Welcome To The Time Travel Forum!! This Site Is NOW *Officially* Live!!! Remember To READ THE FORUM RULES Before You Post Anything!! ... IF YOU'RE A *REAL* TIME TRAVELLER, PLEASE CONTACT US HERE - WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU!! CONTACT ME - FAX/VOICEMAIL: 1-309-4020-451, EMAIL: [email protected]
· Forum Rules · Portal Help Search Members Calendar
Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register ) Resend Validation Email
Contact Us
Gavin (Admin): FAX/VOICEMAIL NUMBER: 1-309-4020-451, EMAIL: [email protected]
Search:
All Products
Keywords:
Go
The Time Travel Forum (http://www.TimeTravelForum.tk)->SCIENTIFIC TIME-TRAVEL THEORIES!!->YOUR THEORIES?
Pages: (2) [1] 2 ( Go to first unread post )
Tue Effect, For the benefit of Boris and Koaon
Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic
Phoenix Posted: Jan 31 2004, 12:47 AM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
QUOTE
QUOTE
Spiritual Energy, the TUE effect and their applications sounds fascinating, and although I understand you are reluctant to talk about them, I would love to hear more.
I would also love to write more. I am in no way reluctant, that is why I wrote a large book about it. But this topic is so long already, I must refrain from too much detail.
This section is for Boris and others who would like to hear about TUE technology.
Debunkers please post your posts in the debunker's echo. They will be deleted if you post them here.
Top
koaon Posted: Jan 31 2004, 09:44 AM
Time Travel Beginner
Group: Members
Posts: 39
Member No.: 331
Joined: 24-January 04
Phoenix, once again thank you for starting this thread.
A good starting point is probably the following quote from Boris, and I hope Boris is willing to go into a lot more detail.
QUOTE
I admit there are some differences with "Spiritual Energy". For a start, it is less obviously visible in its effects to most people than fire ever was. The best way to explain is to say that it taps into the infinite benefits to Humankind that were derived from the conceptualization of the TUE effect (Tiggered Ultra Ethereal) in the 26th century, from which derived the RMX drive, the Strapowac and many other "wonders". It is the mathematical articulation of thought as a dimension, and the subsequent utilization of this additional dimension in what you would refer to as applied physics. How it works is as simple as it is complex. Anyone nowadays can travel to Mars and back in the blink of an eye by simply imagining it. Oh, but that is "in one's mind" you will say, correctly. Correctly, yes, but only because you do not have the benefit of the TUE effect. Where I come from, this remark is as logical as to say that that which is heavier than air cannot fly, which statement was also for many millennia taken to be the most obvious logical, scientific fact, and this despite the existence of birds. I'm afraid I can't be anymore specific. There are conceptual gaps that only time can bridge.
Boris, you also said:
QUOTE
In my time, techological applications are based on the dimension of thought and on psychic energy. The fact that this cannot be explained in terms of current, limited scientific theory is unfortunate, mostly for you.
Fair enough, but wouldn't it be even more unfortunate if you don't even TRY to explain it. If not in terms of OUR current theories, then maybe in terms of YOURS.
Like yourself, I am no scientist, and I fully expect not to understand much of what is posted in this regard. But you must have realised by now that many people on this forum are extraordinarily open-minded, and wouldn't merely dismiss anything they don't understand.
All I ask is that you give us the same benefit of the doubt that we give you.
Regards
koaon
Top
bb boris Posted: Jan 31 2004, 12:07 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (koaon @ Jan 31 2004, 10:44 AM)
Like yourself, I am no scientist, and I fully expect not to understand much of what is posted in this regard. But you must have realised by now that many people on this forum are extraordinarily open-minded, and wouldn't merely dismiss anything they don't understand.
All I ask is that you give us the same benefit of the doubt that we give you.
I appreciate what you say, Koaon, and so I shall try my best.
One caveat. You do see that you are asking me no less than to attempt to communicate an elemental paradigm that I take for granted to people who, however intelligent and open-mided they be, are living within an entirely different paradigm. At such a level, it is not even a question of evolution, it is closer to being a question of alienness, like atttempting communication between different species with no common language.
Let me try and illustrate the difficulty: Consider that you are confident in what you understand of the Aristotelian/Newtonian/Relativity paradigms you live under, as have your forefathers for millennia. Although you know little of the theories underlying your world views (physics, empirical scientific method, quantum physics etc) you understand instinctively how the Universe works for you. Now then. You have in front of you a bright, eager Neanderthal for whom the world is peopled with spirits, and whose daily life is driven by survival impulses. He cannot even conceive of the physical recording of thoughts (writing), even less of the transmission of concepts (philosophical conversation). How do you proceed? I can assure you that my first eight years in this era were sheer hell for me. The only natives I could even begin to communicate with were occasional alcoholic vagrants I ran into, for many of them seemed to be beyond, or outside current thought patterns and acceptations. You cannot imagine the work it represented to absorb your way of seeing things. But I think I succeeded, although I paid a heavy price for it.
There is another issue I must flag: This topic comes under "Time-Travel Theories". However, what we are supposed to discuss here is the TUE effect, which has nothing specific to do with time-travel. It is as if we were discussing the theory of relativity in this section. Both that theory and the TUE effect do of course underlie the discussions taking place in this section, but time-travel is but a minute application of either.
Good. Those provisos being stated, I shall proceed. I assume that you have read the many references to the TUE effect in the "Greetings Earthlings" topic.
So I shall just begin with a quote from our Encyclopaedia:
QUOTE
TUE EFFECT
The acronym (pronounced Tyou) derives from "Triggered Ultra Ethereal" effect. A potent blend of the principles underlying spiritualism, quantum physics and ecologically-sensitive scientific research. The major conceptual discovery of modern times. Formulated by a Maori scientist in the twenty-sixth century, it marked the end of Humankind's post-exodus trauma and a new beginning. It spawned the harnessing of starwind power, a form of energy that gave us unlimited, clean energy - see STRAPOWAC (op. cit.), the RMX drive, which opened up the Galaxy and beyond, as well as countless applications such as subsignals (op. cit.), the instantaneous transmission of data from any part of the known Universe to any other.
Admittedly, a very bare definition, but there it is. I suspect that in my haste to transcribe elements from my database all those years ago I may have brought up the children's version.
Where to begin? You will have to help me, with specific questions I can grapple with. Let me just as an introduction try and describe my personal worldview, as it is perfectly congruent with life as it is back home:
I believe the Universe is large spiritual matrix. I like the image of a hive, only each and every component is equal and interchangeable, be it the bees, the walls, the trays and the air. All around it is activity, to infinity. There we find galaxies (and all "physical" manifestations), time itself and music. All this is linked together by Spiritual Energy. Bees have the ability to exit and enter the hive (more or less at will).
Currently, you are under the mistaken view that the hive is ethereal, and that the outside is "real". But in a way, it is the very opposite (insofar as anything is "real", of course). What the TUE Effect allows us to do is to exploit that awareness, and to even control it by implementing applications that are impossible according to your world view.
Hmmm. I'm getting a slight headache, so I shall leave it at that for now. Perhaps the best method would be for you to identify perspectives that would enable you to steer me into an approach that you would be comfortable with. In other words, as I wrote earlier, specific questions.
Even though I may be risking a major time paradox with all this, I promise you I shall hide nothing. After all, I feel like I belong here now, and I see no sense in trying to second-guess destiny.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
koaon Posted: Jan 31 2004, 03:10 PM
Time Travel Beginner
Group: Members
Posts: 39
Member No.: 331
Joined: 24-January 04
Boris, I am delighted that you have decided to take this further. I suspect that it will be as much of challenge for me as it will be for you.
All of your caveats, concerns and provisos are noted and understood, and I will agree to continue this discussion with that in mind.
You ask for specific questions. I trust I can rely on some of the other, more learned forum members to help me out here.
I would suggest though, that instead of diving head first into your world of TUE and Spiritual Energy, we first explore our world of Newtonian and quantum physics, and maybe arrive at some common ground.
Newtonian Physics:
Althouhg very useful in explaining the behaviour of objects at macroscopic level (dust particles, pool balls, planets, galaxies etc), is fairly useless in explaining anything at the subatomic level. From what I understand, newtonian physics is still used and stu*****d in your time. Has there been any significant advances in the understanding of Newton's laws, or is it pretty much the same in your time as in ours?
Quantum Physics:
Although quantum physics manages to explain many things that newtonian laws cannot, it probably presents more questions than it does answers. It challenges many of our perceptions about reality and, taken to its extreme, sounds more like easterm mysticism than science.
QUOTE
Consider that you are confident in what you understand of the Aristotelian/Newtonian/Relativity paradigms you live under, as have your forefathers for millennia. Although you know little of the theories underlying your world views (physics, empirical scientific method, quantum physics etc) you understand instinctively how the Universe works for you.
I'm not sure I agree with this. In fact, if anything, quantum physics teaches us how little we understand about our universe. For example, some quantum theories imply that particles are able to able to somehow communicate with each other instantaneously, even if seperated by vast distances, even many lightyears. This made people like Einstein very uncomfortable, since it directly contradicts his own theories that NOTHING can travel faster than the speed of light. Is "thought" the mechanism that makes this possible?
My question here is similar to the one on newtonian physics. Are some aspects of quantum mechanics as we know it still being used or stu*****d in your time. What advances were made in quantum physics up to the point where the TUE effect was discovered? Are there any similarities between our quantum physics and your "quantics"?
Also, our scientists are still looking for that illusive unifying theory that can explain everything on macroscopic and subatomic levels. Does Spiritual Energy accomplish this, or are your scientists now looking for a new unifying theory that incorparates newtonian laws, quantum physics AND spiritual energy?
I hope others will join this discussion as well, even if only to help me understand OUR current theories, let alone yours. I do urge everyone to take it SLOW, otherwise I fear constant headaches will also be my fate. biggrin.gif
Regards
koaon
Top
Phoenix Posted: Jan 31 2004, 04:41 PM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
QUOTE
I believe the Universe is large spiritual matrix. I like the image of a hive, only each and every component is equal and interchangeable, be it the bees, the walls, the trays and the air. All around it is activity, to infinity. There we find galaxies (and all "physical" manifestations), time itself and music. All this is linked together by Spiritual Energy. Bees have the ability to exit and enter the hive (more or less at will).
Currently, you are under the mistaken view that the hive is ethereal, and that the outside is "real". But in a way, it is the very opposite (insofar as anything is "real", of course). What the TUE Effect allows us to do is to exploit that awareness, and to even control it by implementing applications that are impossible according to your world view.
Your remarks remind me of the philosophy of "idealism" of George Berkeley. Interestingly it is the supposed lack of usefulness of such a philosophy that is responsible for it not being widely accepted, not so much as the logical grounds it is founded on in reasoning.
QUOTE
Berkeley's early theory of idealism -- the version now associated with his name -- is found in his Principles of Human Knowledge, and Three Dialogues Between Hylas and Philonous. In both of these Berkeley argues that no existence is conceivable (and therefore not possible) which is not either conscious spirit or the ideas (i.e. objects) of which such spirit is conscious. Locke affirmed secondary and primary qualities of the material world. Secondary qualities, including color and taste, do not exist apart from sensations; primary qualities exist irrespective of our knowledge. Berkeley denies this distinction, and holds that external objects exist only as t hey are perceived by a subject. Thus, the mind produces ideas, and these ideas are things; to be, then, is to be perceived. There are, however, two classes of ideas: (1) the less regular and coherent, arising in the imagination, and (2) the more vivid and permanent, learned by experience "imprinted on the senses by the Author of nature" which are the real things. According to Berkeley, matter is not an objective reality but a composition of sensible qualities existing in the mind. "No object exists apart from the mind; mind is therefore the deepest reality; it is the prius, both in thought and existence, if for a moment we assume the popular distinction between the two."
If you are interested in reading the dialogues that outline this thesis and give experiments that support this theory. Here they are. Bare in mind the dialogues are LONG, and rereading over various parts does help. Still they are for the most part put in a plain language and no attempt is used to hide behind hard sounding words a lack of understanding or intelligibility.
www.bartleby.com
www.bartleby.com
www.bartleby.com
Here is a quote from the beginning of them as is fitting of what to expect. Prepare to undergo a paradigm shift if you are fair and give due consideration to the dialogue.
QUOTE
Hyl. I was considering the odd fate of those men who have in all ages, through an affectation of being distinguished from the vulgar, or some unaccountable turn of thought, pretended either to believe nothing at all, or to believe the most extravagant things in the world. This however might be borne, if their paradoxes and scepticism did not draw after them some consequences of general disadvantage to mankind. But the mischief lieth here; that when men of less leisure see them who are supposed to have spent their whole time in the pursuits of knowledge professing an entire ignorance of all things, or advancing such notions as are repugnant to plain and commonly received principles, they will be tempted to entertain suspicions concerning the most important truths, which they had hitherto held sacred and unquestionable.
Phil. I entirely agree with you, as to the ill tendency of the affected doubts of some philosophers, and fantastical conceits of others. I am even so far gone of late in this way of thinking, that I have quitted several of the sublime notions I had got in their schools for vulgar opinions. And I give it you on my word; since this revolt from metaphysical notions to the plain dictates of nature and common sense, I find my understanding strangely enlightened, so that I can now easily comprehend a great many things which before were all mystery and riddle.
Hyl. I am glad to find there was nothing in the accounts I heard of you.
8
Phil. Pray, what were those?
Hyl. You were represented, in last night?s conversation, as one who maintained the most extravagant opinion that ever entered into the mind of man, to wit, that there is no such thing as material substance in the world.
Phil. That there is no such thing as what philosophers call material substance, I am seriously persuaded: but, if I were made to see anything absurd or sceptical in this, I should then have the same reason to renounce this that I imagine I have now to reject the contrary opinion.
Hyl. What I can anything be more fantastical, more repugnant to Common Sense, or a more manifest piece of Scepticism, than to believe there is no such thing as matter?
Downloading the freeware readplease will probably also ease the task.
www.readplease.com
Top
Phoenix Posted: Jan 31 2004, 04:45 PM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
QUOTE
There is another issue I must flag: This topic comes under "Time-Travel Theories". However, what we are supposed to discuss here is the TUE effect, which has nothing specific to do with time-travel.
I did ask Gavin about a subject just about theories. He did direct me to place them under here though. So here we are.
Top
bb boris Posted: Jan 31 2004, 05:19 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (Phoenix @ Jan 31 2004, 05:41 PM)
Your remarks remind me of the philosophy of "idealism" of George Berkeley. Interestingly it is the supposed lack of usefulness of such a philosophy that is responsible for it not being widely accepted, not so much as the logical grounds it is founded on in reasoning.
Wow! You must be a widely-read man, Phoenix.
This George Berkely really did hit on something. I shall read up on all this before commenting any more. But I agree with you that it is highly suggestive and interesting to learn that such a philosophy should have been neglected for its "lack of usefulness".
In a sense, this fact alone speaks volume on your current materialistic paradigm and the blinders it forces you all to wear, as well as the appropriateness of such a philosophy/worldview being a prerequisite to any workable utopia.
Thank you once again for enriching my culture, my friend.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
bb boris Posted: Jan 31 2004, 05:50 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (koaon @ Jan 31 2004, 04:10 PM)
Has there been any significant advances in the understanding of Newton's laws, or is it pretty much the same in your time as in ours?
From what I have seen both here and home, I don't think anyone has significantly developed Newton's laws. You see, it is with "science" and technology as it is with politics. We have kept everything, even ressucitated ancient discoveries, and added new ones. We have simply applied each one to its most appropriate environment. It's not so much an evolutionary process whereby the new preempts the old, but a holistic gathering and reassigning.
QUOTE
Although quantum physics manages to explain many things that newtonian laws cannot, it probably presents more questions than it does answers. It challenges many of our perceptions about reality and, taken to its extreme, sounds more like easterm mysticism than science.
Indeed. I have always taken this as proof that already there are signs that our future worldview is making itself felt.
QUOTE
For example, some quantum theories imply that particles are able to able to somehow communicate with each other instantaneously, even if seperated by vast distances, even many lightyears. This made people like Einstein very uncomfortable, since it directly contradicts his own theories that NOTHING can travel faster than the speed of light. Is "thought" the mechanism that makes this possible?
I believe it is as good a way as any of conceiving of the "mechanics" of Spiritual Energy", albeit incomplete. There is "Thought", yes, but also "Spirit". That dimension is in direct relation to our conscience, both in its general sense as awareness, but also as empathy, which in turn implies ethics and an aversion to wilfully causing harm. The latter could be seen as a prerequisite, without which you cannot "enter the kingdom" where Spiritual Energy grants you access to all those wonders. When you come down to it, our "science" has much in common with religious ethics. You will see why that is below.
QUOTE
My question here is similar to the one on newtonian physics. Are some aspects of quantum mechanics as we know it still being used or stu*****d in your time. What advances were made in quantum physics up to the point where the TUE effect was discovered? Are there any similarities between our quantum physics and your "quantics"?
I chuckle here. Because frankly, up to the time the TUE Effect was discovered, we were little more than wild, guilt-ridden and miserable beasts, eking out a pathetic living in the aftermath of Earth's near-destruction. We were more concerned with eating than with research. I do not think the TUE Effect was the result of lengthy research, but more a blinding revelation, sort of like the Ten Commandments, although no identified divinity was involved.
QUOTE
Also, our scientists are still looking for that illusive unifying theory that can explain everything on macroscopic and subatomic levels. Does Spiritual Energy accomplish this, or are your scientists now looking for a new unifying theory that incorparates newtonian laws, quantum physics AND spiritual energy?
Well yes, Humans will always be on a quest for tidiness. It must be in our nature biggrin.gif . The answer was as simple as it it was farfetched (to now). Unified means just that. So why did the seekers limit themselves to science exclusively? What kind of unified theory would that have been? No wonder they failed again and again. The answer lies in one word: everything.
That means scientific theory, theology, arts, politics to name the major ones. By combining the parameters of these apparently separate disciplines, absorbing data from our present and from the furthest antiquity, by cleansing our quest of all and every preconceptions, we began to visualize the key.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
Phoenix Posted: Feb 2 2004, 06:04 AM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
Boris,
Have you had sufficient time to review Berkeley?
If so what appraisals do you have on him, especially in what he suggests in his dialogues and how it may relate to your world view from your time period?
Top
Just Posted: Feb 2 2004, 04:50 PM
Newbie
Group: Members
Posts: 11
Member No.: 205
Joined: 1-January 04
What does the word "spiritual" mean here? (I don't like the word... it is commonly used with things which cannot be explained)
Top
bb boris Posted: Feb 2 2004, 06:02 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (Phoenix @ Feb 2 2004, 07:04 AM)
Boris,
Have you had sufficient time to review Berkeley?
I apologize, Phoenix, but I have been somewhat swamped recently, and I wish to give Berkely the time he seems to deserve.
Consider it to be on my "back burner" for the time being.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
Phoenix Posted: Feb 2 2004, 07:29 PM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
QUOTE (Just @ Feb 2 2004, 08:50 AM)
What does the word "spiritual" mean here? (I don't like the word... it is commonly used with things which cannot be explained)
Unfortunately, as Boris is the one who is to tell us what the TUE effect is about, I am unable to answer for him what he means by spiritual. Perhaps Boris may use that as a point to start explaining the concept better.
What my aversion to the word spiritual stems from is if I am trying to reason with someone and they start using the word spiritual as some sort of platform that makes them above the ability to reason. "I do not listen to the truths of this world. My truth is of a spiritual source." Often times such people have not even a clue what they themselves mean when they say such things. It is just suppose to be superior and it is definitely related to what ever belief system of religion they are being unreasonable about.
I hate such empty words so I take my cue from Plato and other sources and fill what I mean by spiritual with something that can actually be talked about. When I talk about spiritual I mean the self. I do not imply some self separate from who you are, I mean that which senses an identity, that which is capable of volution and reasoning. The thing that is seeing, hearing, feeling the world it finds itself in. Not the body, the self.
I believe values do aid in the capabilities of the self. I believe that certain willed activities such as courage, faith, hope, forgiveness, love, joy, wishes, and the search for wisdom all play a role in developing the self. There are other activities such as pettiness, criticism, aggression, fear, intolerance, ect that limit one's perspective and possibilities.
I too hate it when spiritual is given an empty meaning.
Top
bb boris Posted: Feb 2 2004, 10:53 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (Just @ Feb 2 2004, 05:50 PM)
What does the word "spiritual" mean here? (I don't like the word... it is commonly used with things which cannot be explained)
I understand, Just.
It is interesting, and somewhat sad, to read the comment you chose to attach to such a word as "spiritual", a comment subsequently echoed by Phoenix. It is sad for it highlights the pain and the spiritual vacuum that dominates this era so devoid of Humankind's noble sentiments. Do some of you natives ever stop and think, looking back on the past few millennia, and ask yourselves "What have we done? What is it about us that has wilfully destroyed the Eden we were bequeathed?" I'm convinced you have thought this, probably many times.
To my people, the answer to this riddle is simple: We have neglected our spiritual inheritance.
So much for history. In accordance with current thinking, you require a definition. I like what Phoenix wrote:
QUOTE
I take my cue from Plato and other sources and fill what I mean by spiritual with something that can actually be talked about. When I talk about spiritual I mean the self. I do not imply some self separate from who you are, I mean that which senses an identity, that which is capable of volution and reasoning. The thing that is seeing, hearing, feeling the world it finds itself in. Not the body, the self.
Let us take this as a basis. The essential is there, I need not add to it for I'm sure we understand each other. Then Phoenix went on to evoke applications of the Spirit:
QUOTE
I believe values do aid in the capabilities of the self. I believe that certain willed activities such as courage, faith, hope, forgiveness, love, joy, wishes, and the search for wisdom all play a role in developing the self.
So far, so good. Now please think of what the word Spirit meant to native Americans. Each manifestation of nature (the wind, fire, water etc) had a dedicated Spirit. Then consider how the words of Phoenix about spirit are focussed on the individual. What enabled us to access Spiritual energy was that we took those focussed views and applied them to our entire species.
Let us replay the words, applied to all of Humankind:
QUOTE
When I talk about spiritual I mean the self. I do not imply some self separate from who you are, I mean that which senses an identity, that which is capable of volution and reasoning.
Remember. This is the collective consciousness of billions of individuals talking. You cannot expect to conceive it as such, but I ask you to accept the concept as an abstract notion. "THAT WHICH SENSES AN IDENTITY". A species' identity, yes?Then we have:
QUOTE
The thing that is seeing, hearing, feeling the world it finds itself in
But the collective consciousness has no senses, as its individuals do. Rather, it has tremendous power. Power such that merely moving mountains is a mere flick of the finger. It has the power to preempt the physical laws governing inanimate "matter" (I put "matter" in quotes for on some deeper level, it too has some form of ethereal existence, which is precisely one of the factors that renders it subsurvient to Spiritual energy.). It has the power to make a mockery of the speed of light barrier. In its most extreme theorized form, Spiritual energy enables you to take the entire Universe in your hands.
But it isn't so simple. For every victory we have over "physics", a price has to be paid. But it is a nice price. It is Love. In other words, an "evil" person cannot even use his mind to turn on a light, which is something my people learn to do at age 3. This is why the TUE effect, founded upon Spiritual energy, can only function in its physical applications within a civilization that has evolved beyond the puerile errors of our species' infancy. That is why my instruments could not function in this spiritually-bankrupt era, and indeed began to dissolve within weeks of my arrival.
I hope I haven't been too obscure. Perhaps this is how Pythgoras felt when he used music to illustrate his mathematical concepts. Then again, the ancient Greek philosophers lived in a world closer to my own than this one.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
koaon Posted: Feb 3 2004, 11:40 PM
Time Travel Beginner
Group: Members
Posts: 39
Member No.: 331
Joined: 24-January 04
Boris,
Are you familiar with Sympathetic Vibratory Physics?
QUOTE
This wholistic merging of feeling, emotions, spirit, intuition, science, music, art and philosophy is based on the fact that everything in the universe vibrates and oscillates. Therefore the connecting link between all that there is is vibration. By studying and applying the principles of vibration we are enabled to see beyond material matter (effects) and into the very nature of the causative Forces of Nature operating by immutable Natural and Universal Laws. SVP empowers you to change and transform your life or develop new technologies.
koaon
Top
Just Posted: Feb 3 2004, 11:51 PM
Newbie
Group: Members
Posts: 11
Member No.: 205
Joined: 1-January 04
Pheonix - I basically agree with what you said. What you were describing as spirit is perhaps what makes humans different from an artificially intellegent computer system. It may not have been done yet, but it is almost certainly possible to create a computer/robot which would appear to behave exactly as humans do, but it would not be consious about its thoughts in the same way that humans are. It would be able to communicate with humans because it has been programed to do that, but it would not be able to "communicate" with itself.
Boris - What you said did seem a little unclear to me, but that is probably because the concept is complicated. It is interesting though. Also I've being listening to your songs - they are very good!
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
« Next Oldest | YOUR THEORIES? | Next Newest »
Topic OptionsPages: (2) [1] 2
- YOUR THEORIES?
Hosted for free by InvisionFree (Terms of Service: Updated 9/10/03) | Powered by Invision Power Board v1.3.0e © 2003 IPS, Inc.
Page creation time: 1.0109 seconds
Recommended Books/Videos! coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com
cover Buy from Amazon.com cover Buy from Amazon.com cover Buy from Amazon.com cover Buy from Amazon.com
· Forum Rules · Portal Help Search Members Calendar
Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register ) Resend Validation Email
Contact Us
Gavin (Admin): FAX/VOICEMAIL NUMBER: 1-309-4020-451, EMAIL: [email protected]
Search:
All Products
Keywords:
Go
The Time Travel Forum (http://www.TimeTravelForum.tk)->SCIENTIFIC TIME-TRAVEL THEORIES!!->YOUR THEORIES?
Pages: (2) [1] 2 ( Go to first unread post )
Tue Effect, For the benefit of Boris and Koaon
Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic
Phoenix Posted: Jan 31 2004, 12:47 AM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
QUOTE
QUOTE
Spiritual Energy, the TUE effect and their applications sounds fascinating, and although I understand you are reluctant to talk about them, I would love to hear more.
I would also love to write more. I am in no way reluctant, that is why I wrote a large book about it. But this topic is so long already, I must refrain from too much detail.
This section is for Boris and others who would like to hear about TUE technology.
Debunkers please post your posts in the debunker's echo. They will be deleted if you post them here.
Top
koaon Posted: Jan 31 2004, 09:44 AM
Time Travel Beginner
Group: Members
Posts: 39
Member No.: 331
Joined: 24-January 04
Phoenix, once again thank you for starting this thread.
A good starting point is probably the following quote from Boris, and I hope Boris is willing to go into a lot more detail.
QUOTE
I admit there are some differences with "Spiritual Energy". For a start, it is less obviously visible in its effects to most people than fire ever was. The best way to explain is to say that it taps into the infinite benefits to Humankind that were derived from the conceptualization of the TUE effect (Tiggered Ultra Ethereal) in the 26th century, from which derived the RMX drive, the Strapowac and many other "wonders". It is the mathematical articulation of thought as a dimension, and the subsequent utilization of this additional dimension in what you would refer to as applied physics. How it works is as simple as it is complex. Anyone nowadays can travel to Mars and back in the blink of an eye by simply imagining it. Oh, but that is "in one's mind" you will say, correctly. Correctly, yes, but only because you do not have the benefit of the TUE effect. Where I come from, this remark is as logical as to say that that which is heavier than air cannot fly, which statement was also for many millennia taken to be the most obvious logical, scientific fact, and this despite the existence of birds. I'm afraid I can't be anymore specific. There are conceptual gaps that only time can bridge.
Boris, you also said:
QUOTE
In my time, techological applications are based on the dimension of thought and on psychic energy. The fact that this cannot be explained in terms of current, limited scientific theory is unfortunate, mostly for you.
Fair enough, but wouldn't it be even more unfortunate if you don't even TRY to explain it. If not in terms of OUR current theories, then maybe in terms of YOURS.
Like yourself, I am no scientist, and I fully expect not to understand much of what is posted in this regard. But you must have realised by now that many people on this forum are extraordinarily open-minded, and wouldn't merely dismiss anything they don't understand.
All I ask is that you give us the same benefit of the doubt that we give you.
Regards
koaon
Top
bb boris Posted: Jan 31 2004, 12:07 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (koaon @ Jan 31 2004, 10:44 AM)
Like yourself, I am no scientist, and I fully expect not to understand much of what is posted in this regard. But you must have realised by now that many people on this forum are extraordinarily open-minded, and wouldn't merely dismiss anything they don't understand.
All I ask is that you give us the same benefit of the doubt that we give you.
I appreciate what you say, Koaon, and so I shall try my best.
One caveat. You do see that you are asking me no less than to attempt to communicate an elemental paradigm that I take for granted to people who, however intelligent and open-mided they be, are living within an entirely different paradigm. At such a level, it is not even a question of evolution, it is closer to being a question of alienness, like atttempting communication between different species with no common language.
Let me try and illustrate the difficulty: Consider that you are confident in what you understand of the Aristotelian/Newtonian/Relativity paradigms you live under, as have your forefathers for millennia. Although you know little of the theories underlying your world views (physics, empirical scientific method, quantum physics etc) you understand instinctively how the Universe works for you. Now then. You have in front of you a bright, eager Neanderthal for whom the world is peopled with spirits, and whose daily life is driven by survival impulses. He cannot even conceive of the physical recording of thoughts (writing), even less of the transmission of concepts (philosophical conversation). How do you proceed? I can assure you that my first eight years in this era were sheer hell for me. The only natives I could even begin to communicate with were occasional alcoholic vagrants I ran into, for many of them seemed to be beyond, or outside current thought patterns and acceptations. You cannot imagine the work it represented to absorb your way of seeing things. But I think I succeeded, although I paid a heavy price for it.
There is another issue I must flag: This topic comes under "Time-Travel Theories". However, what we are supposed to discuss here is the TUE effect, which has nothing specific to do with time-travel. It is as if we were discussing the theory of relativity in this section. Both that theory and the TUE effect do of course underlie the discussions taking place in this section, but time-travel is but a minute application of either.
Good. Those provisos being stated, I shall proceed. I assume that you have read the many references to the TUE effect in the "Greetings Earthlings" topic.
So I shall just begin with a quote from our Encyclopaedia:
QUOTE
TUE EFFECT
The acronym (pronounced Tyou) derives from "Triggered Ultra Ethereal" effect. A potent blend of the principles underlying spiritualism, quantum physics and ecologically-sensitive scientific research. The major conceptual discovery of modern times. Formulated by a Maori scientist in the twenty-sixth century, it marked the end of Humankind's post-exodus trauma and a new beginning. It spawned the harnessing of starwind power, a form of energy that gave us unlimited, clean energy - see STRAPOWAC (op. cit.), the RMX drive, which opened up the Galaxy and beyond, as well as countless applications such as subsignals (op. cit.), the instantaneous transmission of data from any part of the known Universe to any other.
Admittedly, a very bare definition, but there it is. I suspect that in my haste to transcribe elements from my database all those years ago I may have brought up the children's version.
Where to begin? You will have to help me, with specific questions I can grapple with. Let me just as an introduction try and describe my personal worldview, as it is perfectly congruent with life as it is back home:
I believe the Universe is large spiritual matrix. I like the image of a hive, only each and every component is equal and interchangeable, be it the bees, the walls, the trays and the air. All around it is activity, to infinity. There we find galaxies (and all "physical" manifestations), time itself and music. All this is linked together by Spiritual Energy. Bees have the ability to exit and enter the hive (more or less at will).
Currently, you are under the mistaken view that the hive is ethereal, and that the outside is "real". But in a way, it is the very opposite (insofar as anything is "real", of course). What the TUE Effect allows us to do is to exploit that awareness, and to even control it by implementing applications that are impossible according to your world view.
Hmmm. I'm getting a slight headache, so I shall leave it at that for now. Perhaps the best method would be for you to identify perspectives that would enable you to steer me into an approach that you would be comfortable with. In other words, as I wrote earlier, specific questions.
Even though I may be risking a major time paradox with all this, I promise you I shall hide nothing. After all, I feel like I belong here now, and I see no sense in trying to second-guess destiny.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
koaon Posted: Jan 31 2004, 03:10 PM
Time Travel Beginner
Group: Members
Posts: 39
Member No.: 331
Joined: 24-January 04
Boris, I am delighted that you have decided to take this further. I suspect that it will be as much of challenge for me as it will be for you.
All of your caveats, concerns and provisos are noted and understood, and I will agree to continue this discussion with that in mind.
You ask for specific questions. I trust I can rely on some of the other, more learned forum members to help me out here.
I would suggest though, that instead of diving head first into your world of TUE and Spiritual Energy, we first explore our world of Newtonian and quantum physics, and maybe arrive at some common ground.
Newtonian Physics:
Althouhg very useful in explaining the behaviour of objects at macroscopic level (dust particles, pool balls, planets, galaxies etc), is fairly useless in explaining anything at the subatomic level. From what I understand, newtonian physics is still used and stu*****d in your time. Has there been any significant advances in the understanding of Newton's laws, or is it pretty much the same in your time as in ours?
Quantum Physics:
Although quantum physics manages to explain many things that newtonian laws cannot, it probably presents more questions than it does answers. It challenges many of our perceptions about reality and, taken to its extreme, sounds more like easterm mysticism than science.
QUOTE
Consider that you are confident in what you understand of the Aristotelian/Newtonian/Relativity paradigms you live under, as have your forefathers for millennia. Although you know little of the theories underlying your world views (physics, empirical scientific method, quantum physics etc) you understand instinctively how the Universe works for you.
I'm not sure I agree with this. In fact, if anything, quantum physics teaches us how little we understand about our universe. For example, some quantum theories imply that particles are able to able to somehow communicate with each other instantaneously, even if seperated by vast distances, even many lightyears. This made people like Einstein very uncomfortable, since it directly contradicts his own theories that NOTHING can travel faster than the speed of light. Is "thought" the mechanism that makes this possible?
My question here is similar to the one on newtonian physics. Are some aspects of quantum mechanics as we know it still being used or stu*****d in your time. What advances were made in quantum physics up to the point where the TUE effect was discovered? Are there any similarities between our quantum physics and your "quantics"?
Also, our scientists are still looking for that illusive unifying theory that can explain everything on macroscopic and subatomic levels. Does Spiritual Energy accomplish this, or are your scientists now looking for a new unifying theory that incorparates newtonian laws, quantum physics AND spiritual energy?
I hope others will join this discussion as well, even if only to help me understand OUR current theories, let alone yours. I do urge everyone to take it SLOW, otherwise I fear constant headaches will also be my fate. biggrin.gif
Regards
koaon
Top
Phoenix Posted: Jan 31 2004, 04:41 PM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
QUOTE
I believe the Universe is large spiritual matrix. I like the image of a hive, only each and every component is equal and interchangeable, be it the bees, the walls, the trays and the air. All around it is activity, to infinity. There we find galaxies (and all "physical" manifestations), time itself and music. All this is linked together by Spiritual Energy. Bees have the ability to exit and enter the hive (more or less at will).
Currently, you are under the mistaken view that the hive is ethereal, and that the outside is "real". But in a way, it is the very opposite (insofar as anything is "real", of course). What the TUE Effect allows us to do is to exploit that awareness, and to even control it by implementing applications that are impossible according to your world view.
Your remarks remind me of the philosophy of "idealism" of George Berkeley. Interestingly it is the supposed lack of usefulness of such a philosophy that is responsible for it not being widely accepted, not so much as the logical grounds it is founded on in reasoning.
QUOTE
Berkeley's early theory of idealism -- the version now associated with his name -- is found in his Principles of Human Knowledge, and Three Dialogues Between Hylas and Philonous. In both of these Berkeley argues that no existence is conceivable (and therefore not possible) which is not either conscious spirit or the ideas (i.e. objects) of which such spirit is conscious. Locke affirmed secondary and primary qualities of the material world. Secondary qualities, including color and taste, do not exist apart from sensations; primary qualities exist irrespective of our knowledge. Berkeley denies this distinction, and holds that external objects exist only as t hey are perceived by a subject. Thus, the mind produces ideas, and these ideas are things; to be, then, is to be perceived. There are, however, two classes of ideas: (1) the less regular and coherent, arising in the imagination, and (2) the more vivid and permanent, learned by experience "imprinted on the senses by the Author of nature" which are the real things. According to Berkeley, matter is not an objective reality but a composition of sensible qualities existing in the mind. "No object exists apart from the mind; mind is therefore the deepest reality; it is the prius, both in thought and existence, if for a moment we assume the popular distinction between the two."
If you are interested in reading the dialogues that outline this thesis and give experiments that support this theory. Here they are. Bare in mind the dialogues are LONG, and rereading over various parts does help. Still they are for the most part put in a plain language and no attempt is used to hide behind hard sounding words a lack of understanding or intelligibility.
The First Dialogue - Collection at Bartleby.com
The First Dialogue PHILONOUS. Good morrow, Hylas: I did not expect to find you abroad so early. Hylas. It is indeed something unusual; but my thoughts were so taken up
www.bartleby.com
The Second Dialogue - Collection at Bartleby.com
The Second Dialogue HYLAS. I beg your pardon, Philonous, for not meeting you sooner. All this morning my head was so filled with our late conversation that I had not leisure
www.bartleby.com
The Third Dialogue - Collection at Bartleby.com
The Third Dialogue PHILONOUS. 1 Tell me, Hylas, what are the fruits of yesterday’s meditation? Has it confirmed you in the same mind you were in at parting? or have you
www.bartleby.com
Here is a quote from the beginning of them as is fitting of what to expect. Prepare to undergo a paradigm shift if you are fair and give due consideration to the dialogue.
QUOTE
Hyl. I was considering the odd fate of those men who have in all ages, through an affectation of being distinguished from the vulgar, or some unaccountable turn of thought, pretended either to believe nothing at all, or to believe the most extravagant things in the world. This however might be borne, if their paradoxes and scepticism did not draw after them some consequences of general disadvantage to mankind. But the mischief lieth here; that when men of less leisure see them who are supposed to have spent their whole time in the pursuits of knowledge professing an entire ignorance of all things, or advancing such notions as are repugnant to plain and commonly received principles, they will be tempted to entertain suspicions concerning the most important truths, which they had hitherto held sacred and unquestionable.
Phil. I entirely agree with you, as to the ill tendency of the affected doubts of some philosophers, and fantastical conceits of others. I am even so far gone of late in this way of thinking, that I have quitted several of the sublime notions I had got in their schools for vulgar opinions. And I give it you on my word; since this revolt from metaphysical notions to the plain dictates of nature and common sense, I find my understanding strangely enlightened, so that I can now easily comprehend a great many things which before were all mystery and riddle.
Hyl. I am glad to find there was nothing in the accounts I heard of you.
8
Phil. Pray, what were those?
Hyl. You were represented, in last night?s conversation, as one who maintained the most extravagant opinion that ever entered into the mind of man, to wit, that there is no such thing as material substance in the world.
Phil. That there is no such thing as what philosophers call material substance, I am seriously persuaded: but, if I were made to see anything absurd or sceptical in this, I should then have the same reason to renounce this that I imagine I have now to reject the contrary opinion.
Hyl. What I can anything be more fantastical, more repugnant to Common Sense, or a more manifest piece of Scepticism, than to believe there is no such thing as matter?
Downloading the freeware readplease will probably also ease the task.
www.readplease.com
Top
Phoenix Posted: Jan 31 2004, 04:45 PM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
QUOTE
There is another issue I must flag: This topic comes under "Time-Travel Theories". However, what we are supposed to discuss here is the TUE effect, which has nothing specific to do with time-travel.
I did ask Gavin about a subject just about theories. He did direct me to place them under here though. So here we are.
Top
bb boris Posted: Jan 31 2004, 05:19 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (Phoenix @ Jan 31 2004, 05:41 PM)
Your remarks remind me of the philosophy of "idealism" of George Berkeley. Interestingly it is the supposed lack of usefulness of such a philosophy that is responsible for it not being widely accepted, not so much as the logical grounds it is founded on in reasoning.
Wow! You must be a widely-read man, Phoenix.
This George Berkely really did hit on something. I shall read up on all this before commenting any more. But I agree with you that it is highly suggestive and interesting to learn that such a philosophy should have been neglected for its "lack of usefulness".
In a sense, this fact alone speaks volume on your current materialistic paradigm and the blinders it forces you all to wear, as well as the appropriateness of such a philosophy/worldview being a prerequisite to any workable utopia.
Thank you once again for enriching my culture, my friend.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
bb boris Posted: Jan 31 2004, 05:50 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (koaon @ Jan 31 2004, 04:10 PM)
Has there been any significant advances in the understanding of Newton's laws, or is it pretty much the same in your time as in ours?
From what I have seen both here and home, I don't think anyone has significantly developed Newton's laws. You see, it is with "science" and technology as it is with politics. We have kept everything, even ressucitated ancient discoveries, and added new ones. We have simply applied each one to its most appropriate environment. It's not so much an evolutionary process whereby the new preempts the old, but a holistic gathering and reassigning.
QUOTE
Although quantum physics manages to explain many things that newtonian laws cannot, it probably presents more questions than it does answers. It challenges many of our perceptions about reality and, taken to its extreme, sounds more like easterm mysticism than science.
Indeed. I have always taken this as proof that already there are signs that our future worldview is making itself felt.
QUOTE
For example, some quantum theories imply that particles are able to able to somehow communicate with each other instantaneously, even if seperated by vast distances, even many lightyears. This made people like Einstein very uncomfortable, since it directly contradicts his own theories that NOTHING can travel faster than the speed of light. Is "thought" the mechanism that makes this possible?
I believe it is as good a way as any of conceiving of the "mechanics" of Spiritual Energy", albeit incomplete. There is "Thought", yes, but also "Spirit". That dimension is in direct relation to our conscience, both in its general sense as awareness, but also as empathy, which in turn implies ethics and an aversion to wilfully causing harm. The latter could be seen as a prerequisite, without which you cannot "enter the kingdom" where Spiritual Energy grants you access to all those wonders. When you come down to it, our "science" has much in common with religious ethics. You will see why that is below.
QUOTE
My question here is similar to the one on newtonian physics. Are some aspects of quantum mechanics as we know it still being used or stu*****d in your time. What advances were made in quantum physics up to the point where the TUE effect was discovered? Are there any similarities between our quantum physics and your "quantics"?
I chuckle here. Because frankly, up to the time the TUE Effect was discovered, we were little more than wild, guilt-ridden and miserable beasts, eking out a pathetic living in the aftermath of Earth's near-destruction. We were more concerned with eating than with research. I do not think the TUE Effect was the result of lengthy research, but more a blinding revelation, sort of like the Ten Commandments, although no identified divinity was involved.
QUOTE
Also, our scientists are still looking for that illusive unifying theory that can explain everything on macroscopic and subatomic levels. Does Spiritual Energy accomplish this, or are your scientists now looking for a new unifying theory that incorparates newtonian laws, quantum physics AND spiritual energy?
Well yes, Humans will always be on a quest for tidiness. It must be in our nature biggrin.gif . The answer was as simple as it it was farfetched (to now). Unified means just that. So why did the seekers limit themselves to science exclusively? What kind of unified theory would that have been? No wonder they failed again and again. The answer lies in one word: everything.
That means scientific theory, theology, arts, politics to name the major ones. By combining the parameters of these apparently separate disciplines, absorbing data from our present and from the furthest antiquity, by cleansing our quest of all and every preconceptions, we began to visualize the key.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
Phoenix Posted: Feb 2 2004, 06:04 AM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
Boris,
Have you had sufficient time to review Berkeley?
If so what appraisals do you have on him, especially in what he suggests in his dialogues and how it may relate to your world view from your time period?
Top
Just Posted: Feb 2 2004, 04:50 PM
Newbie
Group: Members
Posts: 11
Member No.: 205
Joined: 1-January 04
What does the word "spiritual" mean here? (I don't like the word... it is commonly used with things which cannot be explained)
Top
bb boris Posted: Feb 2 2004, 06:02 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (Phoenix @ Feb 2 2004, 07:04 AM)
Boris,
Have you had sufficient time to review Berkeley?
I apologize, Phoenix, but I have been somewhat swamped recently, and I wish to give Berkely the time he seems to deserve.
Consider it to be on my "back burner" for the time being.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
Phoenix Posted: Feb 2 2004, 07:29 PM
Time Travel Super Expert
Group Icon
Group: Moderating Team
Posts: 1,996
Member No.: 21
Joined: 12-May 03
QUOTE (Just @ Feb 2 2004, 08:50 AM)
What does the word "spiritual" mean here? (I don't like the word... it is commonly used with things which cannot be explained)
Unfortunately, as Boris is the one who is to tell us what the TUE effect is about, I am unable to answer for him what he means by spiritual. Perhaps Boris may use that as a point to start explaining the concept better.
What my aversion to the word spiritual stems from is if I am trying to reason with someone and they start using the word spiritual as some sort of platform that makes them above the ability to reason. "I do not listen to the truths of this world. My truth is of a spiritual source." Often times such people have not even a clue what they themselves mean when they say such things. It is just suppose to be superior and it is definitely related to what ever belief system of religion they are being unreasonable about.
I hate such empty words so I take my cue from Plato and other sources and fill what I mean by spiritual with something that can actually be talked about. When I talk about spiritual I mean the self. I do not imply some self separate from who you are, I mean that which senses an identity, that which is capable of volution and reasoning. The thing that is seeing, hearing, feeling the world it finds itself in. Not the body, the self.
I believe values do aid in the capabilities of the self. I believe that certain willed activities such as courage, faith, hope, forgiveness, love, joy, wishes, and the search for wisdom all play a role in developing the self. There are other activities such as pettiness, criticism, aggression, fear, intolerance, ect that limit one's perspective and possibilities.
I too hate it when spiritual is given an empty meaning.
Top
bb boris Posted: Feb 2 2004, 10:53 PM
May the Love be with you
Group: Members
Posts: 263
Member No.: 154
Joined: 4-December 03
QUOTE (Just @ Feb 2 2004, 05:50 PM)
What does the word "spiritual" mean here? (I don't like the word... it is commonly used with things which cannot be explained)
I understand, Just.
It is interesting, and somewhat sad, to read the comment you chose to attach to such a word as "spiritual", a comment subsequently echoed by Phoenix. It is sad for it highlights the pain and the spiritual vacuum that dominates this era so devoid of Humankind's noble sentiments. Do some of you natives ever stop and think, looking back on the past few millennia, and ask yourselves "What have we done? What is it about us that has wilfully destroyed the Eden we were bequeathed?" I'm convinced you have thought this, probably many times.
To my people, the answer to this riddle is simple: We have neglected our spiritual inheritance.
So much for history. In accordance with current thinking, you require a definition. I like what Phoenix wrote:
QUOTE
I take my cue from Plato and other sources and fill what I mean by spiritual with something that can actually be talked about. When I talk about spiritual I mean the self. I do not imply some self separate from who you are, I mean that which senses an identity, that which is capable of volution and reasoning. The thing that is seeing, hearing, feeling the world it finds itself in. Not the body, the self.
Let us take this as a basis. The essential is there, I need not add to it for I'm sure we understand each other. Then Phoenix went on to evoke applications of the Spirit:
QUOTE
I believe values do aid in the capabilities of the self. I believe that certain willed activities such as courage, faith, hope, forgiveness, love, joy, wishes, and the search for wisdom all play a role in developing the self.
So far, so good. Now please think of what the word Spirit meant to native Americans. Each manifestation of nature (the wind, fire, water etc) had a dedicated Spirit. Then consider how the words of Phoenix about spirit are focussed on the individual. What enabled us to access Spiritual energy was that we took those focussed views and applied them to our entire species.
Let us replay the words, applied to all of Humankind:
QUOTE
When I talk about spiritual I mean the self. I do not imply some self separate from who you are, I mean that which senses an identity, that which is capable of volution and reasoning.
Remember. This is the collective consciousness of billions of individuals talking. You cannot expect to conceive it as such, but I ask you to accept the concept as an abstract notion. "THAT WHICH SENSES AN IDENTITY". A species' identity, yes?Then we have:
QUOTE
The thing that is seeing, hearing, feeling the world it finds itself in
But the collective consciousness has no senses, as its individuals do. Rather, it has tremendous power. Power such that merely moving mountains is a mere flick of the finger. It has the power to preempt the physical laws governing inanimate "matter" (I put "matter" in quotes for on some deeper level, it too has some form of ethereal existence, which is precisely one of the factors that renders it subsurvient to Spiritual energy.). It has the power to make a mockery of the speed of light barrier. In its most extreme theorized form, Spiritual energy enables you to take the entire Universe in your hands.
But it isn't so simple. For every victory we have over "physics", a price has to be paid. But it is a nice price. It is Love. In other words, an "evil" person cannot even use his mind to turn on a light, which is something my people learn to do at age 3. This is why the TUE effect, founded upon Spiritual energy, can only function in its physical applications within a civilization that has evolved beyond the puerile errors of our species' infancy. That is why my instruments could not function in this spiritually-bankrupt era, and indeed began to dissolve within weeks of my arrival.
I hope I haven't been too obscure. Perhaps this is how Pythgoras felt when he used music to illustrate his mathematical concepts. Then again, the ancient Greek philosophers lived in a world closer to my own than this one.
--------------------
Did you ever wonder what your descendants in the far future will think of you?
Find out @ This site is under development
Top
koaon Posted: Feb 3 2004, 11:40 PM
Time Travel Beginner
Group: Members
Posts: 39
Member No.: 331
Joined: 24-January 04
Boris,
Are you familiar with Sympathetic Vibratory Physics?
QUOTE
This wholistic merging of feeling, emotions, spirit, intuition, science, music, art and philosophy is based on the fact that everything in the universe vibrates and oscillates. Therefore the connecting link between all that there is is vibration. By studying and applying the principles of vibration we are enabled to see beyond material matter (effects) and into the very nature of the causative Forces of Nature operating by immutable Natural and Universal Laws. SVP empowers you to change and transform your life or develop new technologies.
koaon
Top
Just Posted: Feb 3 2004, 11:51 PM
Newbie
Group: Members
Posts: 11
Member No.: 205
Joined: 1-January 04
Pheonix - I basically agree with what you said. What you were describing as spirit is perhaps what makes humans different from an artificially intellegent computer system. It may not have been done yet, but it is almost certainly possible to create a computer/robot which would appear to behave exactly as humans do, but it would not be consious about its thoughts in the same way that humans are. It would be able to communicate with humans because it has been programed to do that, but it would not be able to "communicate" with itself.
Boris - What you said did seem a little unclear to me, but that is probably because the concept is complicated. It is interesting though. Also I've being listening to your songs - they are very good!
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
« Next Oldest | YOUR THEORIES? | Next Newest »
Topic OptionsPages: (2) [1] 2
- YOUR THEORIES?
Hosted for free by InvisionFree (Terms of Service: Updated 9/10/03) | Powered by Invision Power Board v1.3.0e © 2003 IPS, Inc.
Page creation time: 1.0109 seconds
Recommended Books/Videos! coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com coverBuy from Amazon.com
cover Buy from Amazon.com cover Buy from Amazon.com cover Buy from Amazon.com cover Buy from Amazon.com
Last edited by a moderator: