minuteman project and Waco type events thread

[Darkwolf]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

There are many progessives (and liberals) like me, I am far from alone or were you trying to convey that it would be a liberal vs neo con situation?

No, actually the neocons, and the liberal establishment are on the same side. The other side consists of real conservatives, libertarians, and even some liberals who have a clue about what is going on. The erosion of the constitution has gone unchecked throughout liberal and neocon administrations. They have done a masterful job of presenting themselves as the two sides of american politics when there is really only one side consisting of both major parties. They keep people switching to the "other side" assuming there is going to be a change while excluding all genuine freedom loving candidates who could make one. Its a sham job, and some people, mostly on the far right are figuring that out.

 

[Darkwolf]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

I don't like resolutions because they do absolutely nothing,\" he said in an interview after the vote. He also said the resolution was too vague. Is it a sacrifice of personal liberty to not be able to take a gun on an airplane? he asked. Is that the kind of thing this resolution objects to?

It is interasting that the people in Montanna who objected to the resolution weren't against it, they thought it didn't go far enogh. I woulden't want to be a fed in that area these days.

 

[Zoomerz]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

Section_one;

Exactly how do you see this as a left/right issue? I think you should reexamine the situation. I'm a progressive and I'm not happy with the way the citzenry is being treated by the government or by the corporations that control it. I am far from happy about illegals being treated with more respect and getting more rights in many cases, than your average American. I am sick and tired of illegals streaming across our borders unchecked and raping this country while giving nothing back and I'm sick and tired of the Israelis treating our country as their b!tch.

I believe the particular part of this thread you're refering to was concerning JT's prediction of a civil war in this country. The post I was replying to was trying to illustrate the frustrations of the *people* against the government. Not what JT was predicting. They are 2 different issues.

When you say "this" in reference to a left/right issue, you're speaking of the people vs. government. And I would agree with you. However, I don't see a *revolution* against the government anytime soon (again in reference to JT's prediction). I do see the potential for a *left/right* "civil war" though, as the country is very polarized on many issues.

Regarding the border situation (specifically), I see most Americans actually united in their anger that the Bush admin is doing very little to secure our homeland. This, has NOT been a political device. If you notice, there are many republicans as well as dem's that are frustrated with policy. You have 3 groups that are targeting the MMP. They are the Bush admin, the ACLU, and the terrorist hispanic gang . As far as the ACLU is concerned, they are simply an atagonistic organization that, if given the chance, will destroy this country. Their mission in life is to destabilize our government, and our way of life (MHO). The majority of U.S. citizens (I believe) are in favor of tightening the borders.

There are many progessives (and liberals) like me, I am far from alone or were you trying to convey that it would be a liberal vs neo con situation? That I could see, seeing as how the current government and their support base loves to sell Americans down the river for chump change.

Again, you are confusing the division in ideology *left/right* with the general discontent of the American people with government. The former will lead to civil war, and the latter to revolution. I see more potential for the first, not a revolution (at this time!).

P.S. Why was it the liberal/progressive side of the issue in the Schivao case for State's rights and individual rights? Why were the conservatives for the government and keeping a vegetable on a feeding tube so that the corporations could milk her for more money? Shouldn't she have been allowed long before this to ascend to Heaven or to go onto the next life (reincarantion)? I pity the people who think a feeding tube is better than either of those options, they must really not believe in God or the afterlife supporting something like that.....

Conservatives generally support "pro-life" agendas such as anti-abortion, anti-stem cell research, etc. These are drawn primarily on religious conviction. Conservatives are *more often* religious (that's not to say being a liberal means you are not!). The politicization of the Schaivo case was an attempt by conservative lawmakers to make gains and capitalize on a situation where they didn't belong.

Generally, liberals support the "right-to-die". Generally, conservatives do not. Even after her death, you have idiots like Delay citing this "tragedy", and trying to further anti-abortion agendas. Threatening the justices and such. What a slimeball. Anyway, personally I have read the judges decisions, and believe they did a stellar job of adjudication. And under terrific stress by politicians that had no business being involved.

This entire situation boiled down to 2 distinct points of view. One view upheld the right-to-die, and the other tried to portray this as murder. It's really that simple. But the left/right lines fell pretty much the way you'd expect.

Do you know what side you're on? Just wondering.

I am a "moderate" if put on a linear scale. I try to take each issue and think it through. My opinions rarely can be put in a box with one extreme or the other.

As far as the Schaivo case, my opinions are well documented in this thread and others.

Regards!
Z-

 

[artsouth]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

here is the link to a local tombstone az. web news site

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/border/

 

[Lucidus]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

Regarding the border situation (specifically), I see most Americans actually united in their anger that the Bush admin is doing very little to secure our homeland.

It turns out that Bush was telling the truth when he said he was a uniter. He has just about united everyone against his border policy!:grin:

 

[Section_One]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"artsouth\")</div>

section-one... to whom are you addressing this post?[/b]

The person I'm quoting perhaps? Just a thought.

 

[CaryP]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Darkwolf\")</div>

No, actually the neocons, and the liberal establishment are on the same side. The other side consists of real conservatives, libertarians, and even some liberals who have a clue about what is going on. The erosion of the constitution has gone unchecked throughout liberal and neocon administrations. They have done a masterful job of presenting themselves as the two sides of american politics when there is really only one side consisting of both major parties. They keep people switching to the \"other side\" assuming there is going to be a change while excluding all genuine freedom loving candidates who could make one. Its a sham job, and some people, mostly on the far right are figuring that out.[/b]

Thank you Phil. You just put the "mustard on the hot dog" with this one. It AIN'T about what party is saying whaterver. It's the whole damned govt. againt the general, mostly asleep at the wheel, populace. When the shiate comes down, I wanna be where you are.

Cary

 

[Crosstika]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

Border Group Report Results in Arrests

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/a...rder_volunteers

Sun Apr 3, 6:51 PM ET

By BETH DeFALCO, Associated Press Writer

PHOENIX - Volunteers for an effort to patrol the Mexican border reported their first sighting of suspected illegal immigrants, resulting in 18 arrests, authorities said Sunday.


U.S. Border Patrolled for Illegal Immigrants



Participants in the Minuteman Project spotted the migrants Saturday near Naco as the volunteers were surveying the border to familiarize themselves with area. When agents arrived, they apprehended 18 people, Border Patrol spokesman Andy Adame said.

"You observe them, report them and get out of the way," said Mike McGarry, a spokesman for the project, which begins Monday and is to continue for a month.

The volunteers reported another illegal immigrant after he wandered onto the campus of a Bible college near the community of Palominas, where about 100 Minuteman participants were staying.

The man walked in and said he needed food and water. Volunteers helped him and notified federal agents, who picked him up, McGarry said.

The man was weary from traveling but did not need medical attention, Adame said.

"It's not uncommon to have aliens that have had enough," Adame said. "They'll walk up to someone's house and ask them to call us. They're waiting on the porch when we arrive."

Minuteman volunteers planned to start regular patrols Monday, fanning out across 23 miles of the San Pedro Valley to watch the border and report any illegal activity to federal agents. It's an exercise some law enforcement authorities and others fear could lead to vigilante violence.

McGarry said about 200 people would be in place for Monday's patrols, although human rights activists and some authorities have questioned whether the project will attract as many volunteers as organizers expect.

Law enforcement officials said the volunteers were keeping the peace, despite concerns they might become confrontational with immigrants. Many of the volunteers were recruited over the Internet and some plan to be armed.

"Everything seems to be going well," said Carol Capas, a spokeswoman for the Cochise County Sheriff's Office.

The Arizona-Mexico border is considered the most vulnerable stretch of the 2,000-mile southern border. Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants caught by the Border Patrol last year, 51 percent crossed into the country at the Arizona border.

 

[Crosstika]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

Maybe the minutemen aren't the Wacos..



US has no time for Minutemen on Mexican border
By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles

04 April 2005

They Touted themselves as fearless patriots standing up for the defence of the homeland. Their enemies painted them as dangerous vigilantes who threatened to create a bloodbath on the US-Mexican border. In the end, the so-called Minuteman Project * a private, month-long initiative to patrol the southern Arizona border and fend off illegal immigrants * has turned out to be little more than an April Fool's joke.

For weeks, the US media has been intrigued by the possibility of a major stand-off in the Sonoran desert, envisioning armies of white supremacists armed with Uzis and Kalashnikovs, gunning down Mexican immigrants trying to make the dash across the sand and brush to a brighter economic future.

The American Civil Liberties Union sent in its own army of legal observers. Local politicians and residents alternately bristled at the prospect of these uninvited out-of-town enforcers, or else welcomed them as a much-needed counterweight to the heavily Latino local establishment.

As the call to arms began over the weekend, satellite trucks and television equipment vans lined the streets of Tombstone, the tourist town made famous by Wyatt Earp and his shoot-out at the OK Corral. Anticipation was at fever pitch. But the supposedly redoubtable army of right-minded citizens, stepping in where the federal government fears to tread, turned out to be no more than a couple of hundred pot-bellied retirees.

Some, it is true, were armed with 9mm semi-automatic pistols, but most turned up with nothing more threatening than lawn-chairs.

The 1,000 people promised by the Minuteman Project's organisers ended up at just 480, the organisation said. Reporters who attended their inaugural rallies outside two Border Patrol stations in Cochise County, south of Tucson, said there were 150.

A few groups of volunteers * "patrol" would be too grand a word for it * eventually fanned out along the border on Saturday and Sunday, and one alerted the Border Patrol to suspected illegals. But mostly, media crews were left staring at each other, wondering what the fuss was about. When news of the Pope's death hit the South-west at lunchtime on Saturday, several journalists were called home, as the airwaves were bombarded instead with a non-stop diet of mourning and remembrance. As Ray Borne, the mayor of the border town of Douglas, told reporters: "This is a monster created by the media. But by Tuesday it's going to fizzle out."

Cochise County has been the scene of clashes over immigration before, with a rash of shootings of Mexicans causing outrage three years ago.

The Minuteman Project was the brainchild of a retired accountant from southern California, teaming up with a local anti-immigration activist called Chris Simcox.

Mr Simcox has a record of talking more loudly than his actions would warrant. In 2002, he founded a group called Civil Homeland Defence in Tombstone and told the media he was training 600 volunteers to patrol the border. Only a handful showed up.

 

[artsouth]

Re: minuteman project... waco type event???

this is cool....


The Rumor Mill News Reading Room
http://www.rumormillnews.com


WHICH WAY TO THE CREMATORY? APOLOGY TO WORLD ELITE

Posted By: Nemesis <Send E-Mail>
Date: Sunday, 3 April 2005, 12:01 p.m.

Dear Elite, Powerful and Pretty-People,

I just want to publically apologize for being a useless-eater-gnome. Since I am personally guilty of pooping on your parade and contaminating this pristine world at the expense of your family?s holidays, if you would kindly point the way to your henchmen, manacles, gulag and where I can await extermination, I would like to go now and avoid the rush (I never did like crowds) though I do understand that lining three of us up, one behind the other, saves bullets.

With heartfelt remorse I am sorry for ever being born without your permission (I really had nothing to do with it (please talk to my parents, they?re old now and perhaps you could ?Schiavo? them and save yourself the cost of a few trees and save them the cost of hundreds of Depends).

I realize things have gotten out-of-hand and that your greed has returned to you in most unpleasant ways (maybe it?s your inbreeding and all those baby vegetables you eat (just thought giving you a clue might help you avoid the same mistakes in the future so you can live happier lives?no need to thank me in the traditional way, just a quick demise will be sufficient reward)).

I know you?ve been trying to come up with solutions for the masses, and have been tireless in implementing them in the most kind way:

Dumming-down the world?s people;

revolutions to put your people in power;

wars of ethnic cleansing and extermination;

birth-control legislation and abortion clinics;

developing killer virus and disease;

using weather as a weapon;

mind-control and sleepers that kill on command;

controlling free government?s elected servants through blackmail to do your bidding and blackmailing the judiciary so they follow your orders;

controlling the money of the world;

combining power in nations and the world so it is easier to implement your agenda;

controlling communication at a global level so you can control the ?news? in every nation;

using a vast number of dupes (who think you and they are doing a good work) to indoctrinate populations in every nation.

I know it must be tough to be obsessed with power, wealth and glory (though I understand once you have power . . . wealth and glory are a given and don?t hold a candle light to nuclear power) especially since your dupes-employees? quest for wealth and glory have in essence created the disaster you are now so desperately trying to avoid (it?s a little late now, but perhaps next time you will consider not using your local ?Man Power? hiring agency to get your dummed-downed-dupes to do your bidding).

And lastly, I would like to apologize for not having been a good slave and making it easier on you. I?m sorry for all your restless nights of sleeplessness wherein you were disturbed that things haven?t gone exactly as you planned. I never meant to be the cause of them. And in earnest, I want to thank you for working on the darkside of this duality called Earth-life and providing humanity with so many experiences. Without you it might have been Heaven-on-Earth, which of course wasn?t the plan from the beginning, but, a warning: Your time is short, for, as you know, Heaven-on-Earth is the earths final reality, after you have served your purpose and have done all you can do to bring it about by FORCE, which is not how it will come about. Sorry.

P.S. It?s always easy to tell who is on the darkside of duality: They use force to attempt to implement their ideals. And whether it is a man or woman ruling as a dictator in his family, business or government, it is the same. THE FORCE IS ABOUT TO BE OVERTHROWN.

EMAIL:

[email protected]