Chronovisor [TimeTravelForum.net] "So and the Two"

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pauli post Nov 4 2004, 03:23 AM
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Hi guys, I was over on Anomalies and I saw this posting which sort of amused me: LevyMultimedia.com is for sale | HugeDomains . So, I thought I would post it here.

The person who posted it over there asked about it, "What does the poem mean?" Darby responded back that it was probably a "cutie-pie" reference to their Linguistic analysis of his postings. Either way, I thought I might post it over here.

No matter the author, you must admit that someone out there has a wicked sense of humor.
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tchetcha post Nov 4 2004, 04:20 AM
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Why do people think immediately is John Titor?
I know my english is not very good, but I cant read that poem! Can you? looks like an anagram or something like that...
But, except if Pamela says that is the song Titor made her memorise, I really don't think we should waste time trying to solve the meaning of that...

This post has been edited by tchetcha: Nov 4 2004, 04:21 AM
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August post Nov 4 2004, 05:52 AM
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pauli,

Thanks for the link. Questions I have are:

1. I have never seen this website before. Why are they reporting "The Return"?

2. Why are they so cloudy about the IP evidence? I am so sick of a bit of information. This makes me think the internet is the true enemy to honest information.

3. Are these folks scanning the IP address of every strange email waiting for the hoaxer to give up?

Those asked, the riddle falls in line with my earlier posts that the person behind the Titor event is an absolute genius. Period.

QUOTE
So And The Two, The And, Then Now, Whenever Then Therefore, The Furthermore, Some Those, Then Oh So And Surely Tell, Thus Then Doom After; They Thus Therefore Should Ask, And Therefore The And, What For, And Now Of?
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Paul J. Lyon post Nov 4 2004, 10:56 AM
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Gertrude Stein on PCP.
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lev post Nov 4 2004, 11:47 AM
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QUOTE(Paul J. Lyon @ Nov 4 2004, 04:56 PM)
Gertrude Stein on PCP.
*



::.. Now thats funny! ..::
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pauli post Nov 4 2004, 01:00 PM
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QUOTE
pauli,

Thanks for the link. Questions I have are:

1. I have never seen this website before. Why are they reporting "The Return"?

2. Why are they so cloudy about the IP evidence? I am so sick of a bit of information. This makes me think the internet is the true enemy to honest information.

3. Are these folks scanning the IP address of every strange email waiting for the hoaxer to give up?

Those asked, the riddle falls in line with my earlier posts that the person behind the Titor event is an absolute genius. Period.

Hi August,

All of your questions are good ones and worthy of being answered. Is this the person who started the whole "hoax?" Maybe, maybe not. To my mind it doesn't matter. The reason why I said the humor was "wicked" is because it is funny on the one hand, but really a back-handed slap on the other toward those who obsess so much over the Titor thing that they do an analysis on the wording of the posts.

I realize I run the risk of being a little mocking myself, being that I found it kind of funny, but it does kind of amaze me how much energy has been placed into discovering the true identity of this Titor chap. We will probably never know who he/they are. But, I also realize there are good people on the hoax-busting side that have worthy goals in doing so. I just kind of shrug my shoulders and shake my head over how passionate people can become over this story. It somehow seems out of proportion to the reality; either he is "real" or he is not. If he is, then his words will come to pass - with a measure of variation according to the percentage of divergence. If he is not, it won't happen and we can just view this as an interesting hobby we spent time trying to figure out.
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Timmy G post Nov 4 2004, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE
So And The Two, The And, Then Now, Whenever Then Therefore, The Furthermore, Some Those, Then Oh So And Surely Tell, Thus Then Doom After; They Thus Therefore Should Ask, And Therefore The And, What For, And Now Of?

It seems to me there is somewhat of a pattern in that ?poem? statement. It is rather plainly cryptic. And in my opinion, it clearly says something;

the first couple of lines can easily be rearranged to say
and so the two, the then and now... And goes on to say
,,,,oh, and so surely tell, thus then doom after. then
..thus they therefore should ask. and
...and what of the for now?.

Gertrude Stein on PCP... :d'oh: :lol:

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pauli post Nov 4 2004, 05:27 PM
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:huh: I must be missing something here... At the risk of sounding uninformed, who is Gertrude Stein??

Sorry, just want to be in on the joke with the rest of you.
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StarLord post Nov 4 2004, 05:59 PM
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Thats just imazing Paul, what awesome insight. My guess would have been Dr. Gonzo during DT's
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Darkwolf post Nov 4 2004, 06:05 PM
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Sounds like a kintergarten scrabble game to me. Just cuz I'm bored I tried to solve just the capatols for direct substitution and came up with nothing.
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StarLord post Nov 4 2004, 06:16 PM
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IMHO they are all different inroads to the center, which is as if someone broke down titors major hints in our Time. Words may need to be added .

This post has been edited by StarLord: Nov 4 2004, 06:18 PM
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Grayson post Nov 4 2004, 06:20 PM
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You could get an infinite number of monkey's to re-type it, on an infinite number of word-processors, the answer would then be forthcoming.
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KiraSjon post Nov 5 2004, 07:25 AM
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QUOTE(pauli @ Nov 4 2004, 06:27 PM)
:huh: I must be missing something here... At the risk of sounding uninformed, who is Gertrude Stein??

Sorry, just want to be in on the joke with the rest of you.
*




Gertrude Stein [adapted from an entry in the ©Encyclopedia Britannica] (b. Feb. 3, 1874, Allegheny, Pa., U.S.--d. July 27, 1946, Paris), avant-garde American writer, eccentric, and self-styled genius, whose Paris home was a salon for the leading artists and writers of the period between World Wars I and II.


Here ya go Pauli :D
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StarLord post Nov 5 2004, 10:02 AM
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Grayson, How possible do you think it would be if this "latest from the greatest" was actually the same thing we witnessed from perago/Malice. where the poor bugger just could't stay away and leave the perfect mystery alone. Ya just know that an ego like that can't stay away eh? If in fact this poem was from titor.
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Paul J. Lyon post Nov 5 2004, 10:37 AM
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They say that they are convinced that it is from Titor, but do not say why or how they are convinced of this.

It is apparently meant to bring Titor to the surface on the fourth anniversary of his visit, coincidentally the day of the election (though I am not sure whether Titor first posted on the 2nd of November-- it was in November, 2000).

The two are apparently the candidates; and we are directed to ask questions about the meaning of what has happened. But this is a worthless directive. It may be a prelude to some kind of grand advent of Titor this month, so get out your wits and get them ready.
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StarLord post Nov 5 2004, 01:10 PM
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Paul, which half do you recommend for this? As the standards for this will be most rigorous, being properly equipped is penultimate.

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Snow Fire Watches post Nov 5 2004, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE(Grayson @ Nov 4 2004, 06:20 PM)
You could get an infinite number of monkey's to re-type it, on an infinite number of word-processors, the answer would then be forthcoming.
*



Grayson, ;) It has been stated that a million monkies with a million typewriters would eventually type out the entire works of Shakespear. I submit, that thanks to the internet, we now know that isn't true!

QUOTE
So And The Two, The And, Then Now, Whenever Then Therefore, The Furthermore, Some Those, Then Oh So And Surely Tell, Thus Then Doom After; They Thus Therefore Should Ask, And Therefore The And, What For, And Now Of?


It seems to me there is somewhat of a pattern in that ?poem? statement. It is rather plainly cryptic. And in my opinion, it clearly says something;

the first couple of lines can easily be rearranged to say
and so the two, the then and now... And goes on to say
,,,,oh, and so surely tell, thus then doom after. then
..thus they therefore should ask. and
...and what of the for now?.

Very intersting Timmy G. You have inspired me to spend some time with this little puzzle.

SFW




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Darkwolf post Nov 5 2004, 03:24 PM
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Assuming he was real. I don't. It could be something that he instructed his family or somone to release in the event that something happened. IE the election either did or did not come out the way it did in his timeline.
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Paul J. Lyon post Nov 5 2004, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE(StarLord @ Nov 5 2004, 07:10 PM)
Paul, which half do you recommend for this? As the standards for this will be most rigorous, being properly equipped is penultimate.
*




Any two Bush voters will give you a complete set.
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StarLord post Nov 5 2004, 04:03 PM
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Yup, thats what I was thinking also. Sayyyyyyyyyy......... perhaps THIS is where they are keeping all that dark stuff of the universe.
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Alyxavior post Nov 5 2004, 04:07 PM
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considering your avatar...it's amazing you see anything...if i were twirling around that fast I'd be seeing stars...

*wink*
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StarLord post Nov 5 2004, 04:32 PM
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Oh that? Thats where we put the titor belivers. Lucky for me it's Yoda's, I'd hate to clean up in there. Still, he gets to keep all the change. It's the first of April near Dagoba.
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Snow Fire Watches post Nov 5 2004, 10:35 PM
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More purportedly from John Titor:

QUOTE

From LevyMultimedia.com

UFOlogy News.com
Time - Travel Today Received From John Titor
By John Titor - The Time Traveler
Nov 3, 2004, 22:22

We received this email from John Titor November 3, 2004 at 1:55am. We found it very unsettling that this came in as we clung to the election reports. In remembering Johns posts from 2001 he constantly warned us of the coming Civil War in this country. The words we heard time and again on November 2nd was how 'split' the country was at this time and how we needed to 'mend' the country. Personally, I don't see how that can happen, but after reading this email from John my fears are that all we can do now is prepare. We are posting his email just as it came to us.



Read up on the history of "Bell Labs" and the connection to the Biot-Savart Law of magnetism,
and how it's direct association is related to a fluctuating mass. - Remeber the snake swallowing its tail?
it's the logo of Lucent, the spin-off from Bell Labs, taken directly out of Hindu Mythology.

TIME LOOPS
A Talk with Paul Davies

NASA's Grace Gravity Mission Weighs In On Earth's Changing Climate

Long, but interesting article from Goro Adachi.


We can exemplify the life of "Steven Rado" to that which is taking place today within our own GVT race for global dominance and occupation of it's citizens yet to come.


Steven Rado was born in 1920 in Hungary. In 1939 as a high school graduate he enrolled at the University of Budapest as a physics major. In the same year, forced by Nazi Germany, Hungary declared war on the United States and drafted all jewish and half-jewish men into army-controlled labor camps.
Rado escaped from his camp and as an army deserter went underground, joining the Hungarian Liberation Movement.
Among other activities, he created a complete laboratory of document forging, helping hundreds of refugees and deserters to stay alive and fight.
Surviving World War II. 1945 in the short-lived a democratic Hungary he got married and worked as a journalist and play-write.
His political and philosophical essays appeared in leading newspapers and magazines. In 1948, backed by the Russian army, a Communist dictatorship took over the government. His refusal to join the party cost him his livelihood in every direction. In subsequent years he worked for the state in a home-labor group and again joined the underground liberation movement, this time against the Russian occupation.
In 1956, during the days of the victorious Hungarian Revolution, he wrote, designed, printed and organized the distribution of the 'Liberation Daily' in the form of thousands of silk-screened posters. The revolution won, the Russian occupational army surrendered, but because of the lack of Western intervention, on November 4th, 1956, thousands of Russian tanks flooded the country and killed the revolution and the revolutionaries.

On the 15th, at 4.15 A M., after 25 miles of walking and crawling through the border among the Russian tanks, he lead 35 freedom fighters and families to the free land of Austria. On December 11, 1956 Rado, his wife and his seven year old son arrived at Camp Kilmer, New Jersey. -- In 1962 they became a U.S. citizens.

From early studies of history, philosophy and political science, he became convinced that the gradual intellectual liberation of people is a direct function of the evolution of science and technology and thus depends on the level of understanding of physics. Hence, he spent most of the free moments of his adult life pursuing the accumulation of knowledge and the understanding of physics, and particularly its modern perplexities, postulated by relativity and quantum mechanics.

At the beginning of his life in the U.S., language barriers and financial burden obstructed him from gaining an official college education. Later on the financial ease of making a living in the U.S. rendered him sufficient free time for further self-education and research in physics.

The result is the book and CD-ROM published in 1995 : An alternate solution to the problems of modern physics, 'Aethro-Kinematics'

Also be sure to check out Steve Quayle's HQ Intel Report...

How about An atom-smasher on your desk?

Many people have contemplated why strange new planets are suddenly appearing into your Galaxy, this is a "misnomer" because your solar system itself is traveling through it's own Galaxy thus meeting up with these other celestial bodies, a result of the gravitational forces that pull them outside of their own outer region as they pass by.

Reports like the following gain very little attention because too many people are fixated on the "Now" of their own lifestyles than what will effect them latter on in their immediate future.

‘Super Earth’ found circling nearby star...
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior science writer
Updated: 2:38 p.m. ET Aug. 25, 2004

Remember The Star Wars Program!
(Chemtrails are a multiapplicationary Proposal)

SKYNET:SAC-NORAD




Quantum Computers Are A Quantum Leap Closer, Say Purdue Physicists

TECH SPACE Daily
by Chad Boutin
West Lafayette - Apr 30, 2004





Another comparison from Tim Ventura...

Dear All:

Not to spread the paranoia, but of all the outlandish predictions that John Titor made in 2001, there is one that just recently hit the news, and its the last one anybody would think could be true: CERN has plans to begin creating electron black-holes within the decade. The quote and URL from the CS Monitor are below:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Christian Science Monitor, May 2003)
Amazingly, scientists are becoming increasingly confident that they will be able to create black holes on demand, in quantity, using the new atom-smashers due to come online in the next five years. Some estimates suggest that the new Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Center for Nuclear Research (CERN -the acronym is in French) will be able to create an average of one black hole each second.

Here's Titor's November 2001 Quote:
I was just about to give up hope on anyone knowing who Tipler or Kerr was on this worldline. The basics for time travel start at CERN in about a year and end in 2034 with the first "time machine" built by GE. Too bad we can't post pictures or I'd show it to you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Titor also predicted HOW CERN would make these black-holes:

(Christian Science Monitor, May 2003)
LHC will bombard protons and antiprotons together with such a force that the collision will create temperatures and energy densities not seen since the first trillionth of a second after the Big Bang. This should be enough to pop off numerous tiny black holes, with masses of just a few hundred protons.

Here's Titor's December 2001 Quote:
Q: There are numerous experiments going on at CERN. In order for them to make a black hole they would have to travel faster than light.
Titor: "I'm pretty sure they have a number of experiments going on at the same time at CERN. The one I'm referring to involves very high energies using protons. From my historical perspective on my worldline, I do recall the issue was a point of contention about 18 months ago or so."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyhow, much to worry about here ..please forward if you know anybody interested.

Tim Ventura


© Copyright 2004 by LevyMultimedia.com


Getting interesting yet?

SFW

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Timescholar post Nov 6 2004, 09:54 AM
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QUOTE(Paul J. Lyon @ Nov 5 2004, 12:37 PM)
They say that they are convinced that it is from Titor, but do not say why or how they are convinced of this.

It is apparently meant to bring Titor to the surface on the fourth anniversary of his visit, coincidentally the day of the election (though I am not sure whether Titor first posted on the 2nd of November-- it was in November, 2000).

The two are apparently the candidates; and we are directed to ask questions about the meaning of what has happened. But this is a worthless directive. It may be a prelude to some kind of grand advent of Titor this month, so get out your wits and get them ready.
*



Didn't JT supposedly tell someone to remember the name of a song? Provided that, that person didn't tell anyone (which is probably doubtful after 4 years), that might be something to ask the supposed JT.
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Snow Fire Watches post Nov 6 2004, 11:00 AM
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QUOTE(Timescholar @ Nov 6 2004, 09:54 AM)

Didn't JT supposedly tell someone to remember the name of a song? Provided that, that person didn't tell anyone (which is probably doubtful after 4 years), that might be something to ask the supposed JT.
*



TS - Pamela alone holds the name of the song. Where is Pamela? I haven't seen her for quite awhile and PM's to her at Anomalies stand unretrieved. I do wish she would chime in.

Paul, got my wits out, but counting on you to keep it all in perspective! Why do you say, "The two are apparently the candidates; and we are directed to ask questions about the meaning of what has happened. But this is a worthless directive."?

I don't want to drag this topic to voting discrepancies, but there is much in alternative sources about voting shenanigans, stolen elections and protests, people considering leaving the country, etc. Isn't this where it starts? Isn't this where the formerly comfortable citizen begins to wonder what is happening to his country? It looks like as good a place to start as any . . .

Still awaiting my orders Paul . . . ;)

Has anyone, say Fringan and Kira and the other science minds here, looked at the science articles to see how it relates to the JT saga? Why did he (or whoever) take so much space to give is the bio of Steven Rado, and then basically give one line references to his science links?

SFW
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Darkwolf post Nov 6 2004, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE
Has anyone, say Fringan and Kira and the other science minds here, looked at the science articles to see how it relates to the JT saga? Why did he (or whoever) take so much space to give is the bio of Steven Rado, and then basically give one line references to his science links?


Mabey he is stephen Rado. He seems to fit the profile, but he had no other reason to even notice the guy. If this is a time released thing, I think things will become clear soon. Watch for trouble and another message at innaguration time.

It occurrs to me also that the song he had Pamela remember is probably not so much a code for communication, but the name of a song that would come out at a crucial time, and a trigger for her to release messages, information, ect. What songs have come out recently? I'd be looking for something that is pollitically relevent.
Phil

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Snow Fire Watches post Nov 7 2004, 01:15 PM
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From my "For What it's Worth" box, my first stab at So and the Two:

So and the Two

So The Two,
The Then And Now,
Therefore Then,
And Furthermore,
The Whenever.

Oh Those,
and then some,
So surelyTell.
After thus . . .
Then Doom.

Of the thus and therefore,
They should ask;
And What,
therefore,
For Now?

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Timmy G post Nov 8 2004, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE
From my "For What it's Worth" box, my first stab at So and the Two:

Snow Fire Watches, I like the way you think.
Very well done.

I have been giving the "So and the Two" some serious thought as well, and plan on submitting a couple of ideas also.

What is everyone's take on this... for all of you who have been following JT - and may have had some time to digest and think about this, does this look like something he'd post?


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Darkwolf post Nov 8 2004, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE
What is everyone's take on this... for all of you who have been following JT - and may have had some time to digest and think about this, does this look like something he'd post?




No, not at all. JT always spoke in plain english. This is a meaningless jumble of words. I've treid looking for a substitution code and a couple of other things, haven't found anything. Its either nonsense or something that only sombody who knows something we don't would understand.
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TheHeggy post Nov 8 2004, 01:45 AM
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I agree with Wolf here. I doubt Titor, if he existed, would leave behind a word puzzle for us to figure out. What's the point? If he had some kind of message to deliver to us at a certain time, he'd have trusted someone with the information and had them post it at the right time. What's this puzzle supposed to accomplish? I've never in any of the Titor stuff that I've seen, seen him use this kind of writing or make people "decode" what he was saying. He was always to the point and concise in what he said.

Maybe it means something to someone with a bit of "inside" information, but without that bit of knowledge this poem is pretty useless. I don't buy it.
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pauli post Nov 8 2004, 03:27 AM
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Heggy,

You make a good point. JT did not, on the whole, speak cryptically. That is why I considered it a joke.

If you look at the second posting that was allegedly received by the same site, there is a sentence that starts: "Read up on." After looking this one over, Darby came to the conclusion that the style of writing in JT's original posts and the style of writing for the recent email messages aren't the same. He thinks it is someone trying to "cash in" on the notoriety of Titor.

btw, love the tagline, "Jawas are tasty." :lol: Very cute. ;)
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Snow Fire Watches post Nov 9 2004, 02:23 PM
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So . . . Ho Hum . . . As was suspected the messages are not from John Titor.

Apparently a hoaxer has a message for us . . .

We have been there before.

Sigh . . .

Oh well - Will the real John Titor please stand up?

The story lives on anyway . . .

Snow


QUOTE

UFOlogy News.com Last Updated: Nov 9th, 2004 - 11:45:29

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Legend of John Titor Lives
By LevyMultimedia.Com
Nov 9, 2004, 11:04


It has been a long and exciting week since we first received an email claiming to be from the legendary time traveler, John Titor. Through confusion and many long days and nights, we came to realize that people wanted more to prove or disprove the legend of John Titor than to understand the messages that he tried so hard to convey to us.

Is John Titor a real person, a real time traveler?

Who knows! Science fiction or science fact, what we do know is that whoever it was that posted on the boards and spoke on Coast To Coast had an interesting story and told us some things about our future that should have rocked us to the core.

We keep watching and waiting for the predictions to come true! Why are we not doing what we can to change the dreaded picture he painted for us?

Members of the original P3 group have come forward and identified themselves as the posters of the messages that were presented to LevyMultimedia as being from John Titor.

What they did worked! Many people read the articles, thousands as a matter of fact, because they thought they were from John Titor. The messages they are giving us are of utmost importance and we will continue to post them.

Are they still being guided by John Titor? That would be up to you, the reader, to decide. If we told you "yes", you would try to debunk it, if we told you "no", then you wouldn't see a reason to read the articles.

We feel that the information should be reviewed, studied and followed by all who care about the future of our planet.

Dr. John P. Dering
Non-Lethal Defense Conference. Attendees. 1993
"Dering, John" wrote:

Interesting:

Such effects have been noted and reported before. It has been suggested that some of the supposed violations in the principle of equivalence. [i.e the work of Brush and others].

Are you familiar with the variations in an atomic clock that were reportedly seen the last time Sirius B transited Sirius A. Supposedly these effects went on before and after the transit with a total duration of something like 50 days from start to stop for the anomalous behavior.

Since I have no fears [well not many] about being laughed at I’ll use the “a-word”. [Astrology!].

The question is would “some” astronomical events induce effects arising from dynamic [magnetic-like] gravitational fields or even some manifestation of the torsion field from the “distant parallelism” Unified Field Theories. In turn could certain events induce gravitational effects that might even have an influence on biological systems? This would be one possible explanation for some of the ancient preoccupation with stellar and planetary cycles.

And this brings me to a theory I have been working on in relation to these planetary cycles!

Title: Anomolous Gravitational Effects and Their Relationship to "Planetary Alignment Cycles"

Abstract: For years now we have observed the starnge effects that planetary alignment cycles have upon our solar system that appears to propagate gravitational waves, which in turn cause a "ripple effect" which permeates throughout our entire galaxy. What causes these cycles are yet unknown, but many theories have been postulated that contribute to the equal & opposing forces which rin turn are a direct response from the vortex movement of our spiral galaxy that generates this enignmaic force.

We also have noticed similarities like these not only within our macro-universe, but these forces also seem apparent within the micro-universe which seems to be reproduced by some form of enignamic universal symetrey. The same forces seem to have an anomolous effect which vary in degrees along specific points along our geo-electromagnnetic grid, known by others as "Ley-Lines" which appear to create some peculiar lensing effect.

The lensing effect interacting with the pulse of the planetary resonance appears to alter these gravitational forces which bring about divergences within our weather and many other gelogical patterns such as sesmic and volcanic activities.

These planetary alignment cycles do not appear to be limited to that of our solar system alone, or by exterior movement. As we look deeper within each planetary body, again we observe the same universal symetry with respect to relationship it has within their internal mechanisims, thus aligning themselves within layers, or "Planetary Shells" that also appear to be cyclical.

By closer observation, I speculate that we will discover that these internal planetary alignments serve the purpose of havesting outside energy forces to ensure that the spinning core continues to replensh itself to prevent the collapse of theie geo-magnetic grid which is the unifying force responsible for containing it's own unique atmosphere from falling out into space which others believe what may have happened on Mars eons ago as a result of close contact from passing planetary bodies disrupting the balance of these forces. I further conclude that one of the methods of havesting outside energies to replenish the internal core enrgy requirement may be directly associated to these anomolous "Vortex Mystery Spots" which open up in order to draw their energy from their own atmospheric environmental chambers which are plentiful in positively charged current, and various other energies from solar activity.

There have been a series of reports pertaining to deep internal holes, such as the case of the famous "Mel's Hole" which I believe is a direct correlation to these vortex mystery spots scattered about our planet. During the cyclical event that our planet must recharge its internal machinery, it is suggested that during this preperation, a series of these vortex holes will re-open to prepare for this event, and as the internal shells deep within our planet begin to align, there will be an new ploarity determination once this internal movement comes to rest. After this ne internal polarity is determined, the earth will thus begin to "right itself" externally within it's current position in the solar system, this would thus explain the anicient legends as reported by the Hopi Indians, and many other cultural fortellings of re-occuring "Polar Shifts" that have been reported to occurr every so often, as approx. 36,000 yrs. which is yet to be determined.

Summary: In respect to Richard Hoglands Hyperdimensional Model, it may be that there is a distinguishable pattern to these events and their direct association as to how they effect the geo-electromagnetic grid patterns of planetary bodies. We have already observed great potential in artificial weather control devices such as in the case of the Alaska based HARRP device based upon Nicola Tesla's works, therefore it may be possible to learn from this hyperdimensional model to effect change in order to establish a balance of our earths grid.

If any conditions would give rise for a need to alter, or modify our planetary grid in order to maintain, or restore order due to un-intended local, or non-local environmental conditions that would disrupt this "Balance" we must discover a means to restore that balance if we wish to ensure preservation of our biological life lest we end up loosing our atmosphere!

Please be advised that this is a new theory and is subject to change as new data becomes available, also this theory is intended for information only, and is exclusive intellectial property of the author as signed, and witnessed by several collegues.

Sincerely,

---Gary Voss

TAP-TEN Research

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StarLord post Nov 9 2004, 04:41 PM
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I don't think there are enough seats on "Whats My Line" for all the real titors to stand up.
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Paul J. Lyon post Nov 9 2004, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE(StarLord @ Nov 9 2004, 10:41 PM)
I don't think there are enough seats on "Whats My Line" for all the real titors to stand up.
*



This is interesting, if you consider that "he" may be a "they." If the real Titor were to stand up, it may be everyone on stage.
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TheHeggy post Nov 9 2004, 05:54 PM
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I like this idea of Titor being multiple people playing a joke. It's a lot easier to come up with something like he did if you have a bunch of friends to bounce ideas around and get every detail of the story just right.
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sosuemetoo post Nov 10 2004, 07:47 AM
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I wanted to add to the mix that Gary Voss has been posting on anomolies. His nick is "gotlightmakematter."


Post by Pamela:
QUOTE
Gary,

I was contacted and told that these people have proof that you hoaxed this article pretending to be John Titor.


Is it true?

Because if it is ...How then can you call yourself my friend?

Once again, I feel bad for Pamela. It seems that people take advantage of her to get a peice of "titor pie."

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sosuemetoo post Nov 10 2004, 12:49 PM
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Well, we finally have the final answer on who pulled the latest hoax and what his purpose might have been.

Our own Snow Fire Watches and MudPuppy interviewed Pamela Moore via e-mail and submitted this article.

Thank you Snow and Mud! You're the greatest!



QUOTE
From LevyMultimedia.com

Paranormal Reports.com
Who is Gary Voss? An Interview with Pamela Moore
By [email protected]
Nov 10, 2004, 03:20



While the latest John Titor tale has played itself out only hours after appearing here at Shady Pine, ParanormalReports.com editors are scratching their heads wondering what inspires one to hoax. In the case of Gary Voss, the originator of the recent “John Titor” emails reported in UFOlogyNews.com, the benefits of faking seem to be clear:

1) a warm welcome to Shady Pine and a free website podium for posting his articles;

2) increased traffic to his personal website; and

3) potential new investor money from increased attention.

What exactly are the benefits to the hoaxee? Would it be the many hours you spend online trying to find out if a story is true or not? Would it be the psychological “let-down” that comes after exposing the hoaxer?

Gary Voss has connected himself to Pamela Moore many times in his online activities that relate to Time Travel and the Time Travel community. Pamela was a friend to the “real” John Titor during the time he spent communicating his version of our possible future to two online BBS communities, Time Travel Institute and Art Bell’s Post to Post. ParanormalReports.com has undeniable proof that Gary Voss sent messages that were to be presented as John Titor communications. Because of her association with both John Titor and Gary Voss, PNR contacted Pamela Moore for her comments. Pamela agreed to be interviewed regarding Gary Voss.

PNR: Pamela, can you tell me a little about your history with Gary Voss?

PM: Gary and I were friends a LONG time ago. I would not consider us being friends now. I just know him. Darby and I were also friends long ago and I would definitely say we are not friends anymore. One of the reasons I quit as [Anomalies.com] Moderator was because of the way that Darby treated people.

PNR: Were you also friends with Phil Fiord at that same time?

PM: Yes. Phil and I were and are close friends. He knows a lot about me and I trust him.

PNR: Do you think Gary Voss was the original John Titor?

PM: No, I don’t think Gary Voss was or is John Titor. Gary was here when John was here. Their IP's were not the same. Gary lived in California. I think he would LIKE to be John though.

PNR: We are really wondering why Gary Voss would use the signature line you used while Moderating at the Anomalies site: “Got Light Make Matter.”

PM: I noticed Gary is using my signature line and I am going to ask him why. A long time ago I got mad at him because he stole John Titor’s symbol badge as his own for his Tap-Ten organization. He said it was in the public domain and he could use it if he wanted to. I have never really talked to him after that. I will confront him on the [Anomalies] board but he will probably just say that I don’t own the signature line and he can use it if he wants to. That’s how he thinks.

PNR: What are your thoughts concerning Gary Voss admitting to hoaxing as John Titor in the new article just released this week?

PM: I am REALLY disappointed in him. I don’t like people who try to defraud other people. I have to say any respect I had for him is shattered.

PNR: Do you have any idea what the poem meant that Gary posted in that article?

PM: I have no idea what the saying meant.

PNR: Anything you’d like to say to Gary Voss now?

PM: I am really disappointed. I would say I really don’t have anything good to say about him.

Thank you so much, Pamela. PNR understands that you, more than anyone else involved in the mystery of John Titor, have been harshly treated and maligned.

In the LevyMultimedia article The John Titor Legend Lives the question is asked,

”We keep watching and waiting for the predictions to come true! Why are we not doing what we can to change the dreaded picture he painted for us?”

The fact is that with alarming accuracy the predictions are coming true. Not only are the people who have heard the John Titor message reacting in an activist manner to change the John Titor future (check timetravelforum.net in the Politcal and John Titor Topics). Americans who have not read the Titor material are also beginning to react as evidenced in alternative news daily and mainstream media more and more each passing day.

The future is ours to shape. Only time will tell if we are up to the task.

The John Titor legend does live on, and can do so quite easily without the hoaxing of Gary Voss.

Reader comments are welcome at editor@paranormal reports .com

© Copyright 2004 by LevyMultimedia.com

This post has been edited by sosuemetoo: Nov 10 2004, 12:50 PM
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KiraSjon post Nov 10 2004, 02:26 PM
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Wow! Thanks so much gals!! What an awesome read >:D<
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pauli post Nov 10 2004, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE
Sigh . . .

Oh well - Will the real John Titor please stand up?

The story lives on anyway . . .

Snow

In complete agreement with you over here Snow.


QUOTE
Once again, I feel bad for Pamela. It seems that people take advantage of her to get a peice of "titor pie."

Agreed 1000% sosue. From everything I have read about Pamela, she seems like such a nice person and doesn't deserve this sort of hurtful behavior from others. :( I just wish people would care more about what their actions might do to another person, than be consumed about the charge they will get out of hoaxing others.
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Grayson post Nov 10 2004, 03:16 PM
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Paul J Lyon has made a point, on several ocassions, of suggesting that Titor may be a they, rather than a him, but why would this be? If the Titor tale became widespread and US citizens believe the carefully crafted warning foretelling doom and despair in their homeland, marked by key events/signposts, would the population brace themselves for the inevitable conflict between the Government and the People. Would the tale therefore precipitate the fact.

But, who would gain by seeing an America divided and a world under seige, what would the benefits be?

Why was John Titor ever here?

Psychological Warfare(Psywar) in the New Millennium

The ability to manage and change the perceptions of a targeted audience is considered the fourth instrument of power available to a State, the other three being the diplomatic, the economic and the military powers.

States not having the required capability for perception-management and for countering the perception management capabilities of not only other States, but also groups posing a threat to their national security and economic well-being, tend to become soft and vulnerable to external forces seeking to undermine the morale and culture of their people and the authority of their Governments.

Expressions such as psychological warfare or Psywar, perception-management, precision-guided propaganda etc refer to the same techniques of influencing the minds of the people. This power has the hard and soft aspects.

The hard aspect relates to creating in the minds of people negative perceptions of their state, government, society etc in order to sow the seeds of alienation.

The soft aspect refers to projecting before the targeted audience attractive images of the state or group directing the propaganda in order to create a desire to follow its lead.

Both these aspects have the ultimate objective of subverting the mind of the audience and influencing it to act unconsciously as desired by the state or group directing the propaganda.

Among the weapons now available for the exercise of this power are printed pamphlets and books, radio, TV, the telephone and the fax, the E-mail, the CD-ROM and the Internet.

However, till the second World War, the weapons used focussed mainly on the printed pamphlets. The radio became an important instrument of propaganda during the war.

The Nazi forces were defeated not only by the superior military might of the Allies, but also by their better propaganda machine and, more particularly, by the British radio broadcasts, which sapped the will of the German people to continue fighting.

With the onset of the Cold War, the propaganda machine of the Western world was directed towards the communist states of East Europe and Asia and Cuba as well as towards those countries in the Third World, including India, which had strong communist and socialist movements.

A little-known fact is that the US National Security Act of 1947, which set up the National Security Council (NSC) and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), intended that the CIA should only co-ordinate the functioning of the intelligence organisations of various government departments and not indulge in independent intelligence-collection.

As Psywar against the communists and the socialists assumed importance, the CIA, which had a core of experienced intelligence and Psywar experts of the second World War vintage, was asked to assume responsibility for Psywar. Later, as covert actions against states and individuals assumed priority, the agency took over the responsibility for intelligence collection and covert actions too.

The Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) of the UK, also known as the MI6, which is the UK’s external intelligence agency, had distinguished itself in Psywar and behind-the-front covert actions during the second World War. The CIA, therefore, acted in tandem with the MI6 in its Psywar operations during the Cold War.

TRADITIONAL METHODS

The main instruments initially used by these agencies were the printed pamphlets, the radio and books. The CIA set up two radio stations in Munich, called Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty, to broadcast to the communist countries. The Voice of America, which is controlled by the State Department and not by the CIA, worked in concert with the CIA stations of Munich. The MI6 continued to rely on the BBC.

Another technique widely used during the Cold War was the co-opting of journalists, authors and publishing houses to help the intelligence agencies.

One would recall the large number of baseless reports regarding India granting base facilities to the Soviet Navy in Vizag and in the Andaman & Nicobar disseminated by the US and UK news agencies and newspapers during the prime minister ship of Mrs.Indira Gandhi. Another baseless report disseminated by Western journalists was that experts of the KGB, the intelligence agency of the erstwhile USSR, were attached as advisers to the late Gen.Sunderji during Operation Blue Star of 1984.

These reports stopped circulating as mysteriously as they had started after her assassination in 1984.

Following disclosures in the media, the John Major Government of the UK admitted in 1995 that a number of British authors, whose anti-communist books had become best-sellers during the Cold War, had been co-operating with the External Publicity Division of the British Foreign Office. Their co-operation was, in fact, with the MI6.

How did their books become best-sellers? The MI6 encouraged publishing houses under its influence to publish their books, persuaded book reviewers to review their books favorably, bought thousands of copies of these books and had them smuggled into the communist countries and gave them free of cost to book-sellers of Third World countries co-operating with the MI6.

This period also saw the mushrooming, with funds allegedly provided by the CIA, of a large number of private radio stations in South-East Asia. Many of these radio stations, which were run by Christian organisations, were anti-communist and anti-socialist in the contents of their programmes.

Another technique, perfected during the Cold War and still used, was the co-opting of policy and decision makers as well as academics and other sections of the elite of the Third World countries by arranging invitations for travel to West Europe and the US, either for research or for participation in seminars, helping individuals in these countries to float think-tanks and non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and arranging funds for them.

The funds were arranged through cut-outs of Western universities, academics and NGOs. The indirect funding of the so-called Track 2 diplomacy gatherings is another Psywar technique of recent origin.

Amongst well-known NGOs, which in the past had allegedly been in receipt of funds from intelligence agencies, were the Amnesty International of the UK and the International Commission of Jurists (ICJ) of Geneva.

The Amnesty International was allegedly in receipt of funds from the Harold Wilson Government in return for its playing down allegations of human rights violations by the British Security forces in Aden and Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and the ICJ was allegedly in receipt of funds from private lawyers’ organisations in the US, whose contributions to the ICJ were re-imbursed to them by the CIA.

Following disclosures to the British media by a secretary of the Amnesty, the Wilson Government had admitted its links with the organisation and the CIA’s alleged contributions to the ICJ through private lawyers’ organisations came to notice during the post-Watergate enquiries into the functioning of the CIA and the FBI.

THE FAX, THE E-MAIL, THE CD-ROM AND THE INTERNET

The Fax, the E-mail, the CD-ROM and the Internet have placed new and sophisticated instruments of Psywar in the hands of not only intelligence agencies, but also separatist, extremist and terrorist organisations. These electronic instruments have totally revolutionised the concept of Psywar.

Whereas Psywar, as practised in the past, whether by a state or individual groups, was directed at a community or a group of people, these instruments have made it possible to direct Psywar at specially-selected individuals in the targeted country or population, who would be in a position to influence others.

The Fax, the E-mail, the Internet and the CD-ROM are being extensively used by the Amnesty International, the Human Rights Watch of the US and other anti-establishment NGOs, either acting on their own or at the instance of Western intelligence agencies, for maintaining two-way communications with political dissidents in China and Cuba.

Political exiles from Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Egypt living in the UK, the Algerian exiles in France, the Kurdish exiles in different countries of Europe and the overseas supporters of the Kashmiri extremists use these instruments for their propaganda. Similarly, the Tibetan and the Uighur exiles have been using them against China and the Burmese students abroad against the military regime.

Writing in the "Strategic Review" (Spring 1997), Christopher M. Centner, an analyst of the US Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA), said: " The modern information age provides a means to make arguments directly to influential individuals and audiences, without going through traditional diplomatic or propagandistic means. The era of state-to-state diplomacy is fast declining. The era of state-to-person diplomacy is beginning."

He added: " The new information media---Internet and its associate systems, E-mail, satellite communications, personal computers , CD-ROMs and others--- permit the state more opportunities to address foreign individuals on a one-to-one basis…Data manipulation, E-mail spoofing (intentional electronic masquerading of oneself as another person or electronic entity) , turned human intelligence resources, altered audio, video and other media can all be used. Other information sources--- individuals, private companies, agencies---that could impede the acceptance of the campaign’s themes may be disabled or discredited by, among other means, the use of rumours spread through Faxes or E-mail, during conferences or World Wide Web sites.

"The new information age permits precision-guided propaganda, much as modern technology permits precision-guided bombs. Propaganda can be customised to particular individuals, interest groups and factions, increasing the probability of campaign success. It is possible to envision the creation of a propaganda planning and execution organisation that would co-ordinate a campaign in support of a major national security goal.

" As we enter the age of information technology and information warfare, it is time to re-examine and revise our thoughts on propaganda. As information becomes increasingly critical, the molding of information and the judicious orchestration of emerging media become not only more essential to achieving national goals, but to US security itself."

Curious.

This post has been edited by Grayson: Nov 10 2004, 03:19 PM
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Paul J. Lyon post Nov 10 2004, 06:34 PM
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I love the fact that this topic starts off as a kind of literary criticism of a short text, which was then thoughtfully put into a poem (and became wonderfully clear because of that), and ended up being the seed of a potential discussion of the root question:

Did Titor tell the future?

Hoax or not, it's the same question.
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StarLord post Nov 10 2004, 06:40 PM
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Wouldn't it be closer that the program THEY used did a wonderful job at predicting plausable senarios? Perhaps titor was a disgruntled butler at the Villa of the Terrible9 and overheard part of the planning session to take the US to it's knees to control it..... One very big CLUE game.
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Paul J. Lyon post Nov 10 2004, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE(StarLord @ Nov 11 2004, 12:40 AM)
Wouldn't it be closer that the program THEY used did a wonderful job at predicting plausable senarios? Perhaps titor was a disgruntled butler at the Villa of the Terrible9 and overheard part of the planning session to take the US to it's knees to control it..... One very big CLUE game.
*




Col. Cheney did it in the ammo dump with the pipeline.
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CaryP post Nov 10 2004, 06:48 PM
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Awesome post Grayson. At the same time this is well, unsettling at best.

Cary
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Grayson post Nov 10 2004, 07:04 PM
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It's the last sentence of the Centner quote that has me most interested.
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|---- John Titor


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