Cosmo's Big Thread of Anti-Theism

[Khaos]

Why would a perfect potter create an imperfect mold, order it to be perfect and then judge it based on the imperfections he gave it?

That wasn't God. That was Religion. I think of a higher power and religion as two different entities. A higher power that created something from nothing. Can you explain how everything came into existence? Chemical reactions right. But what started those reactions? I get the fact that evolution allowed single celled pieces of slime billions of years ago, to mutate into multiple celled pieces of slime that continued to mutate into what we have today. Animals, plants, insects, humans. But what caused those mutations? Why did they mutate? Why are we continuing to mutate? Will it ever end?

Religion on the other hand... created to keep order and control in a populace. Basic solution to a problem. Its why we have laws. Its why the NSA is breathing down our necks. To keep order and control in the populace. I don't believe a higher power would demand anything out of what it creates. I believe Religion would though. I believe someone would intertwine a God and Religion to make the religion more intimidating. Make it more believable. Thousands of years ago it was. These days however...

But a God? Can you effectively rule out the existence of a God? Some omnipotent force that created something from nothing?

And before you think of me as a devout religious believer, another surprise. I don't follow any particular religion. I have a belief in a higher power and that's about it. This higher power holds no influence in my life. I don't believe my higher power would make me imperfect and demand me to make me perfect. Actually my higher power didn't make me. My mom and dad did.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

God created/caused the universe

The First Cause Argument, or Cosmological Argument, is internally contradictory and raises the following questions: Who or what created god?, Why should a hypothetical ‘cause’ have any of the common attributes of a god?, Why is the ‘cause’ a specific god?, Why can’t the universe be causeless too? and, most importantly, Why rule out all other possible explanations?

It is fundamentally a ‘god of the gaps’ approach. Our current lack of understanding concerning the Universe’s origins does not automatically mean ‘god’ holds any explanatory value. Metaphysical and theistic speculation are not immediately justified or correct simply because we lack a comprehensive scientific model. Uncertainty is the most valid position and one can honestly say “We just don’t know yet”.

The argument ignores the fact that our everyday understanding of causality has been arrived at via a posteriori inductive reasoning – which means it might not apply to everything. Time, for instance, appears to have begun with the Big Bang, so there might not have been any ’cause’ for the Universe to be an ‘effect’ of since there was probably no time for a ’cause’ to exist in.

Applying concepts like time and causality to the Big Bang might be comparable to asking “What is north of the North Pole?” – ultimately nonsensical and incoherent. Furthermore, even if causality could be established it would not immediately imply the existence of a god, much less any particular one, as the properties and nature of the ’cause’ could forever remain a mystery or be naturalistic.

In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form of virtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations. They explain why the early universe lacked uniformity and provided the seeds for the emergence of structure. These quantum phenomena are also causeless in the sense that they are objectively and irreducibly random, a fact confirmed by tests of non-local realism and Bell’s Theorem.

Theists often state “God is outside of time”. This claim does not actually make their speculation correct. Instead, it brings with it a whole host of problems and may be immediately dismissed as being without basis and a type fallacy known as special pleading.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

But a God? Can you effectively rule out the existence of a God? Some omnipotent force that created something from nothing?

I can logically demonstrate and reference evidence of forces at work that would account for many things people would attribute to "God", but no, I cannot entirely logically rule "him" out either.

My point is that just because I can't explain some things doesn't mean that there's a magical entity responsible for them. Thousands of years ago people attributed volcanoes, earthquakes, storms and many other things to a God (or several) because they lacked understanding of those forces. This goes back to the "god of the gaps" argument I mentioned above, and the gaps in understanding that people choose to fill with "god did it" are rapidly closing.

I too believe that there's a consciousness of some kind outside of (or a part) of our own experiences, but I have no evidence for it and thus need to remain open to the idea that there's nothing like that at all. Taking an atheist approach doesn't mean a person is close minded; it means that they have yet to encounter evidence that would convince them otherwise.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

I want to believe in God OR I just have faith.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is. In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are stardust. You couldn’t be here if stars hadn’t exploded, because the elements – the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution and for life – weren’t created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way for them to get into your body is if those stars were kind enough to explode. So, forget Jesus. The stars died so that you could be today.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

Believers are persecuted by atheists.

Blue Laws. Anti-atheist laws. Discrimination against atheists. The written penalty for apostasy (leaving a religion) in most religions is death.

Believers claim the victim and imply that non-theists gang up on them, or rally against them. No, atheists just look at believers the same way they might look at someone who claims the Earth is flat, or that the Earth is the center of the universe: delusional.

The bar theists set for perceived atheist hostility appears to be anyone simply voicing a dissenting opinion or mentioning an inclination towards non-belief. Claiming "persecution" is simply a deflection for theists who are unwilling or unable to deal with open criticism.

When Atheists aren’t considered the least trustworthy group and comprise more than 70% of the population, then we’ll talk about persecution.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

I feel a personal relationship with god OR I experienced god.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_religious_experience
Ah, the good old Argument from Personal Experience.

A result of our naturally evolved neurology, made hypersensitive to purpose (an ‘unseen actor’) because of the large social groups humans have and the way the brain associates pattern with intent.

Humans have evolved a variety of cognitive shortcuts to deal with the mass of information provided by our senses. In particular, we tend to filter sensory input according to a set of expectations built on prior beliefs and past experiences, impart meaning to ambiguous input even when there is no real meaning behind it and infer causal relationships where none exist.

Personal revelation cannot be independently verified. So-called ‘revelations’ never include information a recipient could not have known beforehand, such as the time and location of a rare event or answers to any number of unsolved problems in science. They are usually emotional or perceptual in content and therefore unremarkable among the many cognitive processes brains exhibit, including dreams and hallucinations. These experiences may even be artificially induced by narcotics or magnetic fields. Extreme cases may be diagnosed as a form of schizophrenia or psychosis.

Spiritual and religious experiences are not only inconsistent among individuals but are variably attributed to different gods, aliens, spirits, rituals, hallucinations, meditation etc. The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

 

[Falling_into_Fate]

you don't necessarily have to believe in a God, I believe there's a consciousness that permeates everything, but wouldn't consider it God, becase we have consciousness that comes from that collective. So that'd mean we are Gods, too.

 

[TimeWizardCosmo]

you don't necessarily have to believe in a God, I believe there's a consciousness that permeates everything, but wouldn't consider it God, becase we have consciousness that comes from that collective. So that'd mean we are Gods, too.

This, believe it or not, is my basic view on the subject.

 

[Khaos]