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Old 09-23-2004 #1
JediStryker
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I remember that a discussion about the "Church" started somewhere, but I cannot remember where or whether or not the situation was resolved.
I personally don't understand the need for a 'seperation of church and state' on a message board. All it really means is that there is a forum that the mods and admins have no control over. What is the purpose of such a board, except perhaps to give the members an opportunity to malign the staff behind their backs? Not that I care about such things, but it seems sort of silly to have to hide a board from the very people dedicating time and effort to keeping this place running smoothly.
Please give feedback/advice.
I guess that this was Phoenix's brainchild, but I personally just don't understand it.
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Old 09-23-2004 #2
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I think that we should have it, because the admins and the mods can speak without the users seeing it, so why shouldn't we have the same? Because you guys are the chosen? Don't think so. I can think of 3 people immediately that I can easily imagine being mods at least. Maybe they just have the potential but don't want to do anything? Anyway, I trailed off.
-p) We should have the same rights as the admins, in fact, I would take out that 'you cannot insult admins' instead of 'you cannot insult guests or members', because that gives admins special 'powers'. As this is not part of this topic, I will stop here. But we should keep the church.
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Old 09-23-2004 #3
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Yes I do, and will in a bit. Thank You.
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Old 09-23-2004 #4
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I think that we should have it, because the admins and the mods can speak without the users seeing it, so why shouldn't we have the same?
The main purpose for staff's having private forums is so that we can discuss issues and problems without them becoming fodder for gossip on the board in general. People deserve privacy, and some issues need to be handled with tact.
Because you guys are the chosen? Don't think so.
No one on the staff, as far as I'm aware, is under the impression that they are in any way, shape, or form a member of an elite group on the board. If they do, then it's pretty sad because this is a message board, not a secret government bent on world domination. Am I 'The Chosen'? Don't be ridiculous. If anything, this job has taken a certain amount of my enjoyment of the board away from me, because I have to look at everything from an administrative perspective.
I can think of 3 people immediately that I can easily imagine being mods at least. Maybe they just have the potential but don't want to do anything? Anyway, I trailed off.-p)
Are you possibly referring to yourself? I don't mean to imply any dubious agenda here on your part, but what exactly does this have to do with this thread?
We should have the same rights as the admins, in fact, I would take out that 'you cannot insult admins' instead of 'you cannot insult guests or members', because that gives admins special 'powers'. As this is not part of this topic, I will stop here. But we should keep the church.
I can agree to changing the wording of that particular rule. The admins are not and never were to be treated as 'superior' to anyone else. As for the church, your opinion is duly noted. Thank you.
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Old 09-23-2004 #5
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Okay, I could be wrong about all of this, but here is my understanding of The Church.
First of all, the church is viewable and postable by all members except for Mods and Admin.
I was told by Phoenix that the purpose of the church was:
1. To keep the spiritual part of this site alive.
2. A refuge to members should the Admin and Mod staff implode.
I'm just taking a guess that Phoenix and others felt this was needed after the ttf.tk board imploded in June, then later in August.
Once again, I could be very wrong. But this is the way it was explained to me.
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Old 09-23-2004 #6
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First of all, the church is viewable and postable by all members except for Mods and Admin.
Why is this?
I was told by Phoenix that the purpose of the church was:
1. To keep the spiritual part of this site alive.
I would like to believe that I and the rest of the staff are just as much a part of the spiritual side of this site as anyone else.
2. A refuge to members should the Admin and Mod staff implode.
What purpose could this refuge serve if the staff 'imploded'? I just don't understand this.
Look, my intention is not to sit here and argue. If the majority wants it to stay open, then I won't worry about it. It's come to my attention that Satan does have access to the church, so things can't go hog-wild in there. I just don't understand the need for this forum, and don't understand why it needs to remain hidden from only the staff.
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Old 09-23-2004 #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by JediStryker@Sep 23 2004, 07:31 PM
First of all, the church is viewable and postable by all members except for Mods and Admin.
Why is this?
I don't know Jedi. I can only tell you what was told to me. I was hoping that one of the clergy members would join and explain it.
Quote:
I was told by Phoenix that the purpose of the church was:
1. To keep the spiritual part of this site alive.
I would like to believe that I and the rest of the staff are just as much a part of the spiritual side of this site as anyone else.
Yes, I agree. I believe Phoenix compared the church to a "lobbiest" The feeling was that the members of the church held "no office" and could lobby to the staff when things go awry.
Quote:
2. A refuge to members should the Admin and Mod staff implode.
What purpose could this refuge serve if the staff 'imploded'? I just don't understand this.
If there was a staff member that took a dictorial stance, it could be discussed in the church, and the clergy could go to a member of the staff to make things right. Again, I'm only telling you what was explained to me.
Quote:
Look, my intention is not to sit here and argue. If the majority wants it to stay open, then I won't worry about it. It's come to my attention that Satan does have access to the church, so things can't go hog-wild in there. I just don't understand the need for this forum, and don't understand why it needs to remain hidden from only the staff.
The fact that Satan, who is responsible for every written word on this site, could not get into the Church bothered me also. I had explained my concerns to Phoenix before he left. I understood at the time, that Phoenix would ask that Satan be allowed to view and post in the Church. This was granted before Phoenix left.
I guess we need to wait for Paul and Snow to address this subject, explain the purpose of the church, and the need to have it.
Again, as a mod, I represent the members here. If the majority want the church, I accept that fact. I only want Satan to have the ability to view everything on this site that he alone is responsible for in the end.
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Old 09-23-2004 #8
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Umm....
I can view the Church.
However, I do see that it is sorta, "unnecessarry" so to speak. Some people don't practice religions that have to do with Churches, but thats a entirely different issue.
Im all for the Clergy, but the Church, is just a waste, in my persepective.
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Old 09-23-2004 #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by sosuemetoo@Sep 23 2004, 08:57 PM
If there was a staff member that took a dictorial stance, it could be discussed in the church, and the clergy could go to a member of the staff to make things right. Again, I'm only telling you what was explained to me.
[snapback]10366[/snapback]
Just my two cents:
I think that the way the last problem was dealt with, (the way Cary did it) was very effective. As was stated in the chat, if the problem had been taken to the Church, it would have just festered and carried on.
Cary eliminated the problem in a DAY because he was upfront and to the point about it. He didn't go whispering behind anyone's back.
If you want to have a church thing, by all means... I just don't think it's wise to have if that's all it's going to be used for -- A gossip and complain forum.
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Old 09-24-2004 #10
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My quick 2 cents. I think since there is already a "movement" for the Church, it would seem arbitrary to suddenly cancel it. I think the Church should go on as planned, unless those designated as Clergy are indifferent. At the same time, the "secret" part of the Church is highly ill advised. I can see how staff needs an undisclosed forum for discussion out of public site - you never know what dirty laundry needs to be aired. The Church, on the other hand, has the huge possibility to turn into a place for anyone to whine and complain, bitch and moan, and generally malign members of the staff without any authority to take any direct, effective or appropriate action. Making complaints about others to those without the power or authority to take such action is just plain gossip.
Problems with the staff, take it up with Satan. Problems with Satan (I can't imagine that, but let's take this to logical conclusion) take it to the board. Not sure what to do, PM those who have like minded perspectives. Don't have the stomach to "make a go" of it, well just take it and shut up or go somewhere's else. Was it comfortable and "fun" to go head to head with Phoenix? No. Was I going to just "put up with it"? Hell no. Did I get hassled by the staff or Satan? Quite the opposite. I found the staff to be very helpful and supportive. Satan was nothing but objective, fair and honest. That's what makes this place so unique and wonderful.
Try going to anomalies.net and locking horns with Rick or Darby - you'll get your ass handed to you, with plenty of cheering from the sidelines to see you bleed. Olav, if you're reading this, you need to seriously reconsider this "Rick Donaldson" as anything more than a member, if that - PM me if you'd like details, but in a phrase, "what an asshole." I'd lock horns with him if it meant all that much to me, but frankly, I'd rather spend most of my time here. Anomalies just keeps going downhill IMO. (See what can happen gang. I'm not trying to berate anomanlies, but it's a great example of what we don't want to do, and is the only reason I went off on this tangent here.)
So do what you want with the Church. I think it's too late to "kill" it, but it's still way early to allow some secret hidden place to develop. You're just begging for an environment that could blow this whole thing out of the water with the secrecy aspect of it. Do what you want. Everybody try and remember this is a great place. Having "locked on" and dug in opinions about having it "YOUR WAY" are sure signs of trouble brewing. If things start to go wrong, just remember my tendancy is to be the "courir de merde" around here. I ain't about to stop. I love this place too much to remain silent when something or someone is in the process of screwing it up. I ain't always right, but I'm seldom quite.
Okay, mabe it was 5 cents, but I had to finish my thoughts.
Cary
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Old 09-24-2004 #11
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As absolute master and dominating force of the Church, or Clergy, or whatever it is (Phoenix never told me what it was exactly) I have deemed to my own satisfaction, which is all that matters, that there is no secrecy or confidentiality involved in it, or at least none that I have practiced; that it was manifestly not meant by me or anyone I have ordained, and I am the only one with authority to ordain squat, to be a place for bitching about staff, who can for all I care keep all of the secrets they want, although it bothers me that they feel called upon to keep stuff from us for their own benefit.
If anyone wants to know any secrets, please just ask, and make the staff squirm to come up with excuses for keeping them: but let me guess, it will be because it's necessary for our own good, something along those lines.
What, Jedi, you worried that people are going to huddle and badmouth the board? Relax: I know, I know, this kind of thing needles someone in your position. But we appreciate everything you all do, we love you, we want you to keep your chin up and watch out for the good of the board.
As far as I am concerned, anybody can read anything I post for any purpose, and I want nothing to do with posting in a secret thread. And it annoys me that I cannot post in some of the threads that I can read. What really is the point of that? Administrators and Moderators or whatever you want to title yourself: what's the big deal? I don't know, it just seems like you're all missing the point, which is to gain strength from open, free discussion of pressing topics.
Oh well.
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Old 09-24-2004 #12
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Done, per Paul's recommendation
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Old 09-24-2004 #13
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I await for Paul's take on this, However, Here is my understanding.
The church would be Pan-Religious, supporting a direction for all faiths regardless of genesis.
It would be responsible for a 'spiritual' direction , a source of humor, keep things moving. (Ahh yes, Holy Prune Juice)
Mods and admins would be able to read, But not able to post. ( I think that this was one of the directions that it would have taken had picklehead still been here) The reason being, we don't want a conflict by admins and or mods thinking that the church was a den/source of faultfinding, backbiting or mutinous base. (Arrrrrrr )
The theory being, a clergy would be directing its energies towards the upliftment of the forum whereas the admins and mods were for the mechanics and running of the forum. Keeping the direction apart insures two separate ideologies and modes of operating.
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Old 09-24-2004 #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Satan@Sep 24 2004, 09:27 AM
Done, per Paul's recommendation
[snapback]10400[/snapback]
Good and thank you LOL. But what was done exactly? Mods and Admins can now see the Church? Can they post? Who mods the Church now, still the clergy?
Just wondering . . .
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Old 09-24-2004 #15
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I plan on bringing up the issue with the Round Table being 'view-only' with the staff. I think that, with Phoenix's absence, there are a lot of little administrative things that I think should be reviewed. I actually think that anyone who can currently view the Round Table should be able to post there. Should every member? My gut feeling is no. There will be a place for staff to discuss things privately, but I don't see a need for more than one or two such forums.
I really am not an unfair person. If you don't want the staff to be able to post in the Church, that's fine. Again, I don't really see the need for it, but I think it's an acceptable comprimise. I will post my thoughts on other issues in the Round Table later today or early tomorrow. Thanks for discussing this with me.
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Old 09-24-2004 #16
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Jedi,
How about we let Elders and Legacy post in there? All the clergy are Legacy and Elders. Sound fair all?
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Old 09-24-2004 #17
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Double reply, sorry.
There are four areas which I do not think should be open.
1) The Dungeon - about trouble members. Reason: IP addresses and personal information discussed...privacy issue.
2) Royal Chamber - Area for only admins. Reason: Sensitive information in the way of usernames and passwords and regarding other board issues.
3) A hidden chamber - where I post all of my test stuff. Reason: No value added by granting access, it is a sandbox for my tests.
4) The Trash Can - where we put posts that are removed from the board. Reason: they are removed from the board for a reason.
I also think that we should retain the right to drop it to a read only access if nonsense spamming becomes an issue.
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Old 09-24-2004 #18
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I agree with both posts. Open up the RT to those who can already read it. Leave the forums you mentioned hidden.
I was going to bring this up in the RT, but what the heck, since we're discussing these types of things here. I would like to change the 'theme' of the staff from Royalty to something a little more administrative and a little less elite. Like simply "Admins" and "Mods". Actually, Knights are still cool, but having a "Royal" chambers, even if it is just a joke, just comes off as elitist to me. If no one else cares I'll drop the issue, but it's always bugged me.
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Old 09-24-2004 #19
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Done.
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Old 09-24-2004 #20
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Excellent. I very much think that we've taken some large strides in the right direction here today.
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Old 09-24-2004 #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Satan@Sep 24 2004, 06:28 PM
Double reply, sorry.
There are four areas which I do not think should be open.
1) The Dungeon - about trouble members. Reason: IP addresses and personal information discussed...privacy issue.
2) Royal Chamber - Area for only admins. Reason: Sensitive information in the way of usernames and passwords and regarding other board issues.
3) A hidden chamber - where I post all of my test stuff. Reason: No value added by granting access, it is a sandbox for my tests.
4) The Trash Can - where we put posts that are removed from the board. Reason: they are removed from the board for a reason.
I also think that we should retain the right to drop it to a read only access if nonsense spamming becomes an issue.
[snapback]10411[/snapback]
Three and Four, I agree; One and Two, I agree only if there is no other way to hide the actually sensitive material (passwords, etc.).
Again, the position of the general membership is probably that all members should be able to read all material posted. If certain members want to conceal particular information, they should confine themselves to PM or email, and not impose obnoxious limits on a public message board.
On the other hand, the position of the general membership is probably that even Moderators and Administrators may find benefit in reading the posts of interested members in threads previously held exclusive to a certain privileged group. I use the term "privileged" in its strictest sense, to refer to a specific privilege.
In my own opinion, the recent crises we have experienced might have been avoided or mitigated if the circle of participants in its discussion had been widened to include many other members, whose counsel is not to be underestimated. It may be that some of the injured parties in the last shootout had requested anonymity or that the matter not be discussed openly; if so, I stand corrected, chastised, and silenced. However, I still think that others have the right to know the story, even if the names were changed to shield the innocent.
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Old 09-24-2004 #22
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Quote:
It may be that some of the injured parties in the last shootout had requested anonymity or that the matter not be discussed openly; if so, I stand corrected, chastised, and silenced. However, I still think that others have the right to know the story, even if the names were changed to shield the innocent.
Paul,
The members wish to not have to re-live the story by it being told and re-told and re-told. I respect their wishes. The only way it will be discussed, names changed or in any form, will be when all the parties involved all agree to have the story told. Until they agree, this is a moot point and no further discussion of the details should be revealed without their consent.
Curiosity is the driver for all of the "What happened? Be vague...." posts not the interest of the people involved. The people involved have either dealt with the issue on their own terms or wish to not have to rehash it out for the world to view. Please respect their actions and wishes Paul.
Quote:
Three and Four, I agree; One and Two, I agree only if there is no other way to hide the actually sensitive material (passwords, etc.).
There are other ways to hide the info but the way we do it now provides the most efficient and easiest means of disseminating the information to the Admins and Mods.
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Old 09-24-2004 #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Satan@Sep 24 2004, 07:56 PM
Quote:
It may be that some of the injured parties in the last shootout had requested anonymity or that the matter not be discussed openly; if so, I stand corrected, chastised, and silenced. However, I still think that others have the right to know the story, even if the names were changed to shield the innocent.
Paul,
The members wish to not have to re-live the story by it being told and re-told and re-told. I respect their wishes. The only way it will be discussed, names changed or in any form, will be when all the parties involved all agree to have the story told. Until they agree, this is a moot point and no further discussion of the details should be revealed without their consent.
Curiosity is the driver for all of the "What happened? Be vague...." posts not the interest of the people involved. The people involved have either dealt with the issue on their own terms or wish to not have to rehash it out for the world to view. Please respect their actions and wishes Paul.
[snapback]10417[/snapback]
To be retold, it must have been told to begin with; to be rehashed, it must first have been hashed.
I am making observations on recent events. Am I being told to stop discussing the topic?
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Old 09-24-2004 #24
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They have told and hashed it out to me and and other members of the board of their choosing. I am asking you to let dead dogs lie and let's move on to more pressing issues.
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Old 09-26-2004 #25
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In my own opinion, the recent crises we have experienced might have been avoided or mitigated if the circle of participants in its discussion had been widened to include many other members, whose counsel is not to be underestimated. It may be that some of the injured parties in the last shootout had requested anonymity or that the matter not be discussed openly; if so, I stand corrected, chastised, and silenced. However, I still think that others have the right to know the story, even if the names were changed to shield the innocent.
I strongly agree with this. A few weeks ago posts were made in the Church by a new member using the same IP address as me containing offensive comments towards Christians and other religions. As far as I know the matter was immediately taken up in the dungeon. However, as a normal member I didn't have access to that forum and recieved no mention of the situation at all from any of the mods or admins involved. Fortunately around that time I was made a part of the Clergy, which gave me the ability to see the Dungeon and Royal Castle forums, and was pointed in the right direction by Snow. It still wasn't until I PM'd one of the mods involved that I recieved any information about what was going on.
Not trying to stir up trouble but when members of the board are being discussed in a forum they should be able to see and post there themselves, or in the very least be notified about it.
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Old 09-23-2004 #1
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I remember that a discussion about the "Church" started somewhere, but I cannot remember where or whether or not the situation was resolved.
I personally don't understand the need for a 'seperation of church and state' on a message board. All it really means is that there is a forum that the mods and admins have no control over. What is the purpose of such a board, except perhaps to give the members an opportunity to malign the staff behind their backs? Not that I care about such things, but it seems sort of silly to have to hide a board from the very people dedicating time and effort to keeping this place running smoothly.
Please give feedback/advice.
I guess that this was Phoenix's brainchild, but I personally just don't understand it.
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Old 09-23-2004 #2
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I think that we should have it, because the admins and the mods can speak without the users seeing it, so why shouldn't we have the same? Because you guys are the chosen? Don't think so. I can think of 3 people immediately that I can easily imagine being mods at least. Maybe they just have the potential but don't want to do anything? Anyway, I trailed off.
-p) We should have the same rights as the admins, in fact, I would take out that 'you cannot insult admins' instead of 'you cannot insult guests or members', because that gives admins special 'powers'. As this is not part of this topic, I will stop here. But we should keep the church.__________________
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Old 09-23-2004 #3
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Yes I do, and will in a bit. Thank You.
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Old 09-23-2004 #4
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I think that we should have it, because the admins and the mods can speak without the users seeing it, so why shouldn't we have the same?
The main purpose for staff's having private forums is so that we can discuss issues and problems without them becoming fodder for gossip on the board in general. People deserve privacy, and some issues need to be handled with tact.
Because you guys are the chosen? Don't think so.
No one on the staff, as far as I'm aware, is under the impression that they are in any way, shape, or form a member of an elite group on the board. If they do, then it's pretty sad because this is a message board, not a secret government bent on world domination. Am I 'The Chosen'? Don't be ridiculous. If anything, this job has taken a certain amount of my enjoyment of the board away from me, because I have to look at everything from an administrative perspective.
I can think of 3 people immediately that I can easily imagine being mods at least. Maybe they just have the potential but don't want to do anything? Anyway, I trailed off.
-p)Are you possibly referring to yourself? I don't mean to imply any dubious agenda here on your part, but what exactly does this have to do with this thread?
We should have the same rights as the admins, in fact, I would take out that 'you cannot insult admins' instead of 'you cannot insult guests or members', because that gives admins special 'powers'. As this is not part of this topic, I will stop here. But we should keep the church.
I can agree to changing the wording of that particular rule. The admins are not and never were to be treated as 'superior' to anyone else. As for the church, your opinion is duly noted. Thank you.
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Old 09-23-2004 #5
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Okay, I could be wrong about all of this, but here is my understanding of The Church.
First of all, the church is viewable and postable by all members except for Mods and Admin.
I was told by Phoenix that the purpose of the church was:
1. To keep the spiritual part of this site alive.
2. A refuge to members should the Admin and Mod staff implode.
I'm just taking a guess that Phoenix and others felt this was needed after the ttf.tk board imploded in June, then later in August.
Once again, I could be very wrong. But this is the way it was explained to me.
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Old 09-23-2004 #6
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First of all, the church is viewable and postable by all members except for Mods and Admin.
Why is this?
I was told by Phoenix that the purpose of the church was:
1. To keep the spiritual part of this site alive.
I would like to believe that I and the rest of the staff are just as much a part of the spiritual side of this site as anyone else.
2. A refuge to members should the Admin and Mod staff implode.
What purpose could this refuge serve if the staff 'imploded'? I just don't understand this.
Look, my intention is not to sit here and argue. If the majority wants it to stay open, then I won't worry about it. It's come to my attention that Satan does have access to the church, so things can't go hog-wild in there. I just don't understand the need for this forum, and don't understand why it needs to remain hidden from only the staff.
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Old 09-23-2004 #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by JediStryker@Sep 23 2004, 07:31 PM
First of all, the church is viewable and postable by all members except for Mods and Admin.
Why is this?
I don't know Jedi. I can only tell you what was told to me. I was hoping that one of the clergy members would join and explain it.
Quote:
I was told by Phoenix that the purpose of the church was:
1. To keep the spiritual part of this site alive.
I would like to believe that I and the rest of the staff are just as much a part of the spiritual side of this site as anyone else.
Yes, I agree. I believe Phoenix compared the church to a "lobbiest" The feeling was that the members of the church held "no office" and could lobby to the staff when things go awry.
Quote:
2. A refuge to members should the Admin and Mod staff implode.
What purpose could this refuge serve if the staff 'imploded'? I just don't understand this.
If there was a staff member that took a dictorial stance, it could be discussed in the church, and the clergy could go to a member of the staff to make things right. Again, I'm only telling you what was explained to me.
Quote:
Look, my intention is not to sit here and argue. If the majority wants it to stay open, then I won't worry about it. It's come to my attention that Satan does have access to the church, so things can't go hog-wild in there. I just don't understand the need for this forum, and don't understand why it needs to remain hidden from only the staff.
The fact that Satan, who is responsible for every written word on this site, could not get into the Church bothered me also. I had explained my concerns to Phoenix before he left. I understood at the time, that Phoenix would ask that Satan be allowed to view and post in the Church. This was granted before Phoenix left.
I guess we need to wait for Paul and Snow to address this subject, explain the purpose of the church, and the need to have it.
Again, as a mod, I represent the members here. If the majority want the church, I accept that fact. I only want Satan to have the ability to view everything on this site that he alone is responsible for in the end.
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Old 09-23-2004 #8
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Umm....
I can view the Church.
However, I do see that it is sorta, "unnecessarry" so to speak. Some people don't practice religions that have to do with Churches, but thats a entirely different issue.
Im all for the Clergy, but the Church, is just a waste, in my persepective.
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Old 09-23-2004 #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by sosuemetoo@Sep 23 2004, 08:57 PM
If there was a staff member that took a dictorial stance, it could be discussed in the church, and the clergy could go to a member of the staff to make things right. Again, I'm only telling you what was explained to me.
[snapback]10366[/snapback]
Just my two cents:
I think that the way the last problem was dealt with, (the way Cary did it) was very effective. As was stated in the chat, if the problem had been taken to the Church, it would have just festered and carried on.
Cary eliminated the problem in a DAY because he was upfront and to the point about it. He didn't go whispering behind anyone's back.
If you want to have a church thing, by all means... I just don't think it's wise to have if that's all it's going to be used for -- A gossip and complain forum.
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Old 09-24-2004 #10
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My quick 2 cents. I think since there is already a "movement" for the Church, it would seem arbitrary to suddenly cancel it. I think the Church should go on as planned, unless those designated as Clergy are indifferent. At the same time, the "secret" part of the Church is highly ill advised. I can see how staff needs an undisclosed forum for discussion out of public site - you never know what dirty laundry needs to be aired. The Church, on the other hand, has the huge possibility to turn into a place for anyone to whine and complain, bitch and moan, and generally malign members of the staff without any authority to take any direct, effective or appropriate action. Making complaints about others to those without the power or authority to take such action is just plain gossip.
Problems with the staff, take it up with Satan. Problems with Satan (I can't imagine that, but let's take this to logical conclusion) take it to the board. Not sure what to do, PM those who have like minded perspectives. Don't have the stomach to "make a go" of it, well just take it and shut up or go somewhere's else. Was it comfortable and "fun" to go head to head with Phoenix? No. Was I going to just "put up with it"? Hell no. Did I get hassled by the staff or Satan? Quite the opposite. I found the staff to be very helpful and supportive. Satan was nothing but objective, fair and honest. That's what makes this place so unique and wonderful.
Try going to anomalies.net and locking horns with Rick or Darby - you'll get your ass handed to you, with plenty of cheering from the sidelines to see you bleed. Olav, if you're reading this, you need to seriously reconsider this "Rick Donaldson" as anything more than a member, if that - PM me if you'd like details, but in a phrase, "what an asshole." I'd lock horns with him if it meant all that much to me, but frankly, I'd rather spend most of my time here. Anomalies just keeps going downhill IMO. (See what can happen gang. I'm not trying to berate anomanlies, but it's a great example of what we don't want to do, and is the only reason I went off on this tangent here.)
So do what you want with the Church. I think it's too late to "kill" it, but it's still way early to allow some secret hidden place to develop. You're just begging for an environment that could blow this whole thing out of the water with the secrecy aspect of it. Do what you want. Everybody try and remember this is a great place. Having "locked on" and dug in opinions about having it "YOUR WAY" are sure signs of trouble brewing. If things start to go wrong, just remember my tendancy is to be the "courir de merde" around here. I ain't about to stop. I love this place too much to remain silent when something or someone is in the process of screwing it up. I ain't always right, but I'm seldom quite.
Okay, mabe it was 5 cents, but I had to finish my thoughts.
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Old 09-24-2004 #11
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As absolute master and dominating force of the Church, or Clergy, or whatever it is (Phoenix never told me what it was exactly) I have deemed to my own satisfaction, which is all that matters, that there is no secrecy or confidentiality involved in it, or at least none that I have practiced; that it was manifestly not meant by me or anyone I have ordained, and I am the only one with authority to ordain squat, to be a place for bitching about staff, who can for all I care keep all of the secrets they want, although it bothers me that they feel called upon to keep stuff from us for their own benefit.
If anyone wants to know any secrets, please just ask, and make the staff squirm to come up with excuses for keeping them: but let me guess, it will be because it's necessary for our own good, something along those lines.
What, Jedi, you worried that people are going to huddle and badmouth the board? Relax: I know, I know, this kind of thing needles someone in your position. But we appreciate everything you all do, we love you, we want you to keep your chin up and watch out for the good of the board.
As far as I am concerned, anybody can read anything I post for any purpose, and I want nothing to do with posting in a secret thread. And it annoys me that I cannot post in some of the threads that I can read. What really is the point of that? Administrators and Moderators or whatever you want to title yourself: what's the big deal? I don't know, it just seems like you're all missing the point, which is to gain strength from open, free discussion of pressing topics.
Oh well.
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Old 09-24-2004 #12
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Done, per Paul's recommendation
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Old 09-24-2004 #13
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I await for Paul's take on this, However, Here is my understanding.
The church would be Pan-Religious, supporting a direction for all faiths regardless of genesis.
It would be responsible for a 'spiritual' direction , a source of humor, keep things moving. (Ahh yes, Holy Prune Juice)
Mods and admins would be able to read, But not able to post. ( I think that this was one of the directions that it would have taken had picklehead still been here) The reason being, we don't want a conflict by admins and or mods thinking that the church was a den/source of faultfinding, backbiting or mutinous base. (Arrrrrrr )
The theory being, a clergy would be directing its energies towards the upliftment of the forum whereas the admins and mods were for the mechanics and running of the forum. Keeping the direction apart insures two separate ideologies and modes of operating.
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Old 09-24-2004 #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Satan@Sep 24 2004, 09:27 AM
Done, per Paul's recommendation
[snapback]10400[/snapback]
Good and thank you LOL. But what was done exactly? Mods and Admins can now see the Church? Can they post? Who mods the Church now, still the clergy?
Just wondering . . .
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Old 09-24-2004 #15
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I plan on bringing up the issue with the Round Table being 'view-only' with the staff. I think that, with Phoenix's absence, there are a lot of little administrative things that I think should be reviewed. I actually think that anyone who can currently view the Round Table should be able to post there. Should every member? My gut feeling is no. There will be a place for staff to discuss things privately, but I don't see a need for more than one or two such forums.
I really am not an unfair person. If you don't want the staff to be able to post in the Church, that's fine. Again, I don't really see the need for it, but I think it's an acceptable comprimise. I will post my thoughts on other issues in the Round Table later today or early tomorrow. Thanks for discussing this with me.
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Old 09-24-2004 #16
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Jedi,
How about we let Elders and Legacy post in there? All the clergy are Legacy and Elders. Sound fair all?
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Old 09-24-2004 #17
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Double reply, sorry.
There are four areas which I do not think should be open.
1) The Dungeon - about trouble members. Reason: IP addresses and personal information discussed...privacy issue.
2) Royal Chamber - Area for only admins. Reason: Sensitive information in the way of usernames and passwords and regarding other board issues.
3) A hidden chamber - where I post all of my test stuff. Reason: No value added by granting access, it is a sandbox for my tests.
4) The Trash Can - where we put posts that are removed from the board. Reason: they are removed from the board for a reason.
I also think that we should retain the right to drop it to a read only access if nonsense spamming becomes an issue.
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Old 09-24-2004 #18
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I agree with both posts. Open up the RT to those who can already read it. Leave the forums you mentioned hidden.
I was going to bring this up in the RT, but what the heck, since we're discussing these types of things here. I would like to change the 'theme' of the staff from Royalty to something a little more administrative and a little less elite. Like simply "Admins" and "Mods". Actually, Knights are still cool, but having a "Royal" chambers, even if it is just a joke, just comes off as elitist to me. If no one else cares I'll drop the issue, but it's always bugged me.
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Old 09-24-2004 #19
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Done.
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Old 09-24-2004 #20
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Excellent. I very much think that we've taken some large strides in the right direction here today.
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Old 09-24-2004 #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Satan@Sep 24 2004, 06:28 PM
Double reply, sorry.
There are four areas which I do not think should be open.
1) The Dungeon - about trouble members. Reason: IP addresses and personal information discussed...privacy issue.
2) Royal Chamber - Area for only admins. Reason: Sensitive information in the way of usernames and passwords and regarding other board issues.
3) A hidden chamber - where I post all of my test stuff. Reason: No value added by granting access, it is a sandbox for my tests.
4) The Trash Can - where we put posts that are removed from the board. Reason: they are removed from the board for a reason.
I also think that we should retain the right to drop it to a read only access if nonsense spamming becomes an issue.
[snapback]10411[/snapback]
Three and Four, I agree; One and Two, I agree only if there is no other way to hide the actually sensitive material (passwords, etc.).
Again, the position of the general membership is probably that all members should be able to read all material posted. If certain members want to conceal particular information, they should confine themselves to PM or email, and not impose obnoxious limits on a public message board.
On the other hand, the position of the general membership is probably that even Moderators and Administrators may find benefit in reading the posts of interested members in threads previously held exclusive to a certain privileged group. I use the term "privileged" in its strictest sense, to refer to a specific privilege.
In my own opinion, the recent crises we have experienced might have been avoided or mitigated if the circle of participants in its discussion had been widened to include many other members, whose counsel is not to be underestimated. It may be that some of the injured parties in the last shootout had requested anonymity or that the matter not be discussed openly; if so, I stand corrected, chastised, and silenced. However, I still think that others have the right to know the story, even if the names were changed to shield the innocent.
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Old 09-24-2004 #22
John
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It may be that some of the injured parties in the last shootout had requested anonymity or that the matter not be discussed openly; if so, I stand corrected, chastised, and silenced. However, I still think that others have the right to know the story, even if the names were changed to shield the innocent.
Paul,
The members wish to not have to re-live the story by it being told and re-told and re-told. I respect their wishes. The only way it will be discussed, names changed or in any form, will be when all the parties involved all agree to have the story told. Until they agree, this is a moot point and no further discussion of the details should be revealed without their consent.
Curiosity is the driver for all of the "What happened? Be vague...." posts not the interest of the people involved. The people involved have either dealt with the issue on their own terms or wish to not have to rehash it out for the world to view. Please respect their actions and wishes Paul.
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Three and Four, I agree; One and Two, I agree only if there is no other way to hide the actually sensitive material (passwords, etc.).
There are other ways to hide the info but the way we do it now provides the most efficient and easiest means of disseminating the information to the Admins and Mods.
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Old 09-24-2004 #23
Paul J. Lyon
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Originally posted by Satan@Sep 24 2004, 07:56 PM
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It may be that some of the injured parties in the last shootout had requested anonymity or that the matter not be discussed openly; if so, I stand corrected, chastised, and silenced. However, I still think that others have the right to know the story, even if the names were changed to shield the innocent.
Paul,
The members wish to not have to re-live the story by it being told and re-told and re-told. I respect their wishes. The only way it will be discussed, names changed or in any form, will be when all the parties involved all agree to have the story told. Until they agree, this is a moot point and no further discussion of the details should be revealed without their consent.
Curiosity is the driver for all of the "What happened? Be vague...." posts not the interest of the people involved. The people involved have either dealt with the issue on their own terms or wish to not have to rehash it out for the world to view. Please respect their actions and wishes Paul.
[snapback]10417[/snapback]
To be retold, it must have been told to begin with; to be rehashed, it must first have been hashed.
I am making observations on recent events. Am I being told to stop discussing the topic?
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Old 09-24-2004 #24
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They have told and hashed it out to me and and other members of the board of their choosing. I am asking you to let dead dogs lie and let's move on to more pressing issues.
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Old 09-26-2004 #25
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In my own opinion, the recent crises we have experienced might have been avoided or mitigated if the circle of participants in its discussion had been widened to include many other members, whose counsel is not to be underestimated. It may be that some of the injured parties in the last shootout had requested anonymity or that the matter not be discussed openly; if so, I stand corrected, chastised, and silenced. However, I still think that others have the right to know the story, even if the names were changed to shield the innocent.
I strongly agree with this. A few weeks ago posts were made in the Church by a new member using the same IP address as me containing offensive comments towards Christians and other religions. As far as I know the matter was immediately taken up in the dungeon. However, as a normal member I didn't have access to that forum and recieved no mention of the situation at all from any of the mods or admins involved. Fortunately around that time I was made a part of the Clergy, which gave me the ability to see the Dungeon and Royal Castle forums, and was pointed in the right direction by Snow. It still wasn't until I PM'd one of the mods involved that I recieved any information about what was going on.
Not trying to stir up trouble but when members of the board are being discussed in a forum they should be able to see and post there themselves, or in the very least be notified about it.
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