The Perfect Nation

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Cosmo

Senior Member
Messages
2,865
The Perfect Nation

A few days ago I got it in my head that what this world needs is a perfect country.

Now, I know that all the (habitable) land in the world is already owned by one nation or another, but what about in 2012... When everything is supposed to go to hell?

I know this is just a crazy pipe dream right now, but who knows? 8 years from now we may be changing our tune.... Plus, it's fun to think about.

I think something a perfectly governed nation would do is use a clean, enviromentally sound source of energy. Solar, wind, electric cars.... The works.

Politicians are far too greedy and corrupt in this day and age. We need a nation where there is a balance of power between the people and the state. I don't know too much on how to design an entirely new form of government where no one man or agency could be in power... But it's what is needed I think.

What do you guys think? What would the perfect nation be? How would it operate? What would it's constitution be?

The world needs an example to follow.
 

Cosmo

Senior Member
Messages
2,865
The Perfect Nation

One other thing:

America started as sort of a "pefect nation", but has since degenerated into the (sorry to say) disliked country it is today. America needs its diaper changed.
 

Phoenix

Active Member
Messages
622
The Perfect Nation

I have actually given this much thought.

Yes, our energy source and distribution is one obvious correction to society that may be implemented. Also the notion and practice of "disposal" needs a careful rethink. Ultimately we must lose the idea of "getting rid" of things in our material world and instead look at them in terms of the enduring atoms that they are. Atoms that merely serve different roles and functions over time. We must take continuing responsibility for the effects that occur in our domain, including effects on living species. We must overcome our mania ideas of "conquring nature" and even our "leave untouched" psychology of low self esteem. We must have the maturity to be willing to take action in the world we live in and symbiotically live in our living world. No longer behind fences and walls but part of natural systems.

Power will always assert itself. The passive pacifist is easily chained and made a slave by force. Power does not have to be evil, still it is very easy to not think about principle if you have power. Ideals and principles as currently taught and understood are often times made into unrealistic expectations and good intentions that are not thought through but cruelly held in place "for the good of the people". The understanding and effective preservation of power and authority is not the part of our society that is under developed or needing drastic reform, what needs much work is our humanity and practice of love. There is much to be desired in the "love" of a PETA member who stabs a woman in a fur coat with an ice pick or the pot shots taken at abortion clinics. Even the idea of "putting children first" takes odd and demented denotations in this time of Ritlan and Child Protection Agencies.

I wrote much more on my web site, The Rabbit Hole, that goes into more detail about such ideas, but I am happy to continue here and I will. These are just some initial ideas.
 

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,438
The Perfect Nation

Heggy,

This is a good topic for discussion. One thing to reconsider is the idea of a "perfect" nation or a "perfect" constitution. Perfection is probably not something to be desired here. Perfection requires flawless performance without a trace of blemish. By the time every conceivable variance was contemplated, anticipated and prepared for, your model would be an unworkable heap of complicated, bureaucratic morass. And your well thought out plans would have missed something anyway. Maybe something along the lines of "effective" govt. and accompanying constitution would be more workable. So long as the "effective" was meant for the general good of those to be governed rather than the govt. itself.

Yes, I would agree that this country started on a solid footing, but it was far from perfect. My assessment is that we have drifted into many of the perils our Founding Fathers anticipated and warned us about over 200 years ago. The power of the federal government has been on a steady rise since the Civil War. Maybe a return to pre-Civil War standards of power in the federal govt. would be a good start. The complexity of what is expected of govt. versus what it is capable of effectively delivering to the governed has become corrupted and twisted into one of the greatest "shell" games of all times. A thorough house cleaning is probably warranted. This would also require the "retraining" of a good portion of the populace - the government is not the provider of solutions to all that ails you, as many have come to expect. Many of the social and entitlement programs of the federal govt. are a huge reason for its burdensome yoke on the populace. The federal bureaucracy has become like a giant squid in the Jules Verne classic "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" with its tentacles enveloping everything and everyone under the sun. The presence and intrusion of the federal govt. is inescapable on a daily, if not hourly basis. A presence that I'm sure our Founding Fathers had not envisioned, and certainly not wished for.

Just my thoughts for now.

Cary
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
The Perfect Nation

We deserve our own government, which we envision as one which strives for perfection by enacting our ideals.

Ideals change over time; we designed the government to be flexible. Ideals by definition are the values of Utopia.

I wish you would all see the long post by Grayson in the "Misrule" thread; I believe it is opposed to the American notion that government should be in the hands of the people and open to challenge by them at any time.
 

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,438
The Perfect Nation

I wish you would all see the long post by Grayson in the \"Misrule\" thread; I believe it is opposed to the American notion that government should be in the hands of the people and open to challenge by them at any time.

Seen it, read it, didn't care for it much at all. No disrespect to Grayson, but that don't sound like the kind of govt. I'd want to have any part of.

Hitler allowed commerce to continue and flourish unfettered to support the war effort. Big whoop. In the end, Germany was almost totally destroyed. The corporatists here are being allowed to flourish almost unfettered to support the war effort.

One of the most common consequences of settlements in the financial services industry is the "neither confirms nor denies" allegations, pays what looks like a large sum, but is a mere pittence of the money scammed from unwary investors. Yes, some ex-executives are being charged and tried for misdeeds and criminal acts, but nothing compared to the hundreds of millions they lined their pockets with, and a speck compared to the billions lost by investors.

Been looking kinda spooky for a few years now.

Cary
 

Phoenix

Active Member
Messages
622
The Perfect Nation

This is a good topic for discussion. One thing to reconsider is the idea of a \"perfect\" nation or a \"perfect\" constitution. Perfection is probably not something to be desired here. Perfection requires flawless performance without a trace of blemish. By the time every conceivable variance was contemplated, anticipated and prepared for, your model would be an unworkable heap of complicated, bureaucratic morass. And your well thought out plans would have missed something anyway.
I think this is an incredibly good point.

I would go further and state not only would your plans have missed something but more then likely they would have really messed a few or more things up as well. I don't care if you have the Nobel prize staff working on it.

Second point, I think there are several workable models. We should not limit ourself to an idea of a perfect governement that all "nonperfect" governments represent the enemy. I think the act of trying to improve things and working towards those ends, and trying to see that goal actualized in a quality form, is what matters most.
 

Grayson

Senior Member
Messages
1,079
The Perfect Nation

Originally posted by CaryP@Aug 31 2004, 04:42 PM
I wish you would all see the long post by Grayson in the \"Misrule\" thread; I believe it is opposed to the American notion that government should be in the hands of the people and open to challenge by them at any time.

Seen it, read it, didn't care for it much at all. No disrespect to Grayson, but that don't sound like the kind of govt. I'd want to have any part of.

Been looking kinda spooky for a few years now.

Cary


Irrespective of what you want, that is the system of Government in which you live.

No disrespect was read into your reply. ;)
 

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,438
The Perfect Nation

Irrespective of what you want, that is the system of Government in which you live.

Yep, maybe worse for all we know. The practice of deceit has become a foundation for the federal government for who knows how long.

That's what we're trying to change. What we got rates about a 12 on the "Sucks" scale (1 being minimal suckage, 10 being maximum suckage anticipated) from where this thing got started. Are there worse places to be? Sure. But that doesn't mean we have to keep on taking this crap that's been going on for decades.

Unfortunately, it will probably take an earthshaking wake up call to get most of the Joe and Jane Six Packs off their collective asses. Fortunately, the alarm clock is about to go off and there's no snooze button. Bad news is, nobody's going to like the new day.

Cary
 

Cosmo

Senior Member
Messages
2,865
The Perfect Nation

If only there was a bunch of unclaimed land.... We could all move there and be one big happy country.

Our government has too tight a grip on everything these days.... And to quote a line from Star Wars:

"The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"

(braces self for the beating about to ensue)
 

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