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Judge Bean

Senior Member
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Originally posted by TheHeggy@Aug 30 2004, 07:30 PM
So what if you owned no land? Would you turn into a foreigner?

You don't need any land, or other kind of property. It's what they call a "legal fiction," like a fair trial.
 

TimeWizardCosmo

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Zenith
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That doesn't sound so bad.... When things start going to hell, people might start BEGGING for that.... If they owned land.
 

CaryP

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Originally posted by TheHeggy@Aug 30 2004, 03:11 PM
That doesn't sound so bad.... When things start going to hell, people might start BEGGING for that.... If they owned land.

The problem with being designated as a "foreign nation" under Patriot II is you're designated as an "enemy foreign nation" and would be arrested as such, with the accompanying loss of rights. Not a "good" thing, land or not. Careful what you wish for there Heggy.

Cary
 

PyRo99

Active Member
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567
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Patriot Act II. While yes, it can suspend our rights, yes it does impede upon some, when it was amended, it serves a purpose far greater than we can see. We only can forsee, from what the news tells us and what other websites correlating to terrorism and other such matters.

Terrorism is comparable to baseball. I think it was Clinton that said this around the Democratic National Convention in Boston this year, he said "Terrorism is like a baseball game, you aren't recognized for the saves, but its your fault when you lose". Something along those lines, i'm paraphrasing because I don't have the direct quote before myself.

Yes we are on the brink of World War III. Anyone with half a brain can tell this, well except Jessica Simpson. If we get nuked by these terrorists who sold the nuke to them? As soon as we answer that question, we'll be sending a nuke over to their front porch for a nice greeting from the USA. More than likely, it'll be Russia.

Also, notice how the terrorism warnings are going up and up? How NYC could just go to RED on their free-will? Red is reserved for an actual attack happening, so if we ever go to Orange, then we are at a great succeptability of getting attacked. Right now, we stand at Yellow.

When Bush started to screw everything up? Blame it all on the Bush Administration. Just blame it on him, nothing can ever go back to the terrorists, its justified for them, they declared "Jihad". We are playing exactly into what they want. They want us all to turn against one another so that we fight one another, more or less just like we are right now.

Why didn't the UK drop us? Why hasn't Italy dropped us as well? Obviously there is something that we cannot see, that is hidden behind the veil that we call the "government". Don't you think there is a reason? And no, it is not just pure intimidation that we are pushing on countries to join us, look at France, biggest twerps on the planet, cry for help when they're getting attacked, but when someone goes on the offensive, "Thats just plain old wrong get out of there". Give me a break, we kicked the Germans out of your damn country, and then look what you do but yet again, show no gratitude you arrogant sons of guns. <---BIG IMO (NO OFFENSE TO FRENCH PEOPLE).

Then you have the election this year within the USA. This has got to be one of the biggest fiascos I've ever seen on my 16 years on this Earth. The Republicans screaming at the Democrats "BABY KILLERS". And the Democrats yelling back at the Republicans "Right wing nut job!". Where does it end? Will it possibly end after this election? Or will the tensions grow even more, and make a big division within this country, something has got to give.

Where does the hate even end? Not even only the Terrorists hate the USA now, christ, most of us hate our damn government. The hate, and animosity, arrogance from all sides, is brewing in a pot that is about to overflow.

The Declaration of Independance, and the United States Consitution. The two things, that got this country going. When the Declaration of Independance was sent to England and received. How do you think the English reaction was? Remeber what it took to overcome the English? Unison.

I forget who said it and I am paraphrasing but yet again. "A Nation Divided Will Fall, a nation united will stand strong". I believe that was Abraham Lincoln saying that during the Civil War, i am not sure though, but thats besides the point. The Point i am trying to stress, is that we are divided. Politics, Beliefs etc etc. We are a multicultural country, and yet most of us don't even know a damn thing about another religion, or culture.

Pyro.
 

TimeWizardCosmo

Senior Member
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As much as we would like ourselves to become united.... It's most likely not going to happen. Many many people in the US are extremely self involved.

I bet you anything that when the shyte DOES hit the fan, MILLIONS of people are going to go "Where the hell did that come from?", simply because they were too busy getting worked up over homosexual marriages and listening to Britney.

We need a clean slate. The country needs to be redesigned, the forces that be need to step down so we can start fresh. As I said in another thread, "America needs to change it's diaper."

It's too bad that things have gotten to the state that they're in. Much of these problems are not Bush's fault, but are the faults of over 40 years or so of intense corruption. Things really started going downhill after JFK was killed.

Someone (or many people) in our administration (the CIA?) is pulling strings here and there to weave some shadowy tapestry for themselves and their toadies. What's it going to take to get America back to the way it should be? Back to the way our forefathers envisioned it?

I doubt that even everyone uniting will fix THAT problem.
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
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Patriot Act II. While yes, it can suspend our rights, yes it does impede upon some, when it was amended, it serves a purpose far greater than we can see. We only can forsee, from what the news tells us and what other websites correlating to terrorism and other such matters. PyRo99

Actually, the original version of the PA II was kept tightly under wraps and leaked on the internet. While I was printing out my version, Ashcroft was in Congress swearing that there was no such thing as the PA II.

The publicity apparently squelched it. It was subsequently cut down to just the provisions they could slip through as "riders" on another bill (sponsored by Cucinich). The bill was routed through Congress without debate and signed into law without fanfare on Dec. 13, 2003, the day that Saddam's capture was big in the news. The only immediate reference to the truncated PA II having become law was a White House press release, which was soon deleted from the web site.

The purpose of the PA II was to broaden PA I to an almost Alice in Wonderland scope. The provision allowing the Justice Dept to declare a suspect a foreign nation is the strangest example. It was done to allow a loophole to the "enemy alien" laws, which exempt citizens from prosecution.

The parts that went through have chiefly to do with investigations into financial records; but banks and others are now prohibited by law from telling the investigated party that the snooping was even done.

The only "greater purpose" concealed in such legislation is the intent to deprive Americans of their Constitutional rights in order to aid in police work. The police work they have in mind is the suppression of dissent. Even if they do not have this specifically in mind, they have opened the door for it to be easily done in the future.

Please don't take my word for it; go read the Patriot Acts.

If you can find them anywhere.
 

HackimerRob

Member
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391
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"People don't know, don't care, don't care to know, and will get mad at you and blame you for trying to inform them. "
Why is this? Is it because it's just too hard for people to want to accept the facts? I think so, and that was evident to me allready in the reactions to the speeches last night.
I saw in the crowd a man holding up a sign that said "COURAGEOUS NATION" and his face was half hidden by the sign. It was such a fitting picture representative of the regime it made me want to barf.
If something does POP, I know I'm not going to be surprised.
 

CaryP

Senior Member
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1,432
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Actually, the original version of the PA II was kept tightly under wraps and leaked on the internet. While I was printing out my version, Ashcroft was in Congress swearing that there was no such thing as the PA II.

The publicity apparently squelched it. It was subsequently cut down to just the provisions they could slip through as \"riders\" on another bill (sponsored by Cucinich). The bill was routed through Congress without debate and signed into law without fanfare on Dec. 13, 2003, the day that Saddam's capture was big in the news. The only immediate reference to the truncated PA II having become law was a White House press release, which was soon deleted from the web site.

The purpose of the PA II was to broaden PA I to an almost Alice in Wonderland scope. The provision allowing the Justice Dept to declare a suspect a foreign nation is the strangest example. It was done to allow a loophole to the \"enemy alien\" laws, which exempt citizens from prosecution.

The parts that went through have chiefly to do with investigations into financial records; but banks and others are now prohibited by law from telling the investigated party that the snooping was even done.

Uh, yeah. I remember the video of Bush signing the PA II. No one was in the room, very quiet with no fanfare, unlike the tax cut bill he had signed the week before with a circus like atmosphere. All the publicity of Saddam's capture took the spotlight off King George that day as he signed our rights away.

I can't believe we have an honest judiciary any more. Why wasn't PA I and II struck down from the get go.

As to the financial info. the federales can get on you now, it's incredible. I get numerous requests per week on parties sought after by all of the alphabet agencies. We have to drop everything and go through their lists, and no you can't contact anyone who shows up on the requests. Hell, you can't disclose the info. to anyone, period. Fines and possible imprisonment would follow. Thank God, we only have honest Americans for clients - nobody we know has ever shown up on the requests.

The really ironic thing about the PA's is they are about as UN-patriotic as can be. Suck, sucks, suckage to the max.

Cary
 

CaryP

Senior Member
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1,432
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Originally posted by Hackimer@ Rob,Aug 31 2004, 04:25 PM
\"People don't know, don't care, don't care to know, and will get mad at you and blame you for trying to inform them. \"
Why is this? Is it because it's just too hard for people to want to accept the facts? I think so, and that was evident to me allready in the reactions to the speeches last night.
I saw in the crowd a man holding up a sign that said \"COURAGEOUS NATION\" and his face was half hidden by the sign. It was such a fitting picture representative of the regime it made me want to barf.
If something does POP, I know I'm not going to be surprised.

Rob,

The denial runs deep. No one wants to upset the "I bought a house, refi'd my mortgage, got a steady job, bought an SUV, and loaded up with debt at the Fed's advice" apple cart. Complacency on top of denial will be our undoing. But that's the reaction I get down here - a lot.

Glad to see you had a great event and got through it unscathed.

Cary
 

Grayson

Conspiracy Cafe
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1,117
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Originally posted by PyRo99@Aug 31 2004, 02:42 AM


Why didn't the UK drop us? Why hasn't Italy dropped us as well? Obviously there is something that we cannot see, that is hidden behind the veil that we call the \"government\". Don't you think there is a reason? And no, it is not just pure intimidation that we are pushing on countries to join us, look at France, biggest twerps on the planet, cry for help when they're getting attacked, but when someone goes on the offensive, \"Thats just plain old wrong get out of there\". Give me a break, we kicked the Germans out of your damn country, and then look what you do but yet again, show no gratitude you arrogant sons of guns. <---BIG IMO (NO OFFENSE TO FRENCH PEOPLE).


Errmmm, no you didn't. That kind of language is probably the reason that so many Nations are peeved at the US... and its arrogance. ;)
 

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