Chronovisor [TimeTravelForum.tk] Nvragnevr, in regards to MIRC

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Nvragnevr, in regards to MIRC
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Phoenix Posted: Feb 18 2004, 04:33 AM



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Jorune
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 07:36 AM
QUOTE

I should note that (Nvragnevr) joined the room also (in the above log) and asks some pointed questions of AlexanderTT.

I asked KPAX who Nvragnevr was:
-KPAX- (private) he is a scientist frientd of Opmmur and Hitman's

-Jorune


opmmur
Posted: Feb 17 2004, 11:35 AM
QUOTE

To all members

QUOTE
I asked KPAX who Nvragnevr was:
-KPAX- (private) he is a scientist friend of Opmmur and Hitman's


Nvragnevr was never a personal friend just a forum member. I talked to him only once or twice that is all.

QUOTE
I am very sorry the Alexander and KPAX happened. argue.gif


QUOTE
I really now believe Alexander is the person he claims to be. I am 95% sure now after reading to whole mIRC log list and linked below.


I believe Alexander is the person he claims to be because; if you review the information posted by Alexander is not a scientist but soldier and he with head to head with a man that has 2 PhD?s and 3 MBA?s electronic and physics. Also I believe the scientist was trying to proof Alexander a fake and could not do the job!!

Alexander's whole (#AlexanderTTSPeaks) mIRC is here and all after comments also.

To Link: http://s3.invisionfree.com/Time_Travel_Theory/ (section Alexander's Feb. mIRC logs.

or use

<a href='(site in my profile)index.php?showtopic=63&st=20' target='_blank'>http://s3.invisionfree.com/Time_Travel_The...wtopic=63&st=20</a>

Gavin please: do not delete this post, like you did in the past: The information is very essential to all your current forum members.

Professor Opmmur smile.gif

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Phoenix Posted: Feb 20 2004, 06:24 AM



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First critique
QUOTE

[00:01] <Nvragnevr> i have spent a lot of time, around real scientists, doing real science
[00:01] <AlexanderTT> i will give you that respect if you return it
[00:02] <Nvragnevr> fine, i hear you alex
[00:02] <Nvragnevr> if you claim to have an actual device, or know of one, i am waiting for specifics

Nvragnevr asks for specific's on Alexander's device.

QUOTE

[00:02] <AlexanderTT> i will tell you all that I know
[00:02] <Nvragnevr> i have worked in electrophysics and signal processing for many years...also medical instrumntation
[00:03] <Nvragnevr> i hold a double b\BS, triple MS, in engineeringh physics, math, and the biosciences
[00:03] <Nvragnevr> i am for real
[00:03] <Nvragnevr> if you have serious topics to discuss, i will listen seriously

Nvragnevr changes the subject back to himself than turns it over to Alexander for "serious topics".
QUOTE

[00:03] <Nvragnevr> however
[00:03] <Nvragnevr> i will not listen to total nonsense
[00:03] <Nvragnevr> completely unsubstantiated
[00:03] <Nvragnevr> now
[00:03] <AlexanderTT> Nvragnevr, are you aware of gravity and time being connected?

Alexander brings up a serious topic.

QUOTE

[00:03] <Nvragnevr> if you have serious technical aspects to discuss
[00:03] <Nvragnevr> please get about it
[00:03] <Nvragnevr> im waiting
[00:04] <Nvragnevr> well?

And Nvragnevr avoids the issue.

QUOTE

[00:04] <AlexanderTT> what do you want to know
[00:04] <Nvragnevr> in what sense are you referring to?
[00:04] <AlexanderTT> gravity is not a force, it is part of the 4th dimension, you call this space-time
[00:04] <Nvragnevr> that is just stupid, alex


Nvragnevr again avoids a topic he can not face.

QUOTE

[00:05] <AlexanderTT> ever wondered if you could go through a black hole
[00:05] <Thelper> nvr
[00:05] <Nvragnevr> lets get back to some real basics here
[00:05] <AlexanderTT> I can explain how you can
[00:05] <Thelper> do you even know of the 5th dimention?
[00:05] <Nvragnevr> i understand, thelper
[00:05] <Nvragnevr> i hear you
[00:05] <Nvragnevr> first
[00:05] <Nvragnevr> do any of you even know the difference between general and special relativity?

Nvragnevr is trying to change the subject from the gravity time link that Alexander has brought up.

QUOTE

[00:05] <Nvragnevr> do any of you even know who lorentz was?
[00:06] <Nvragnevr> what what the lorentz transformation is?
[00:06] <Thelper> pysics are wrong this will be found out in late future
[00:06] <AlexanderTT> general relativity applies the rule of not being able to travel faster than light

Nvragnevr has successfully changed the subject. He is not talking about specifics of Alexanders time machine. Now Nvragnevr is talking about equations/algebras such as the lorentz transformation.

QUOTE

[00:06] <Nvragnevr> or what riemannian space time actually implies?
[00:06] <Nvragnevr> no, alex
[00:06] <Nvragnevr> special relativity defines that
[00:06] * algol_aida has joined #alexanderttspeaks
[00:06] <AlexanderTT> i have the lorentz transformation

Alexander's manual has information on the lorentz transformation.

QUOTE
( edit: thelper interaction and mod actions deleted)
[00:06] <Nvragnevr> not general
[00:06] <AlexanderTT> its in my manual
[00:07] <Nvragnevr> and before you go into such things
[00:07] <Nvragnevr> how much electromagnetics do any of you know?

Nvragnevr changes the subject and claims his very minor victory that Alexander came back with knowledge of special relativity not general relativity. Reminds me of the National Lampoon European vacation where they missed the question because the said lower instead of upper.


QUOTE
(edit: thelper garbage deleted)
[00:07] <Nvragnevr> because
[00:07] <Nvragnevr> before you can even discuss relativity intelligently
[00:07] <Nvragnevr> that is absolutely requisite

Nvragnevr demonstrates a very short term memory as Alexander already claimed to know virtually nothing of physics.
QUOTE
(edit: thelper interastion deleted)
[00:07] <AlexanderTT> Nvragnevr, relativity forbids time travel

Alexander still comes back with knowledge of relativity.
QUOTE
(edit: thelper interaction deleted)
[00:08] <AlexanderTT> thats like saying newton applies to quantum mechanics

Alexander rebuffs Nvragners comments on electro-magnetism prerequisite.
QUOTE
(edit: thelper junk deleted)
[00:08] <Nvragnevr> you are speaking with no knowledge, and in total ignorance of relevant physics
[00:08] <Nvragnevr> now
[00:08] <Nvragnevr> if you want me explain my views, i will
[00:09] <AlexanderTT> yes, and I have admitted I have no formal traning in these matters

Alexander underlies Nvragnevr's complete arrogance and stupidity. Alexander told Nvragnervr' about Alex's lack of formal training and Nvragnevr brings it up like it was some newly revealed point.
QUOTE
(edit: Thelper garbage deleted)
[00:09] <AlexanderTT> explain your views Nvragnevr, I am listening
[00:09] <AlexanderTT> it might sound familier to me
[00:09] <AlexanderTT> please

Notice how Nvragnevr is not talking about any specifics of Alexander's time machine so far? He is only talking about what a great scientist he is and how Alexander does not have the same knowledge of physics. Is this suppose to be a serious topic.

QUOTE

[00:09] <Nvragnevr> you want me to change topics?

Nvragner firsts asks if Alexander wants him to explain his views he will (more self absorption). Then he makes it looks like Alexander is the one that wants to switch topics. What was the topic to being with? Obviously not lorentz transformations or the theory of relativity. Nvragner was quick to hide behind comments like you must have a background in this or that first. Quickly changing those subjects when ever Alexander sounded like he actually had some idea what Nvragner might mean behind his big impressive words.

QUOTE

[00:10] <AlexanderTT> explain your views on science behind time travel, is it possible and how?
[00:10] <Nvragnevr> there are serious aspects of time reversal that do occur routinely in physics and engineering
[00:10] <Nvragnevr> albeit not for such spectacular reasons
[00:10] <Nvragnevr> generally
[00:11] <Nvragnevr> time reversal occurs due due to complex conjugacy
[00:11] <Nvragnevr> which requires a fair level of complex variable theory to follow
[00:11] <AlexanderTT> no you are already starting out wrong, I DID NOT TRULY TRAVEL TIME, I traveled to your worldline which is behind us in relation to our current calender

Here Nvragner is wrong what is his response?


QUOTE

[00:12] <Nvragnevr> alex, cut the nonsense, ok?

What response would you expect from a guy with such an inflated ego?
Of coarse HE is not wrong.


QUOTE

[00:12] <AlexanderTT> wew cannot travel through time literally
[00:12] <Nvragnevr> please
[00:12] <Nvragnevr> if you want a serious discussion, i will have one
[00:12] <Nvragnevr> however
[00:12] <AlexanderTT> go on
[00:12] <Nvragnevr> i will not listen to that sort of BS, ok?

Notice Nvragnevr does not even try to make a case of why he might be right. He just resort to mud throwing.


QUOTE

[00:12] <Nvragnevr> yes?
[00:12] <Nvragnevr> YES?
[00:12] <Nvragnevr> im waiting, alex

Haa haa haa haa.


QUOTE

[00:12] <AlexanderTT> i am just pointing out that you assumed I traveled the same time line backwards

Nvragnevr is wrong.


QUOTE

[00:13] <Nvragnevr> alex, stop bandying terminology you clearly do not understand, ok?

Instead of admiting he is wrong he turns the tables and talks about terminology. Alexander did not talk about relativity or lorentz transformation in his last statement. Does Nvragnevr seek to stop the use of the word "time line"???

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Phoenix Posted: Feb 20 2004, 07:05 AM



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Second critique
QUOTE

[00:13] <AlexanderTT> that is not possible

Alexander firmly states Nvragner is wrong. But lets him make a fool of himself.
QUOTE

[00:13] <Nvragnevr> please
[00:13] <Nvragnevr> now
[00:13] <Nvragnevr> an example of time reversal in physics, occurs in convolution
[00:13] <Nvragnevr> and the concept of an impuslse response
[00:14] <Nvragnevr> one speaks of an impuse response being convolved with a time function
[00:14] <Nvragnevr> however
[00:14] <Nvragnevr> physicslly, one passes over the other time reversed
[00:14] <Nvragnevr> which is standard physics
[00:14] <Nvragnevr> next
[00:14] <Nvragnevr> there is such a thing as an an adjoint operator
[00:15] <Nvragnevr> in hamiltonian physics
[00:15] <Nvragnevr> arising also in quantum mechanics
[00:15] <Nvragnevr> which involves the complex conjugate of the transpose of the elements of a matrix
[00:15] <Nvragnevr> that is very real, and does occur
[00:16] <Nvragnevr> the reason time reversal often occurs in physics, is that normally, time solutions tent to be harmonic
[00:16] <Nvragnevr> sinusoidal
[00:16] <Nvragnevr> and thus exponential
[00:16] <AlexanderTT> sounds familier

Alexander has heard all of this stuff the Nvragner is trying to impress and intimidate everyone with.
QUOTE

[00:16] <Link22> i think you've slammed him already..haa haa haa

And Nvragnevr has the people who so badly wish to believe he is making any sort of case.
He is making a fool of himself.

QUOTE
(edit: mod operations deleted)
[00:16] <Nvragnevr> solutions fo differential equations often involve solving for eigenvalues
[00:17] <Nvragnevr> those eigenvalues are often complex conjugates of one another, reflections in time or position
[00:17] <Nvragnevr> an example occurs in cojugate optics
[00:17] <Nvragnevr> especially in holographic generation
[00:18] <Nvragnevr> Fourier optics also uses that feature constantly
[00:18] <Nvragnevr> i trust i am making my point?
[00:18] <Nvragnevr> now
[00:18] <Nvragnevr> if you want serious, i will be serious


If anyone could follow along what Nvragner said was about as relevant as reading off a list of names in the telephone directory. Another words, there was no point made at all.
QUOTE

[00:18] <AlexanderTT> you have not adressed anything that applies to the science that got me here

QUOTE

[00:18] <Nvragnevr> when you even remotely understand those concepts, come and talk to me

I do remotely understand those concepts. I had to solve for eigenvalues in matrixes for tests. They are just big words.
QUOTE
(edit: interaction with KPAX deleted)
[00:18] <AlexanderTT> you think of your universe as just that uni
[00:19] <Nvragnevr> your science, if real, is based on that level of knowledge
[00:19] <Nvragnevr> understand it, have an intelligent discussion about it
[00:19] <Nvragnevr> and MAYBE i MIGHT believe you
[00:19] <Nvragnevr> till then what you are saying is total BS

Translation, "I am god. I know everything. What I understand will be true for all time."
QUOTE

[00:19] <Link22> i don't think the science of today is gonna be so unkown in 30 years
[00:19] <AlexanderTT> Nvragnevr, you do not want to have a conversation you just wanted to copy and paste those messages and then leave

What do you the reader think?
QUOTE

[00:20] <Nvragnevr> do i make myself clear?
[00:20] <AlexanderTT> calling that proof
[00:20] <AlexanderTT> you will not address my questions or comments, you call it BS

e.i. Nvragner avoids the things he can not answer and changes the subject.
QUOTE

[00:20] <Nvragnevr> if you have technical details, present them

Nvragnevr returns to his original request, that he spent all this time NOT talking about.
QUOTE
(edit: catman's comment deleted)
[00:20] <Nvragnevr> i will listen
[00:20] <Nvragnevr> im listening
[00:20] <Nvragnevr> explain
[00:20] <AlexanderTT> are you aware of the theories behind event horizons?

Here is the subject Nvragner has been avoiding gravity is related to time.
QUOTE

[00:21] <Nvragnevr> certainly
[00:21] <Nvragnevr> relate those to your device please

And Alexander will.
QUOTE

[00:21] <AlexanderTT> first your views on why we cannot enter them, if you please, and I'll explain why you can

Alexander does explain later he is just setting up the trap for Nvragnevr which Nvragner false into.
QUOTE
(edit: thelper garbage deleted)
[00:21] <Link22> haa haa haa
[00:21] * GearBrains feels like Jethro Bodine at a Einstein convention!
[00:22] <Link22> you know it's hard to take someone with such horrible grammar so seriously
[00:22] <Nvragnevr> first, the concept of a wormhole does arise at extremely high energies, that cannot be duplicated here
[00:22] <AlexanderTT> no not wormhole
[00:22] <AlexanderTT> event horizon of a black hole

Nvragnevr makes a false assumption.
QUOTE
(edit: thelper trash deleted)
[00:22] <Nvragnevr> for what you are describing to occur would require at least fusion power...minimum
[00:22] <AlexanderTT> you have yet to address the simple matter of being stretched to infinity as aproachin it

Nvragnevr is avoiding the subject, yet again.
QUOTE
(edit: link response to Thelper deleted)
[00:23] <Nvragnevr> that is nonsense...i fully understand the concept of event horizon of a black hole
[00:23] <Nvragnevr> and they cannot be duplicated here

Alexander did not talk about creating a black hole yet. He only wanted Nvragnevr to talk about being streched to infinity which Nvragnevr is avoiding like a child afraid to swim.
QUOTE

[00:23] <AlexanderTT> then why can you not enter one?
[00:23] <AlexanderTT> i will explain why you can after you explain why you cannot
[00:23] <Nvragnevr> are you referring to divergence again?

Nvragnevr is avoiding the subject like crazy now.
QUOTE

[00:23] <AlexanderTT> no
[00:24] <Nvragnevr> then what?
[00:24] <Nvragnevr> i have a limit to my astrophysics, i have done a fair amount of particle physics

As PT_Geek said, leave yourself a way out.
QUOTE

[00:24] <Nvragnevr> up through cross section
[00:24] <Nvragnevr> mandelstam variables

Nvragner tries to hide behind technical terms again.
QUOTE

[00:24] <AlexanderTT> i am referring to having infinite difference between gravity pull in front of you and behind you as you approach the horizon
[00:24] <Nvragnevr> the dirac equation
[00:24] <Nvragnevr> ok, i follow

Nvragnevr once again feels the need to shield himself with a mathematical equation to deflect the fact that Alexander is actually telling him something.

QUOTE

[00:24] <AlexanderTT> ok
[00:25] <AlexanderTT> lets move on to why this would not be a problem
[00:25] <Nvragnevr> as i understood the matter, a black hole is a singularity
[00:25] <AlexanderTT> yes, but we have not reached the singularity yet, we are apraoching
[00:25] <Nvragnevr> where graviational field lines diverge
[00:26] <AlexanderTT> the singularity lies beyond the event horizon, where not even light can come back
[00:26] <AlexanderTT> do you follow
[00:26] <Nvragnevr> i want you to please relate that to explicit technology

Nvragnevr once again changes the subject, this is getting way old by now.
QUOTE

[00:26] <Nvragnevr> if you know explicit technology, discuss it
[00:26] <Nvragnevr> obviously , i follow
[00:26] <Nvragnevr> i want you to relate that to specific technology

Despite Nvragner constantly talking about himself and cow chips he keeps insisting that he wants to talk about technical details which he has thus far not sought to talk about at all. Nvragner is a liar.
QUOTE

[00:27] <Nvragnevr> the level of power required, let along the energy levels, would require controlled fusion
[00:27] <Nvragnevr> on a tokamak level
[00:27] <AlexanderTT> you have not created an artificial black hole yet
[00:27] <Nvragnevr> discuss the specifics of your technology NOW, please

Nvragnevr shows a despirate need to change the subject from black hole event horizons.
QUOTE

[00:27] <AlexanderTT> i am speaking of natural black holes and your current understanding of them
[00:28] <Nvragnevr> i have a reasonable grasp of the concept
[00:28] <Nvragnevr> please relate that to you technology
[00:28] <Nvragnevr> if you are for real, relate that to an explicit device, please
[00:29] <AlexanderTT> as you aproach the event horizon the force of gravity would be enough to stretch you out almost infinitely, this is not a problem due to the fact that gravityies force os so strong it breaks down the laws of physics, allowing you to be strectched
[00:29] <Nvragnevr> i am not a happy camper, alex
[00:29] <Nvragnevr> i want specifics
[00:29] <AlexanderTT> now lets continue ,I promise to get to the C404 in a minute

And he does
QUOTE


[00:29] <Nvragnevr> now, please
[00:30] <Nvragnevr> im waiting, alex
[00:30] <AlexanderTT> a kerr black hole is a man made concept, CERN laboratories right now are trying to develop these

This is a specific related to Alexander's device.
QUOTE

[00:30] <Nvragnevr> ive heard
[00:31] <Nvragnevr> but that is not correct either
[00:31] <Nvragnevr> but ill let that pass for now
[00:31] <Nvragnevr> i want specifics about technology, please
[00:31] <AlexanderTT> in a kerr black hole the singularity would be what ever is inside the event horizon, and the gravity forces could be controlled on the outside (not sucking the world in) by another kerr black hole being used to contain the event horizon
[00:31] <Nvragnevr> first
[00:31] <AlexanderTT> do you follow or should I eleborate

That is a specific about Alexander's device. Just like Nvragner said he wanted to hear about.
QUOTE

[00:32] <Nvragnevr> if you are claiming that level of physics
[00:32] <Nvragnevr> you cannot do so legitimately without some basic knowledge of the standard model
[00:32] <Nvragnevr> or of quantum mechanics

Nvragner quickly changes the subject to his own great superiority of knowledge over others. Yawn.
QUOTE

[00:32] <AlexanderTT> i am expliaing what was told to me Nvragnevr, IN lay-mans terms
[00:32] <Nvragnevr> or string theoretic concepts
[00:33] <KPAX> gotcha!

And for all of that subject avoidance and hiding behind rhetoric Nvragnevr has his believers that he actually proved something.
QUOTE

[00:33] <Nvragnevr> i want specifics as to technology
[00:33] <Nvragnevr> for example
[00:33] <Nvragnevr> what is a tensor?
[00:33] <Nvragnevr> and how does it differ from a matrix?

Nvragner is flatly contradicting himself here. He states he wants specifics of technology, then he switches to wanting to know about mathematical concepts. This would qualify as changing ones story by KPAX's standards.
QUOTE

[00:33] <AlexanderTT> specifics? the applied concepts is in the C404 sitting about one hundred yards from me right now
[00:34] <Nvragnevr> i am waiting eagerly for you to explain the term C404
[00:34] <AlexanderTT> tensor, the vibration of strings ?

Alexander even comes back with an understanding of the concept.
QUOTE

[00:34] <Nvragnevr> i meant the mathematical operation

No he meant the specifics of technology but changed his story.
QUOTE

[00:34] <AlexanderTT> i have those too
[00:34] <AlexanderTT> but it is hard to post them in here
[00:34] <Nvragnevr> i am waiting for a description of the term C404, alex
[00:34] <AlexanderTT> i have the equations that you seek
[00:34] <Nvragnevr> i am not asking you for equations

Third time Nvragnevr changes his story.

There I have proven Nvragnevr is a liar.

The thing is I know he is not a liar. The method of proof is what is a lie.

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jovial_kitten Posted: Feb 20 2004, 07:11 AM



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I always have the most off the wall replies.
But I like your comments about "thelper garbage deleted"
made me spray milk on my computer:p


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Phoenix Posted: Feb 20 2004, 07:21 AM



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QUOTE (jovial_kitten @ Feb 19 2004, 11:11 PM)
I always have the most off the wall replies.
But I like your comments about "thelper garbage deleted"
made me spray milk on my computer:p

Not that I have that much against what thelper has to say. It just really got annoying to see it interjected into the conversation between Alexander and Nvragnevr. "You will understand better when you d-ie... to bad you have not d-ied yet... blah blah blah" Just let Alexander reply to the scientist. Also I actually have deep respect for Nvragnevr. It is h*ll earning degrees and learning those subjects. It is all to clear to me that he does hold those degrees. This parody is more to show how this type of method for proving someone a liar, does not mean anything.

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TampaUSA Posted: Feb 20 2004, 04:35 PM



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Too bad I missed that conversation...

A Wanabee TTer vs. an EGOtistical MAD scientist...

Sounds like a perfect script for celebrity DEATHMATCH! laugh.gif

IN THIS CORNER: THE SUDDEN APPEARANCE OF FOREIGN WORLD MATTER AKA "The JT coatail dude"

IN THIS CORNER: THE SUPER JR' SPACE RANGER RCOKET SCIENTIST AKA "THE MAD EGO!"

And tha crowd go wild!

Thanks for the post Phoenix...



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Gprei Posted: Mar 4 2004, 03:13 PM



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laugh.gif That Nvragnevr is a joke!
Ain't all scientist seem to have the habit of exploring new things?
Nvragnevr is a scientist or a joker?
If Nvragnevr is here, i wish to tell him that once yesterday is gone...no matter what we do, we are unable to go back to our yesterday anymore.
This is in fact true. We can come to this conclusion using logical thinking even without TTing.

Anyway, interesting subject on gravity and time is connected. But how? Can't seem to find the logic behind it though...must think more deeply.


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What you see is not what they are since there is no guarantee in the truth that you know.
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