Waco Event. What Could It Be?

[Smooth-Operator]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

Regardless of whether Koresh was a wacko or not and regardless as to whether the Govt. was right or not in their handling of the "Waco event", the question is--
What are we looking for exactly when JT talks of "A Waco Event?"

Is it another boarded up cult tear gassed by the Govt.? The Govt. taking shots at people stockpiling guns and ammo? What???? 'oh:

I believe he has left us some clues.

But first, lemme take you down memory lane to the general facts of the "EVENT"

[/U]Chronology of a showdown

Vernon Howell was an aspiring rock guitarist who became the charismatic leader of the Branch Davidian sect, an offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventists. The Branch Davidians, an apocalyptic Christian sect founded by Ben and Lois Roden in the 1930s, believed a new Messiah would arrive, as prophesied in the Bible, and that his arrival would signify the beginning of the "Last Days." Howell joined the Branch Davidians in 1981 and was quickly in good graces with Lois, the head of the church. She died in 1986 and Howell was left in control.

By 1990 he had changed his name to David Koresh and had settled with more than a hundred followers in a compound called Mount Carmel, ten miles outside of Waco, Texas. Federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) tried to execute a warrant for Koresh on February 28, 1993, part of an investigation into allegations of illegal weapons and child abuse.

A shoot-out ensued that left ten dead: four BATF agents and six Branch Davidians. Koresh and his followers holed up in their compound and a confused state of negotiations went on for 51 days, ending on April 19, 1993 when the compound burned to the ground, killing Koresh and 74 followers, including 21 children. Although a special investigation by the U. S. Justice Department exonerated the government, the debate over who started the fire goes on.

Follow this link with detailed info ------> All About The Waco Event

Here are the clues I'm talking about and you guys can stir those around any way you choose. :devil:
Koresh was paranoid about the government as the agent of Satan
Koresh' had stated once that they would be attacked by the Babylonians

But most interestingly enough
But , Koresh, eing the leader of a Religious cult, I looked up what the signs of a dangerous cult was and here's what I found

THE WARNING SIGNS:

1. The spiritual group claims to have received special instructions from one or more "messengers from the sky."

2. The spiritual group uses a special set of rules that you must obey or be cast out.

3. The spiritual group promises eternal life in a paradise if you obey its set of rules, and threatens eternal suffering if you do not obey its set of rules.

4. The spiritual group demands that you give up as much of your assests and your yearly income to it as possible.

5. The members of the spiritual group call each other "brother" and "sister," even when they aren?t related at all.

6. The spiritual group is led by a group of enlightened masters who wear strange clothes and speak in esoteric parables.

7. The spiritual group demands that you accept its teachings without reservation, even when those teachings are in direct conflict with your understanding of basic scientific knowledge.

8. The spiritual group demands that you select your spouse and your closest friends from its membership.

9. The spiritual group demands that you place your children in its training program.

10. The spiritual group teaches that giving up your life for the sake of the spiritual group may become necessary sometime in the future.

Now if you take out the 1st few words "The spiritual group" and replace it with "The republican Party", it seems rather frightening.


@);- ~Smooth ~ @);-

 

[Darkwolf]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

Ok, you forgot a couple of things about the incident.

#1 The BATF agents conducted a military assult, not a law enforcement raid. They went in armed with automatic weapons, fragmentation grenades (those things on their tac gear were not flashbangs) They had armed air support. If the agents did not in fact fire first, they went into the situation intending that a shoot out would happen. There is a name for this in the BATF "Boot and Shoot raid" They clearly intended to kill at least some of their subjects rather than arrest them. That was common practice during the Clinton era.

#2 The government used military vehicles and heavy weapons to end the standoff. The gas they fired into the compound was known to be highly flamable and produce hydrogen cyanide when burned. It was launched with a pyrotechnic device. This shows again an intent to kill rather than arrest resistors.

#3 The government launched a massive propaganda campaign demonizing the Dividians. The allagations of child abuse were never mentioned untill after the first raid was botched, and then never came up agiain once the situation was resolved. The origional warrent was for failure to pay a $200 tax stamp on a short rifle. They used the media to make sure that their targets recieved no public support. Other potential resistors however got the real message loud and clear.

I think the event was clearly an attempt to intimadate potential resistors rather than an attempt to enforce any law.

 

[Smooth-Operator]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

Oh No DarkWolf, I didn't forget- you're right on board.

There's IS a LOT to it. And the propaganda NO doubt was a factor. Just like the Propaganda a media campaign that's going on today in general.




Smooth @);-

 

[Darkwolf]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

Now if you take out the 1st few words \"The spiritual group\" and replace it with \"The republican Party\", it seems rather frightening.

You could say the Democratic party for that one too, or any major religion on earth.

 

[Smooth-Operator]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

Originally posted by Darkwolf@Nov 6 2004, 05:52 PM

Now if you take out the 1st few words \"The spiritual group\" and replace it with \"The republican Party\", it seems rather frightening.

You could say the Democratic party for that one too, or any major religion on earth.

​

DarkWolf, ARE you a govt. Troll?

I am a christian. Does that make me a cultist?

Obviously you think so.

I am trying to pull out some REASONABLE ways we can interpret what JT was talking about.

I have NEVER in my life been so scared of our Govt as I am now.
I am not afraid of God, nor the Dems- although I believe they have gotten careless and stupid.

SO, DW, Are you gonna discuss Waco connections with whats going on now or
are you going to troll?

Smooth

 

[Darkwolf]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

DarkWolf, ARE you a govt. Troll?

Not even slightly.

I am a christian. Does that make me a cultist?

Obviously you think so.

Not to me, however which religion is a cult and which are legitimate depends on how big they are. In the beginning of the Christian movement they were considered every bit as crazy and potentially dangerous as the Davidians. I wasn't trying to make a value judgement there, just trying to expand on a good point you made.

have NEVER in my life been so scared of our Govt as I am now.
I am not afraid of God, nor the Dems- although I believe they have gotten careless and stupid.

I have, During the Clinton years, these boot and shoot raids happened fairly regurly. Though rarely as big as waco. As an \"angry white male\" with strong pollitical views, I was at least as afraid of the government then.

SO, DW, Are you gonna discuss Waco connections with whats going on now or
are you going to troll?

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to take anything the way you did. Now, do you have a working definition of a waco event?

 

[Snow]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

My definition: The (now) Legal ability of the federal government to violate the constitutional rights of any citizen or group of citizens it feels threated by. The government is now an entity of it's own, with rights of its own that, we, the people, didn't give it. Homeland Security is an up and coming, ongoing, in your face, Waco-type event. The federal government taking unconstitional action against citizens. Excess and unwarranted force. Taking the States' own juridictions out of the States control. Use of the Military against citizens. The Patriot Acts and Homeland Security are the new licenses of the federal goverment to violate us all. It is happening in small ways everywhere and can happen in a big way anywhere.

Just a matter of "time".

Sigh . . . ok . . . perhaps we need a shorter definition.

Help!

SFW

 

[Darkwolf]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

Ok, I'd say it is a pollitically motivated attack on a dissident citizen's group where the citizen's group resists with armed force. and to sound technical one or more of the following factors are present.

#1 The government conducts the raid in a way that makes it clear that they are trying to kill the dissidents not arrest them and bring them before a jury of their peers.

#2 The government uses heavy weapons, armored vehicles, attack aircraft or other things formerly reserved for our forign enemies.

#3 The government uses any non lethal mass weapon in such a way that they must have known or should have known would make it lethal.

#4 The government uses a heavy propaganda campaign to demonize their targets. (look for rural groups to be dubbed "white supremicist" alot. In fact look at what is being said about Ranch Rescue, and other border defense groups right now.)

 

[Snow]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

OK - but I think "resists with armed force" is not a requirement of the classification. As we know even pacifist organizations are infiltrated and investigated and subject to action. Dissidents yes - violent resistors no.

Just a small tweak?

SFw

 

[Darkwolf]

Waco Event. What Could It Be?

Actually snow, what we are watching for are signposts on the road to armed conflict. This requires both tyranny and armed resistance to it. Pacifist orginazations are largly irrelevent in the face of a regime which is willing to use whatever force is nessisary.