Debate 2012 ELECTION: Mitt Romney vs. Obama

Samstwitch

Senior Member
Messages
5,111
romney_obama_wrap_uni_1350441153.jpg

It's a subject I hated to post a thread on, but I'm still undecided as to who (if either) will get my vote. I don't like voting for the lesser of two evils.

I didn't vote for Bush or Obama in 2008, I wrote-in a Candidate. My choice of Candidates were pushed out of the race by the Media and excluded from the Debates.

Both Obama and Romney have good points and bad...Voting for either of them scares the crap out of me!

This thread isn't really a debate thread. I'm asking for LISTS of Pros and Cons to help us undecided voters decide who to vote for.

Here is my list of Pros and Cons:
(There is more that I can't think of now. I will add in later Posts as I think of them. )

Romney - Cons
Wants to do away with Obamacare (Although Obama says Mitt has the same healthcare plan in his state - it works too- only I think it's a better plan.)
Wants to do away with PBS
Wants to do away with Family Planning (Obama accused him of this, but Romney denied it, so maybe this isn't true)
Made derogatory remark about 47% of people consider themselves "victims"
Doesn't want to raise taxes on the rich
Supports off-shore drilling and nuclear power
Wants to open trade with Latin or South America (can't remember specifics, but we already have NAFTA which has ruined USA)
*Republican Presidents always make the rich richer, and the poor poorer
Wants to invest more money in Military/Defense/etc
Opposes gay marriage (I haven't researched this, but I suspect he's homophobic)

Romney - Pros
Wants to bring jobs to USA (I think he can)
Wants to lower taxes on businesses to bring work back to USA (now 35% in USA, Canada is only 15%)
Wants to make China play by the rules, including put tariffs on China
Wants to reduce Regulators on Businesses, too many now
Wants to stop China from manipulating the currency
He's a great businessman & successful record all around (i.e., as Governor, in business, and helped Olympics get on track)
Has successful track record as Governor
He balanced the state budget all 4 years during his term as Governor
Has successful healthcare program in his state
Schools in his state ranked Top in the nation
Has ideas about lowering the price of gas
Has ideas about resolving immigration problems
Wants to expand energy sources in USA and get us energy -independant
Wants to preserve and protect Medicare & Social Security
As Governor had more women on his staff than any other state in USA (He had his staff seek women professionals out to hire)
Served as Missionary for his church, served 10 years as Pastor in his Congregation (I haven't researched his record, but he said this.)

Obama - Cons
4-year Track record is bad
Higher gas prices
More unemployment
More Homeless
More people on Food Stamps
No jobs for Students on his watch
Doesn't support Israel the way he should (I have much to say about this, but won't post it here. Prime Minister Netanyahu has spoken of this often.)
Caused higher deficit for USA
Obama took office and gave away money to Americans when the USA was heavily in debt, putting us more in debt - Stupid! (can't remember what it was called.)
During the Debate, Obama didn't tell the truth about his statement of when he announced the true cause of attack in Libya...It was 14 days later!
Stuff he says he'll do if re-elected, he should already done while in office
He spent the last 2 years campaigning, when he should've been working, doing the job he was elected to do!
I still have questions about the validity of his Social Security number and Birth Certificate (I've done the research)
I think he's Muslim disguising himself as Christian. (I researched this.)
I don't believe the whole story about Osama's death and how it happened. (I did the research. I think he's dead, but at a whole different place and time.)
Hasn't solved immigration problems
Supports privileges and funding for immigrants that I don't
Obamacare will cost Medicare recipients more money, and deter new jobs for small businesses
He is a Socialist, just as his father was.

Obama - Pros
Supports Obamacare (I want health care for all, but one that works.)
Is more concerned about the environment where energy resources are concerned
Has better policies for gays
*Democrats are generally more concerned with poor and low-income
Supports Family Planning, PBS, and other important programs
Brought home troops from Iraq
Ending war in Afghanistan (not fast enough for me)

NEITHER ADDRESSED
What about NAFTA?
What about Foreign Aid?

PLEASE NO POLITICAL ARGUMENTS ON THIS THREAD. I'M ASKING FOR LISTS OF PROS AND CONS. WE CAN ALL AGREE TO DISAGREE, AND STILL REMAIN FRIENDS.

PLEASE DO NOT REPOST THIS COMMENT!
 

Samstwitch

Senior Member
Messages
5,111
You are most welcome, Professor!

ABOUT TONIGHT'S DEBATE
1) Who won the debate? I think both Candidates were equal in strength.
2) Both Candidates equally interrupted rudely and kept talking out-of-turn.
3) Tonight's Moderator, Candy Crowley, was better than the Moderator, a man (can't remember his name) in the last Debate. Crowley had more control than the Moderator in the previous Debate.
 

Samstwitch

Senior Member
Messages
5,111
Now that I have made my own list, I know who I'm going to vote for.
Well, at least I figured it out. :rolleyes:
I hope my list helps others decide too.

I'm a Democrat, and I'm voting for Mitt Romney.

I don't think the USA can survive 4 more years of Obama.
 

Samstwitch

Senior Member
Messages
5,111
SAME SEX ISSUES

ROMNEY: “I am pleased to have had an opportunity to talk with you and to meet many of you personally during your September meeting. I learned a great deal from those discussions and many thoughtful questions you posed. As a result of our discussions and other interactions with gay and lesbian voters across the state, I am more convinced than ever before that as we seek to establish full equality for America's gay and lesbian citizens, I will provide more effective leadership than my opponent.

"I am not unaware of my opponents considerable record in the area of civil rights, or the commitment of Massachusetts voters to the principle of equality for all Americans. For some voters it might be enough for me to simply match my opponent's record in this area. But I believe we can and must do better. If we are to achieve the goals we share, we must make equality for gays and lesbians a mainstream concern. My opponent cannot do this. I can and will.”

(I'm glad to see he is supportive!)

CLICK ME to see more of what Romney says on same sex issues.
 

Samstwitch

Senior Member
Messages
5,111
CLICK ME to see the FULL TRANSCRIPT of last night's PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE!

Now I agree with Mitt Romney! Obama did NOT say the attack on the Embassy in Libya was a terrorist attack until 14 days after it happened. Prior to that he attributed the attack to backlash from that stupid American film that degraded Mohammed, and caused rioting in the Middle East.

So if Romney and I remember correctly, Obama was out-and-out lying about that! Here are excerpts from the Debate where this disagreement is debated between Romney and Obama...CLICK ME TO SEE PAGE 2 OF THE TRANSCRIPT WHERE IT IS POSTED.

DEBATE OVER LIBYA (Excerpt)

ROMNEY: And there was no demonstration involved. It was a terrorist attack and it took a long time for that to be told to the American people. Whether there was some misleading, or instead whether we just didn't know what happened, you have to ask yourself why didn't we know five days later when the ambassador to the United Nations went on TV to say that this was a demonstration. How could we have not known?

But I find more troubling than this, that on -- on the day following the assassination of the United States ambassador, the first time that's happened since 1979, when -- when we have four Americans killed there, when apparently we didn't know what happened, that the president, the day after that happened, flies to Las Vegas for a political fund-raiser, then the next day to Colorado for another event, other political event.

I think these -- these actions taken by a president and a leader have symbolic significance and perhaps even material significance in that you'd hope that during that time we could call in the people who were actually eyewitnesses. We've read their accounts now about what happened. It was very clear this was not a demonstration. This was an attack by terrorists...

OBAMA: The day after the attack, governor, I stood in the Rose Garden and I told the American people in the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened. That this was an act of terror and I also said that we're going to hunt down those who committed this crime...

ROMNEY: I -- I think interesting the president just said something which -- which is that on the day after the attack he went into the Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror.

OBAMA: That's what I said.

ROMNEY: You said in the Rose Garden the day after the attack, it was an act of terror.
It was not a spontaneous demonstration, is that what you're saying?

OBAMA: Please proceed governor.

ROMNEY: I want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror.

OBAMA: Get the transcript.

CROWLEY: It -- it -- it -- he did in fact, sir. So let me -- let me call it an act of terror...

OBAMA: Can you say that a little louder, Candy?

CROWLEY: He -- he did call it an act of terror. It did as well take -- it did as well take two weeks or so for the whole idea there being a riot out there about this tape to come out. You are correct about that.

ROMNEY: This -- the administration -- the administration indicated this was a reaction to a video and was a spontaneous reaction.

CROWLEY: It did.

ROMNEY: It took them a long time to say this was a terrorist act by a terrorist group. And to suggest -- am I incorrect in that regard, on Sunday, the -- your secretary --

OBAMA: Candy?

ROMNEY: Excuse me. The ambassador of the United Nations went on the Sunday television shows and spoke about how --

OBAMA: Candy, I'm --

ROMNEY: -- this was a spontaneous --

CROWLEY: Mr. President, let me --

OBAMA: I'm happy to have a longer conversation --

CROWLEY: I know you --

OBAMA: -- about foreign policy.

CROWLEY: Absolutely. But I want to -- I want to move you on and also --

OBAMA: OK. I'm happy to do that, too.

MY NOTE: Yeah, Obama was happy to move on to another subject, because Romney was correct, which makes Obama a liar. I followed that story, and I was waiting for Obama to say it was a terrorist act, but it took 2 weeks for him to do so. Prior to that, he blamed it on the American film.
 

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