Was Jesus born with Original Sin?

Classicalfan626

Visionary
Zenith
Messages
4,025
Jesus did not love those he whipped before the temple.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, Jesus never whipped anyone. I also recall that Jesus said people should love their enemies. If that's the case, I'm sure Jesus loved everyone, except maybe Satan. There's an old saying that goes, "Practice what you preach."
 

steven chiverton

Senior Member
Messages
3,950
heres something helpfull
A religious war or holy war (Latin: bellum sacrum) is a war primarily caused or justified by differences in religion. ... According to the Encyclopedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known/recorded historical conflicts, 123, or 6.98%, had religion as their primary cause the amount of that is high . different nationalities different beliefs different different religions. if the real bible was correct then every bible on earth will be the same word for word but why do they call the tower of babylon that name because everyone babled a different language so there religion and beliefs all different . so would the mistranslations of the bible and misinterpretations to . no need to preach that it comes from the information superhighway and what others say but alex collier was right and it matches or is confirmed by the alien in the alien interview in the roswell revisited video on youtube so id trust the information given to man from aliens who know more about us than we know about ourselves, id trust tha aliens than the bible created to keep man at peace with each other rather than use it wrongly in religious wars t the very beginning we was from the stars yes and we were beings who genetically created life and brought it to other planets so these being were considered gods because they created life and we are them we are just imprisoned in a biological body on earth buy an ancient race named the domain, you can listen to dolores cannons videos to before she died it adds up
 
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alpha centauri

Active Member
Messages
896
I repeat with evidence you deny.


The Original Meaning Of Original Sin

‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

We are done if you refuse bonifide evidence.

I am here if you want to switch to moral issues.
That is an internet site, that says something. That is not a proof. You have to proof it with quotes of religious books and show the difference. But you cant, because they use the same stories and same books. The Christian also have the New Testament. So you have to show that Jesus or somebody else abolished this concept of the Old Testament and made new laws. Has he done this?

Christians or Jews can rename the concept as often as they want, but it remains the same concept. Original Virtue sounds better than Original Sin. But it does not matter. You can call it original sin or original virtue or karma. It means that your ancestors bequest their fate or characteristics upon you. That is the same as karma of a group or karma of a nation.

According to the Tanach: God makes empires rise and fall and these stories are the same for Jews and Christian. So both is possible: a blessing or a curse. These concepts are inseperable.

The Babylonian Exil did not happen because of the "rise of man". They did wrong and they were punished for their wrongdoings. There are other examples in the Tanach, too. Jews know these facts.

sounds like a ridiculous question was jesus born with original sin .what the hell does that mean , when jesus was born like all of us we are then babies or infants so what we know is how to cry and poop our nappies so what can a baby do that would be a sin,you aint born with it you only commit to a sin when your old enough to know what is that sin is maybe if ya read the bible and see what they say is a sin

I think, it does not matter. David has murdered and he was forgiven by God. So the concept of forgiving (or blessing) is existent in Christianity. So God could have also forgiven a possible "ancestrial sin" of Jesus. But God blessed the line of Jesus, as far as I know. So there should not have been an ancestrial sin .
 
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Gnostic Christian

Active Member
Messages
772
sounds like a ridiculous question was jesus born with original sin .what the hell does that mean , when jesus was born like all of us we are then babies or infants so what we know is how to cry and poop our nappies so what can a baby do that would be a sin,you aint born with it you only commit to a sin when your old enough to know what is that sin is maybe if ya read the bible and see what they say is a sin

I agree that the whole of the Christian ideology is ridiculous. I would add quite immoral given that Yahweh is a genocidal prick of a god.

I work with what I have to help Christians recognize that fact.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian

Active Member
Messages
772
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, Jesus never whipped anyone. I also recall that Jesus said people should love their enemies. If that's the case, I'm sure Jesus loved everyone, except maybe Satan. There's an old saying that goes, "Practice what you preach."

How did he chase the money changers away? Nice words? No. Violence.

Jesus said he came to bring war, and here you prefer to ignore his words. Tsk tsk.

Satan, to Jews, was god's loyal opposition. That is why Christians sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

No one practices what Jesus taught so I do not know why you quote that old adage.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Christian

Active Member
Messages
772
That is not a proof.

As we discuss a supernaturally based religion that has never shown anything to just8ify the adoration of a genocidal and infanticidal prick 0of a god.

As to the fantasy of Eden that we are talking about, Christianity has yet to come up with a talking serpent or donkey and are without any proof of their fantasy being real.

Regards
DL
 

alpha centauri

Active Member
Messages
896
So let us look into your pamphlet.

The Original Meaning Of Original Sin

The story of Adam and Eve, and of the serpent in the Garden of Eden, was, of course, originally a Jewish fable.

The Dutch scientist Marjo C.A. Korpel and Johannes de Moor discovered a ugaritic text that is 800 years older than the texts of the
first book of Moses. The story is similar. So it was most probably not originally Jewish.


But Jews read that story differently to Christians. In Judaism, Adam and Eve’s transgression creates a sin against their own souls, but it does not condemn humanity as a whole, and nor does it fundamentally transform either human nature or human beings’ relationship to God.

If Adam and Eve were the only humans that existed, it affected the humanity as a whole. So it does not matter.

The Garden of Eden story changes the relationship to God because they were never offered to return to the Garden. It depends how you look at it. But Jews and Christians agree on that point. Now the human race is responsible for themselves and dont get food for free or for doing nothing like in the Garden of Eden. But other than that I dont see a change in relationship for Christians.

In the Christian tradition, God created humanity to be immortal. In eating the apple, Adam and Eve brought mortality upon themselves. Jews have always seen humans as mortal beings.
What??? Immortal??? I have never heard that. Maybe some Christians say it.

But ok. If humans are the image of God (an immortal being), then they should still be immortal.

The ugaritic text, that i meantioned above, tells this story: The immortal Adam becomes mortal because he was bitten by a snake.

In the Garden, Adam and Eve were as children. Having eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they had to take responsibility for themselves, their decisions and their behaviour. This is seen not as a ’fall’ but as a ‘gift’ – the gift of free will. As the Hertz Chumash, the classic Hebrew-English edition of the Pentateuch and Haftorahs, observes, ‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

If "the rise of man" is the intention, they have a strange way of showing it. All of the stories tell how people did something wrong.

They have no total free will. If they dont obey, they are punished. So in that case, I would also follow every law, because I dont want to
be punished. But I would not if that would not be the case. So my free will is infringed through these laws.

Furthermore, they are bound in the flesh so they cannot do everything they want. For example humans cannot teleport or have telekinese abilities.

The story of Adam and Eve was initially, then, a fable about the attainment of free will and the embrace of moral responsibility. It became a tale about the corruption of free will and the constraints on moral responsibility.
Jews and Christians tell that there are consequences, if you dont obey God and rewards if you obey him. Otherwise the story of Abraham and the sacrifice of his son makes no sense or the other stories in which people are rewarded or punished for following the laws or not following the laws.

You have no free will to decide, what is good or evil. God decides especially for fundamentalists. They usually follow more laws.

It was in this transformation in the meaning of the Adam and Eve’s transgression that Christianity has perhaps secured its greatest influence. The true legacy of the doctrine of Original Sin is not as an explanation of evil, but rather as a description of human nature, a description that came to dominate Western ethical thinking as Christianity became the crucible in which that thinking took place.
The scribe make something up to picture Judaism as something better and says Christianity is the problem. It is not really thoughtful, because it was Jesus who emphasized, you should not strictly following the rules and think for yourself. Of course, that concept is also taught on other parts of the Torah. But what Jesus did is the exactly opposite of that, what the scribe claims. And Jesus is the difference. Christianity gives the people more moral responsibility, because it is emphasized that it is more important to think with your heart, than strictly following the laws. That is shown in the New Testament.
 

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