \"single\" worldline theory. I may be wrong but I think we all agree that multiple worldlines exist with slight divergences between them.

Welcome to the community Fringan.

Thank you!

I only started thinking of this a few days ago so I guess you could say I'm not aware of what he common beliefs and thoughts on the topic are.

If most of us agree on that there should be an infinite number of worlds (in case time traveling is possible), then how do most people define "time" and mans possibility to ever control it?

Let's say I copy my mind (my memories and thoughts, my whole beeing except the physical body) to a computer and have that copy of myself living in there (known as "uploading"), the mind inside the computer would be "me" from the moment i got copied on there. The computer me would ofcourse start developing in another direction than the I outside the computer and would hopefully think it was really cool. The only way I, the original, could get anything out of it would be by hearing about or studying the other me since I wouldn't experiencing it.

This isn't really thought through but if there is no "time" as such and perhaps there are an infinite number of possible configurations of the universe (and therefore an infinite number of I's) maybe we are all already time travelling without noticing it?

I don't know, what do you think? :)
 

John

Member
Messages
316
Problems with time traveling

I can see you are going to be an excellent community member and fit right in. I look forward to reading your posts in the future.
 

diabeditor

New Member
Messages
10
Problems with time traveling

For those of you who are John Titor believers, it's worth noting that he spoke of multiple world lines, with slight divergences between them. However, he did go back and visit his younger self. If he were to kill his younger self, it wouldn't matter, it would not create a paradox. Mother Nature or God or somebody has safeguards in place to keep us from destroying the universe.
 

Ralan

Member
Messages
361
Problems with time traveling

I believe in the single worldline theory.

Another Problem with Time Travelling:

Time travel in any form requires every nanosecond state of the universe to be recorded somewhere. This essentially means the the mass of the universe is infinate and variable. Why would this happen? We know that everything happens in time order; yesterday was yesterday, today is today and tommorrow is tommorrow. So why and how is the universe duplicating itself at every single point through its progression and storing a 'save' file for us to open up when we time travel? Even more complicated is the idea of multiple world lines, in which this same idea would apply, but multiplied again by infinity!

Another thing I thought while writing this; I would say the shortest possible division of time is the time it takes for the smallest possible particle to move the shortest distance recordable (its own length in the direction it is travelling). This further complicates the argument above by a massive amount.
 

Grayson

Senior Member
Messages
1,079
Problems with time traveling

Originally posted by Ralan@Aug 27 2004, 11:00 PM
I believe in the single worldline theory.

Another Problem with Time Travelling:

Time travel in any form requires every nanosecond state of the universe to be recorded somewhere. This essentially means the the mass of the universe is infinate and variable. Why would this happen? We know that everything happens in time order; yesterday was yesterday, today is today and tommorrow is tommorrow. So why and how is the universe duplicating itself at every single point through its progression and storing a 'save' file for us to open up when we time travel? Even more complicated is the idea of multiple world lines, in which this same idea would apply, but multiplied again by infinity!

Another thing I thought while writing this; I would say the shortest possible division of time is the time it takes for the smallest possible particle to move the shortest distance recordable (its own length in the direction it is travelling). This further complicates the argument above by a massive amount.


This Bucket theory stacks up well in my mind. Basically the Universe can only hold so much of itself at any one time, that's the Bucket theory.
 

Fringan

Junior Member
Messages
48
Problems with time traveling

Originally posted by diabeditor@Aug 27 2004, 10:48 PM
For those of you who are John Titor believers, it's worth noting that he spoke of multiple world lines, with slight divergences between them. However, he did go back and visit his younger self. If he were to kill his younger self, it wouldn't matter, it would not create a paradox. Mother Nature or God or somebody has safeguards in place to keep us from destroying the universe.

I have to read up on that John Titor guy. (sounds to me like a made up name, Titor - 'Teeter' - T T R - Time TraveleR, but anyway.. :) ). I don't know anything about him or what he is claiming though.

I don't think there has to be a god or any other kind of safe guard to protect the universe from paradoxes or destruction since it shouldn't be possible to travel to the same reality, ever. (In that case no paradoxes could ever occur and there would exist an infinite number of universes already ended and/or destroyed). You could go to very similar timelines but probably never the same.

I've been thinking more and more of my Uploading example above and I think I'll soon be ready to write down a new theory :)
 

Fringan

Junior Member
Messages
48
Problems with time traveling

Originally posted by Ralan+Aug 28 2004, 12:00 AM--><div class='quotemain'>I believe in the single worldline theory.

We know that everything happens in time order; yesterday was yesterday, today is today and tommorrow is tommorrow.
[/b]


I agree there could be a single timeline, but then time travel can't be possible.
I'm only trying to figure out what the universe had to be like in order for time travel to be possible.

We know we percive in time order. "Time order" is probably just invented by the human mind, just as the word "intelligence" :).


Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 12:00 AM
Even more complicated is the idea of multiple world lines, in which this same idea would apply, but multiplied again by infinity!

I'm not 100% sure about the matematics but isnt infinity^infinity=infinity? :)
I'm not so sure it would be more complicated.


<!--QuoteBegin-Ralan
@Aug 28 2004, 12:00 AM
Another thing I thought while writing this; I would say the shortest possible division of time is the time it takes for the smallest possible particle to move the shortest distance recordable (its own length in the direction it is travelling). This further complicates the argument above by a massive amount.
[/quote]

Hmm.. Half the time of that event would be a shorter moment, don't you think? :)
Also, I think the same thing would go for the shortest distance.

One again we will get back to 1/0 (infinitly small distance or time) (i think)
 

Ralan

Member
Messages
361
Problems with time traveling

I agree there could be a single timeline, but then time travel can't be possible.

Bugger! I didnae think o' that!

I'm not 100% sure about the matematics but isnt infinity^infinity=infinity?
I'm not so sure it would be more complicated.

I mean there be two different complications aren't there? First, for time travel to exist, the universe has to be infinate and variable in mass, second, for the parallell universe theory and therefore time travel to exist, there has to be an infinite number of these infinite universes. MiNd BoGgLiNg! :)

Hmm.. Half the time of that event would be a shorter moment, don't you think?
Also, I think the same thing would go for the shortest distance.

Ah, but...

We know we percive in time order. \"Time order\" is probably just invented by the human mind, just as the word \"intelligence\"

Time is our own invention, so we can put limits on it. We can say that the smallest amount of time measurable is this, etc. Same with distance. Both time and distance existed without sentiency, but we labeled them and defined them in our own way, without neccessarily understanding or explaining them properly. :)

Looking forward to getting murdered by your Scienticianism further in the future Fringy my lad!
 

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