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virtualgirl post Sep 17 2004, 08:37 PM
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Since I heard about JT, I have been researching everyone involved. So far, I haven't found anything that would prove the story a hoax. In fact, the attorney that started the corporation for the JT foundations father in law is the commander of the Florida National Guard. I think they would have too much to lose to produce a hoax. The book is not copyrighted so that is a dead end. Still working on it, not to be cruel in anyway. I am just searching for the truth. I suppose we should all be prepared in any event. I also have teenagers to think about. Look at it like this, if nothing happens, nothing is lost. You can always use your supplies. Anyway, please don't think bad of me for the research. I am just compelled to do it.
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TheOrangeMan post Sep 17 2004, 10:09 PM
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where did you get in information concerning the attoney's father? I think it's great someone looked into it.
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Snow Fire Watches post Sep 18 2004, 01:14 AM
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QUOTE(virtualgirl @ Sep 17 2004, 08:37 PM)
Since I heard about JT, I have been researching everyone involved. So far, I haven't found anything that would prove the story a hoax. In fact, the attorney that started the corporation for the JT foundations father in law is the commander of the Florida National Guard. I think they would have too much to lose to produce a hoax. The book is not copyrighted so that is a dead end. Still working on it, not to be cruel in anyway. I am just searching for the truth. I suppose we should all be prepared in any event. I also have teenagers to think about. Look at it like this, if nothing happens, nothing is lost. You can always use your supplies. Anyway, please don't think bad of me for the research. I am just compelled to do it.
*
First of all, Welcome. >
<
Think bad of you for research? I'd have to check around but I'm PRETTY SURE research is respected here! Even those of us who tend toward believing (ok ok I admit it - I believe) really just want the truth. Many of us here have read all the debunks and still don't think JT has been proved a hoax, so you are definately not alone. Only time will tell. Hoax or not - things are going his way.
Maybe I am behind in reading up, or perhaps you have come up with something new. Would you care to share your research about the father of the attorney for the foundation?
From the edge or maybe a little beyond . . .
Snow Fire Watches
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Phoenix post Sep 18 2004, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE(virtualgirl @ Sep 17 2004, 08:37 PM)
Since I heard about JT, I have been researching everyone involved. So far, I haven't found anything that would prove the story a hoax. In fact, the attorney that started the corporation for the JT foundations father in law is the commander of the Florida National Guard. I think they would have too much to lose to produce a hoax. The book is not copyrighted so that is a dead end. Still working on it, not to be cruel in anyway. I am just searching for the truth. I suppose we should all be prepared in any event. I also have teenagers to think about. Look at it like this, if nothing happens, nothing is lost. You can always use your supplies. Anyway, please don't think bad of me for the research. I am just compelled to do it.
*
Welcome to the time travel forum virtual girl.
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Paul J. Lyon post Sep 20 2004, 11:34 AM
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Look for the middle ground; truth is usually there in a puddle. Don't fall for the fallacy that something like Titor must be completely true or completely a hoax. He deals in "fake truth," or disinformation. If "he" came to 2000 in a time machine, he didn't post a picture of it, he posted a picture of a fake time machine. To find the truth, find the character, find his motive.
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virtualgirl post Sep 20 2004, 09:19 PM
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First of all, thank you all for welcoming me here!!!! How did I get my information....well, I have access to research alot of records....When I ran the lawyers license (this was legal by the way) I checked for anyone at the same address. There was him, his wife and two other people with the same name as the wife's maiden name. Then I ran a check on the father (Emmett R. Titshaw) and found the Air National Guard stuff. Also, I looked up the copyright in D.C. and there was no copyright for that book title. I also pulled up the bar association and Haber is in good standing. I also ran a search on all the property he owned to look for connections. And then I sent an email to Oliver Williams form JT.com to see how he figures into this. As of today, he has not responded. I did however find an Oliver Williams (JT editor) that is incarcerated in the Florida State Prison. And when I ran the partial VIN on the insurance paper that's on the web, one of the vehicles came up as a 1987 Chevy truck that belongs to the Florida State Prison. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. What do you guys think. Too bad I'm in Texas. I would have all >< kinds of dirt.
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Paul J. Lyon post Sep 21 2004, 10:44 AM
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QUOTE(virtualgirl @ Sep 21 2004, 03:19 AM)
First of all, thank you all for welcoming me here!!!! How did I get my information....well, I have access to research alot of records....When I ran the lawyers license (this was legal by the way) I checked for anyone at the same address. There was him, his wife and two other people with the same name as the wife's maiden name. Then I ran a check on the father (Emmett R. Titshaw) and found the Air National Guard stuff. Also, I looked up the copyright in D.C. and there was no copyright for that book title. I also pulled up the bar association and Haber is in good standing. I also ran a search on all the property he owned to look for connections. And then I sent an email to Oliver Williams form JT.com to see how he figures into this. As of today, he has not responded. I did however find an Oliver Williams (JT editor) that is incarcerated in the Florida State Prison. And when I ran the partial VIN on the insurance paper that's on the web, one of the vehicles came up as a 1987 Chevy truck that belongs to the Florida State Prison. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. What do you guys think. Too bad I'm in Texas. I would have all >< kinds of dirt.
*
Is that the same truck?
This research is magnificent.
My first thought is that you have possibly named the cohorts of the Titor Committee that I suspect wrote the posts. I looked up Haber once, and even posted all of his public domain bar information, but it was deleted by the Administrator. He is listed as an "entertainment" lawyer in Celebration, Fla. (the Disney fake town).
I suspect that the militia stuff and Constitutionalist stuff comes from Titshaw. Also, if you put the first syllable of his and the last syllable of Haber's name together, you get "Titer."
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CaryP post Sep 21 2004, 10:51 AM
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No kidding Paul. Great tie in of Titshaw's and Haber's names. Virtualgirl, excellent work and welcome to the plantation. I'm glad you're not in Louisiana.
Cary
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Paul J. Lyon post Sep 21 2004, 01:14 PM
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Also, I believe that prison inmates are not allowed to use the internet, which means that Williams had to have relied heavily on the family there to work on any of this stuff, and had a lot of time on his hands to cook up apocalyptic scenarios.
There was something about Titor's "it's always a bad day when you can't get any good water" type writing style that did ring an old bell with me. I spent a lot of time with prisoners in the late 1980s, doing appeals, and learned their language. There's a strong flavor of it in Titor's work.
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StarLord post Sep 21 2004, 01:44 PM
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One would have LOTS of time writing from that spot, lots of time with no distractions, 'cept where the soap went, plenty of time to make notes and back track on those notes for errors.
I wonder, is that area full of semi spiritual anti govermental Survivalist?
Not the prison of course.
Great Call virtual girl.
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Paul J. Lyon post Sep 21 2004, 01:48 PM
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There's also that "me against the world" thing, the paramilitary life of an inmate, and being forced to fall back on fundamental "values." Almost everything I can come up with about this evokes both Titor and the voice of a prison inmate to me.
It surprises me that I hadn't noticed this before. Self-reliance, truck farming, spare religion, simple food, and the willingness to accept the mass destruction of the "outside world" and its people. Everything fits.
This post has been edited by Paul J. Lyon: Sep 21 2004, 01:51 PM
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StarLord post Sep 21 2004, 02:07 PM
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Great thinking All you guys!! You found the thing we were NOT looking for or at.
I can see it now, FLASH Titor an Inmate!, Traped in time, doing time, got alota time, gotta dime?
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Snow Fire Watches post Sep 21 2004, 02:57 PM
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OK you guys are moving a little fast for me.
Oliver Williams, who did the johntitor.com site and the Coast to Coast radio interview may or may not be a prison inmate. Oliver Williams of johntitor.com definately has computer access and the ability to spend 4 midnight hours on the phone and radio just in early August, 2004. John Titor had computer access and the ability to answer posts immediately and access to a fax machine. Paint me a clearer picture of what you are suggesting happened here.
I'm beside myself with the excitement of the new evidence and incredibly impressed that one of our members has found some new puzzle pieces that have not been on the table before. I can't say how thrilled I am that we have someone with the desire and the ability and the tools to do these kinds of searches on our team! Virtualgirl you have done an awesome job bringing something new to the table.
But come on you guys - you just load it all up on the hoax-wagon and start tromping through town like you have solved the big mystery. Have you? Please prove it.
From the edge or maybe a little beyond . . .
SFW
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Cornelia post Sep 21 2004, 03:40 PM
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Hey Snow, men love to solve problems quickly! That's why they jump on the hoax wagon so fast! :lol:
Anyway, we must:
-be sure he is the same Oliver Williams
-be sure that Oliver Williams was in prison on November 2000
Also, from what I understood she was doing her lawyer training while reasearching. We have respected lawyers here: would the Pope graciously conduct the same research? I can't believe a student has access to resources the Pope don't!
More: can an inmate have access to the insurance paper of the prison truck? Maybe in Italy it could happen :lol: but in USA I don't think so. I don't know if in your country the inmates can get those special projects in which they work for the prison office or something like that. If it's possible, then he could have had access to papers, the Internet and a fax.
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virtualgirl post Sep 21 2004, 07:15 PM
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Guys,
Gracias'!! I do my best.....Now don't get me wrong about Oliver Williams. It still could not be the editor. The info just fits. All the stuff on Haber, I'm sure of. Then again, it could just be alot of coincidences. I'll keep researching. The only reason I'm sure on the lawyer is because I have the drivers license on the whole family as well as all their property records. One thing I need to check on is the corporation papers. They say that Haber is the acting agent but doesn't say who he represents. Also, I thought corporations had to at least have 2 members but he is the only one on them. Maybe that's only on L.L.C. And don't worry Cary. I'm not dangerous. I'm really very loveable when you get to know me. :flirt: I just want to know the truth. Part of me wants to believe, and he almost had me. I mean we still have to consider that Hawkings changed his findings after the posts so I don't know. I emailed Williams and asked him how he fits in. I told him if it's him, to fess up and I'll back off but if there is no reply and I find out that it is him, I'm going to blow it wide open. He still hasn't replied and it's been about a week. I would still prepare like you have been in the event that I'm wrong. It never hurts.
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> JT Foundation/Oliver Williams Research, Moved from "Are you Afraid"
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virtualgirl post Sep 17 2004, 08:37 PM
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Since I heard about JT, I have been researching everyone involved. So far, I haven't found anything that would prove the story a hoax. In fact, the attorney that started the corporation for the JT foundations father in law is the commander of the Florida National Guard. I think they would have too much to lose to produce a hoax. The book is not copyrighted so that is a dead end. Still working on it, not to be cruel in anyway. I am just searching for the truth. I suppose we should all be prepared in any event. I also have teenagers to think about. Look at it like this, if nothing happens, nothing is lost. You can always use your supplies. Anyway, please don't think bad of me for the research. I am just compelled to do it.
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TheOrangeMan post Sep 17 2004, 10:09 PM
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where did you get in information concerning the attoney's father? I think it's great someone looked into it.
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Snow Fire Watches post Sep 18 2004, 01:14 AM
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QUOTE(virtualgirl @ Sep 17 2004, 08:37 PM)
Since I heard about JT, I have been researching everyone involved. So far, I haven't found anything that would prove the story a hoax. In fact, the attorney that started the corporation for the JT foundations father in law is the commander of the Florida National Guard. I think they would have too much to lose to produce a hoax. The book is not copyrighted so that is a dead end. Still working on it, not to be cruel in anyway. I am just searching for the truth. I suppose we should all be prepared in any event. I also have teenagers to think about. Look at it like this, if nothing happens, nothing is lost. You can always use your supplies. Anyway, please don't think bad of me for the research. I am just compelled to do it.
*
First of all, Welcome. >
<Think bad of you for research? I'd have to check around but I'm PRETTY SURE research is respected here!
Even those of us who tend toward believing (ok ok I admit it - I believe) really just want the truth. Many of us here have read all the debunks and still don't think JT has been proved a hoax, so you are definately not alone. Only time will tell. Hoax or not - things are going his way.Maybe I am behind in reading up, or perhaps you have come up with something new. Would you care to share your research about the father of the attorney for the foundation?
From the edge or maybe a little beyond . . .
Snow Fire Watches
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Phoenix post Sep 18 2004, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE(virtualgirl @ Sep 17 2004, 08:37 PM)
Since I heard about JT, I have been researching everyone involved. So far, I haven't found anything that would prove the story a hoax. In fact, the attorney that started the corporation for the JT foundations father in law is the commander of the Florida National Guard. I think they would have too much to lose to produce a hoax. The book is not copyrighted so that is a dead end. Still working on it, not to be cruel in anyway. I am just searching for the truth. I suppose we should all be prepared in any event. I also have teenagers to think about. Look at it like this, if nothing happens, nothing is lost. You can always use your supplies. Anyway, please don't think bad of me for the research. I am just compelled to do it.
*
Welcome to the time travel forum virtual girl.
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Paul J. Lyon post Sep 20 2004, 11:34 AM
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Look for the middle ground; truth is usually there in a puddle. Don't fall for the fallacy that something like Titor must be completely true or completely a hoax. He deals in "fake truth," or disinformation. If "he" came to 2000 in a time machine, he didn't post a picture of it, he posted a picture of a fake time machine. To find the truth, find the character, find his motive.
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virtualgirl post Sep 20 2004, 09:19 PM
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First of all, thank you all for welcoming me here!!!!
How did I get my information....well, I have access to research alot of records....When I ran the lawyers license (this was legal by the way) I checked for anyone at the same address. There was him, his wife and two other people with the same name as the wife's maiden name. Then I ran a check on the father (Emmett R. Titshaw) and found the Air National Guard stuff. Also, I looked up the copyright in D.C. and there was no copyright for that book title. I also pulled up the bar association and Haber is in good standing. I also ran a search on all the property he owned to look for connections. And then I sent an email to Oliver Williams form JT.com to see how he figures into this. As of today, he has not responded. I did however find an Oliver Williams (JT editor) that is incarcerated in the Florida State Prison. And when I ran the partial VIN on the insurance paper that's on the web, one of the vehicles came up as a 1987 Chevy truck that belongs to the Florida State Prison. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. What do you guys think. Too bad I'm in Texas. I would have all >< kinds of dirt.User is offlineProfile CardPM Go to the top of the page
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Paul J. Lyon post Sep 21 2004, 10:44 AM
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QUOTE(virtualgirl @ Sep 21 2004, 03:19 AM)
First of all, thank you all for welcoming me here!!!!
How did I get my information....well, I have access to research alot of records....When I ran the lawyers license (this was legal by the way) I checked for anyone at the same address. There was him, his wife and two other people with the same name as the wife's maiden name. Then I ran a check on the father (Emmett R. Titshaw) and found the Air National Guard stuff. Also, I looked up the copyright in D.C. and there was no copyright for that book title. I also pulled up the bar association and Haber is in good standing. I also ran a search on all the property he owned to look for connections. And then I sent an email to Oliver Williams form JT.com to see how he figures into this. As of today, he has not responded. I did however find an Oliver Williams (JT editor) that is incarcerated in the Florida State Prison. And when I ran the partial VIN on the insurance paper that's on the web, one of the vehicles came up as a 1987 Chevy truck that belongs to the Florida State Prison. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. What do you guys think. Too bad I'm in Texas. I would have all >< kinds of dirt.*
Is that the same truck?
This research is magnificent.
My first thought is that you have possibly named the cohorts of the Titor Committee that I suspect wrote the posts. I looked up Haber once, and even posted all of his public domain bar information, but it was deleted by the Administrator. He is listed as an "entertainment" lawyer in Celebration, Fla. (the Disney fake town).
I suspect that the militia stuff and Constitutionalist stuff comes from Titshaw. Also, if you put the first syllable of his and the last syllable of Haber's name together, you get "Titer."
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CaryP post Sep 21 2004, 10:51 AM
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No kidding Paul. Great tie in of Titshaw's and Haber's names. Virtualgirl, excellent work and welcome to the plantation. I'm glad you're not in Louisiana.
Cary
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Paul J. Lyon post Sep 21 2004, 01:14 PM
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Also, I believe that prison inmates are not allowed to use the internet, which means that Williams had to have relied heavily on the family there to work on any of this stuff, and had a lot of time on his hands to cook up apocalyptic scenarios.
There was something about Titor's "it's always a bad day when you can't get any good water" type writing style that did ring an old bell with me. I spent a lot of time with prisoners in the late 1980s, doing appeals, and learned their language. There's a strong flavor of it in Titor's work.
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StarLord post Sep 21 2004, 01:44 PM
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One would have LOTS of time writing from that spot, lots of time with no distractions, 'cept where the soap went, plenty of time to make notes and back track on those notes for errors.
I wonder, is that area full of semi spiritual anti govermental Survivalist?
Not the prison of course.
Great Call virtual girl.
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Paul J. Lyon post Sep 21 2004, 01:48 PM
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There's also that "me against the world" thing, the paramilitary life of an inmate, and being forced to fall back on fundamental "values." Almost everything I can come up with about this evokes both Titor and the voice of a prison inmate to me.
It surprises me that I hadn't noticed this before. Self-reliance, truck farming, spare religion, simple food, and the willingness to accept the mass destruction of the "outside world" and its people. Everything fits.
This post has been edited by Paul J. Lyon: Sep 21 2004, 01:51 PM
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StarLord post Sep 21 2004, 02:07 PM
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Great thinking All you guys!! You found the thing we were NOT looking for or at.
I can see it now, FLASH Titor an Inmate!, Traped in time, doing time, got alota time, gotta dime?
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Snow Fire Watches post Sep 21 2004, 02:57 PM
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OK you guys are moving a little fast for me.
Oliver Williams, who did the johntitor.com site and the Coast to Coast radio interview may or may not be a prison inmate. Oliver Williams of johntitor.com definately has computer access and the ability to spend 4 midnight hours on the phone and radio just in early August, 2004. John Titor had computer access and the ability to answer posts immediately and access to a fax machine. Paint me a clearer picture of what you are suggesting happened here.
I'm beside myself with the excitement of the new evidence and incredibly impressed that one of our members has found some new puzzle pieces that have not been on the table before. I can't say how thrilled I am that we have someone with the desire and the ability and the tools to do these kinds of searches on our team! Virtualgirl you have done an awesome job bringing something new to the table.
But come on you guys - you just load it all up on the hoax-wagon and start tromping through town like you have solved the big mystery. Have you? Please prove it.
From the edge or maybe a little beyond . . .
SFW
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Cornelia post Sep 21 2004, 03:40 PM
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Hey Snow, men love to solve problems quickly! That's why they jump on the hoax wagon so fast! :lol:
Anyway, we must:
-be sure he is the same Oliver Williams
-be sure that Oliver Williams was in prison on November 2000
Also, from what I understood she was doing her lawyer training while reasearching. We have respected lawyers here: would the Pope graciously conduct the same research? I can't believe a student has access to resources the Pope don't!
More: can an inmate have access to the insurance paper of the prison truck? Maybe in Italy it could happen :lol: but in USA I don't think so. I don't know if in your country the inmates can get those special projects in which they work for the prison office or something like that. If it's possible, then he could have had access to papers, the Internet and a fax.
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virtualgirl post Sep 21 2004, 07:15 PM
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Member No.: 254
Guys,
Gracias'!! I do my best.....Now don't get me wrong about Oliver Williams. It still could not be the editor. The info just fits. All the stuff on Haber, I'm sure of. Then again, it could just be alot of coincidences. I'll keep researching. The only reason I'm sure on the lawyer is because I have the drivers license on the whole family as well as all their property records. One thing I need to check on is the corporation papers. They say that Haber is the acting agent but doesn't say who he represents. Also, I thought corporations had to at least have 2 members but he is the only one on them. Maybe that's only on L.L.C. And don't worry Cary. I'm not dangerous. I'm really very loveable when you get to know me. :flirt: I just want to know the truth. Part of me wants to believe, and he almost had me. I mean we still have to consider that Hawkings changed his findings after the posts so I don't know. I emailed Williams and asked him how he fits in. I told him if it's him, to fess up and I'll back off but if there is no reply and I find out that it is him, I'm going to blow it wide open. He still hasn't replied and it's been about a week. I would still prepare like you have been in the event that I'm wrong. It never hurts.
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