Debunking Ouija Boards.

[Ayasano]

Listening to the second unenhanced one this is what I hear:
00:00-00:01 A woman in the background laughing
00:01-00:03 Someone saying "Maybe you can tell us why you're here?"
00:03 A man says something I can't quite catch
00:03-00:04 The woman says "Yeah, that's a different person entirely"
00:04-00:06 The man says something I can't catch, ending with something like "commotion" or "promotion"

 

[label]

Just to sort out some of the anti-science sentiment here:

When it comes to the scientific method, anecdotal evidence is fine as supporting evidence. It can't be the only evidence though. The core of the scientific method is repeatable experiments, and failing that, recordings of events. In the case of ouija boards, an experiment would be testing one in a controlled environment and accounting for all the variables, such as people subconsciously moving the pointer.

As for humans not knowing everything "therefore science is wrong"...just because we haven't explained something yet, doesn't mean we won't be able to eventually. (If you explain it, it stops being "magic")

Science is as it is now is driven by formality/agenda and has lost its will to discover and is focused on industrial/profitable needs. Thus very little effort is made to find out if the supernatural is even plausible. Some use science to quantify their own agenda more so when it comes to the supernatural and spiritual.See there is this need not to believe that the supernatural/spiritual world.

See people simply accept that science is atheistic and that evolutionary theory is fact. there has been countless experiments done on the spiritual and the results was conclusive and repeatable but because these facts contradict mainstream believe it gets virtually no attention as proven by above posts.

If it did then our science buddies would have mentioned it right? And yet they rather go so far as to call us anti-scientific! No sir/madam call me what you will but I am a deeply scientifically driven individual it is just I include "all facts of various experiments ALL of them repeatable" where you do not.I took the time to find those facts contacted the people and read the studies and conclusions along with research. I schooled myself in science and am educated because I am driven! Not because I have an agenda.

I am also a deeply religious man and thus my mind is OPEN to ALL possibility where as your own has closed a few doors by now or so it will appear?

For me science exist to find the whole truth. Not just popular theory...Truth is real the studies are real and so is the data I recommend taking a careful second look and find both the studies and people involve and see what they have done for yourself.

 

[Ayasano]

Science is as it is now is driven by formality/agenda and has lost its will to discover and is focused on industrial/profitable needs. Thus very little effort is made to find out if the supernatural is even plausible. Some use science to quantify their own agenda more so when it comes to the supernatural and spiritual.See there is this need not to believe that the supernatural/spiritual world.

There are still scientists who do it solely for the search for knowledge. Pretty much any theorist would fall into that category because their work tends to have very little direct monetary value. They just pave the way for the experimentalists.

See people simply accept that science is atheistic and that evolutionary theory is fact. there has been countless experiments done on the spiritual and the results was conclusive and repeatable but because these facts contradict mainstream believe it gets virtually no attention as proven by above posts.

Evolutionary theory seems to get bandied around a lot, but although it may not be complete, we certainly know it isn't fundamentaly wrong, since we've observed it many times in nature.

I think part of the problem with spiritual experiments is that they tend to be conducted very poorly, similar to how a lot of "alternative medicine" trials are done with no control, no double blind, etc. There's a lot of selection bias ignoring negative results and inflating positive ones. I've yet to come accross an experiment that claimed statisticly significant results that didn't do that. (Of course, people like James Randi straight up moving the goalposts and making fun of people doesn't help the situation)

If it did then our science buddies would have mentioned it right? And yet they rather go so far as to call us anti-scientific! No sir/madam call me what you will but I am a deeply scientifically driven individual it is just I include "all facts of various experiments ALL of them repeatable" where you do not.I took the time to find those facts contacted the people and read the studies and conclusions along with research. I schooled myself in science and am educated because I am driven! Not because I have an agenda.

There are some "scientists" like that, but don't make the mistake of believing we're all that way. Some of us enjoy debunking the real tinfoil-hat-crazies though. (You don't get that many of those here though)

I am also a deeply religious man and thus my mind is OPEN to ALL possibility where as your own has closed a few doors by now or so it will appear?

You might want to take a look at the posts after the one you quoted.

For me science exist to find the whole truth. Not just popular theory...Truth is real the studies are real and so is the data I recommend taking a careful second look and find both the studies and people involve and see what they have done for yourself.

Could you point me towards one of the better studies? I'd be interested in taking a look.

 

[label]

There are still scientists who do it solely for the search for knowledge. Pretty much any theorist would fall into that category because their work tends to have very little direct monetary value. They just pave the way for the experimentalists.

Evolutionary theory seems to get bandied around a lot, but although it may not be complete, we certainly know it isn't fundamentaly wrong, since we've observed it many times in nature.

I think part of the problem with spiritual experiments is that they tend to be conducted very poorly, similar to how a lot of "alternative medicine" trials are done with no control, no double blind, etc. There's a lot of selection bias ignoring negative results and inflating positive ones. I've yet to come accross an experiment that claimed statisticly significant results that didn't do that. (Of course, people like James Randi straight up moving the goalposts and making fun of people doesn't help the situation)

There are some "scientists" like that, but don't make the mistake of believing we're all that way. Some of us enjoy debunking the real tinfoil-hat-crazies though. (You don't get that many of those here though)

You might want to take a look at the posts after the one you quoted.

Could you point me towards one of the better studies? I'd be interested in taking a look.

I cannot tell you how tired I am of all this scepticism. Why even have a paranormal website if we cannot discuss paranormal activity without 6 PHDs? I am still new to the forum but I think there is an ignore function that you can use to ignore me and continue on with your life as if I never even existed.

Sadly there are enough bad people on both sides of the fence that is purely in it for the money and power and abuse and twist facts to fit them.

Truth is whatever you accept to be the truth and that is normally the end of it. I say keep an open mind and find the truth and if we are lucky we may even stumble across something significant and spectacular. But if one limit one's scope then things will be missed. And it is actually why science is there in the first place.

As for me telling you who to phone for studies? Firstly the people that share with me there research will not be happy about it secondly there is a scientific paper dedicated to new discoveries All you have to do is Google it.

So what happens now? You decide if I stay or leave. Because if there is no place for us to share think and trough ideas around then feel free to terminate my account here.

I was hoping that one could come here type down what is on your mind about the subject at hand and get insight of how others think. But if it is scientific study you want ALL the time and just facts and proof and qualified opinion then so be it.

 

[Ayasano]

I cannot tell you how tired I am of all this scepticism. Why even have a paranormal website if we cannot discuss paranormal activity without 6 PHDs? I am still new to the forum but I think there is an ignore function that you can use to ignore me and continue on with your life as if I never even existed.

Sadly there are enough bad people on both sides of the fence that is purely in it for the money and power and abuse and twist facts to fit them.

Truth is whatever you accept to be the truth and that is normally the end of it. I say keep an open mind and find the truth and if we are lucky we may even stumble across something significant and spectacular. But if one limit one's scope then things will be missed. And it is actually why science is there in the first place.

As for me telling you who to phone for studies? Firstly the people that share with me there research will not be happy about it secondly there is a scientific paper dedicated to new discoveries All you have to do is Google it.

So what happens now? You decide if I stay or leave. Because if there is no place for us to share think and trough ideas around then feel free to terminate my account here.

I was hoping that one could come here type down what is on your mind about the subject at hand and get insight of how others think. But if it is scientific study you want ALL the time and just facts and proof and qualified opinion then so be it.

Ah, you're new to the forum, I understand now, sorry.

You'll notice this thread is marked "debunking". That means the discussions can get a little more agressive than in the regular threads, but really we're just trying to stimulate discussion and get people thinking, so if that scares you, I suggest perhaps sticking to the normal threads, but you'll be missing out on some interesting discussions. I really hope you'll stay and discuss things with us.

"Truth is whatever you accept to be the truth"

I would contend that truth is whatever has been proven. Belief plays no part in what is true or untrue, that's the nature of reality. To think otherwise leads you into the dangerous terriroty of "magical thinking".

As far as asking for studies, I thought you meant they were available on the internet. Phonecalls aren't really an option for me as I would have to pay an international rate, and I'm poor as it is.

Is this the paper you were referring to? Without more details it's a little hard to pin down because there are a lot of scientific journals and websites out there.

 

[Num7]

I cannot tell you how tired I am of all this scepticism. Why even have a paranormal website if we cannot discuss paranormal activity without 6 PHDs? I am still new to the forum but I think there is an ignore function that you can use to ignore me and continue on with your life as if I never even existed.

Like Ayasano said, this is a debunking thread. The discussion can get a little more intense.

Feel free to head to the other Ouija boards discussion: Ouija Boards. | Paranormalis

I don't want you to think we're a bunch of evil debunkers! you can be sure we're not!

See ya!

 

[label]

let's start the debunking then... Does the body have electrical power? Well since we are made out of atoms the answer would be yes and is indeed accepted as yes by almost every biological study done on the human brain and anatomy in general.

So atoms by default has a resonant frequency and is why atomic clocks work "with the help of Cesium 133" but in general it is accepted that atoms can have both native and receptive frequencies and that it can alter its magnetic behaviour depending on the native or receptive behaviour within a environment.

Secondly the brain also have a native wave and frequency and the brain can be manipulated by outside energies and may introduce involuntary spasm or an involuntary motor mechanical movement such as a hand twitching or the heart beating faster. ALL of this is basic scientific fact and experimentation are well documented.

Sp the fundamental basics are that the pointing device must be held by one or more individuals all individuals must be in a relaxed state of mind. Now is it conceivable that an outside force can move the object by will without one of the individuals forcing the pointing device? Yes but is this proven? No it is not.

However it is very possible and proven that a body in a relax state is open to suggestion from an outside force such as "electricity, hipbones or even chemical stimulation" thus it is possible for the individual to move the pointing device thanks to "outside" stimulation. Now by the laws of variation an outside force can be magnetic energetic and or it can be altered brain waves projected to an individual's brain. More importantly consciously the person may not experience this force again fact.

So in conclusion can the pointer be moved by something manipulating the participants holding on to it? YES by scientific study and yes the participants will have no recollection of the "input energy" this too was proven as fact. So the real question is what outside energy stimulated the event in question?

The obvious answer is life energy! It is fact that the participants was alive thus they must have life energy. So it is safe to say that life energy could well be responsible for the movement of the pointing device and that it can be done subconsciously thus the body can be used as a conduit and can be manipulated by an outside source.

Now what source can be responsible for the subconscious behaviour. And here is but one answer, ENERGY moved it. That part is fact now to what degree was the participant manipulated? Answer is by a high enough energy for to allow the pointer to be moved.

So in the end it takes life force to move the pointer around and science have proven that life force have an effect on the brain and that each of us have the ability to "See sadness or feel tension" thus those factors will have an effect and that effect my result in a the individual moving the pointer without them knowing it and that that action may well be involuntary.

 

[Ayasano]

let's start the debunking then... Does the body have electrical power? Well since we are made out of atoms the answer would be yes and is indeed accepted as yes by almost every biological study done on the human brain and anatomy in general.

So atoms by default has a resonant frequency and is why atomic clocks work "with the help of Cesium 133" but in general it is accepted that atoms can have both native and receptive frequencies and that it can alter its magnetic behaviour depending on the native or receptive behaviour within a environment.

Secondly the brain also have a native wave and frequency and the brain can be manipulated by outside energies and may introduce involuntary spasm or an involuntary motor mechanical movement such as a hand twitching or the heart beating faster. ALL of this is basic scientific fact and experimentation are well documented.

Sp the fundamental basics are that the pointing device must be held by one or more individuals all individuals must be in a relaxed state of mind. Now is it conceivable that an outside force can move the object by will without one of the individuals forcing the pointing device? Yes but is this proven? No it is not.

However it is very possible and proven that a body in a relax state is open to suggestion from an outside force such as "electricity, hipbones or even chemical stimulation" thus it is possible for the individual to move the pointing device thanks to "outside" stimulation. Now by the laws of variation an outside force can be magnetic energetic and or it can be altered brain waves projected to an individual's brain. More importantly consciously the person may not experience this force again fact.

So in conclusion can the pointer be moved by something manipulating the participants holding on to it? YES by scientific study and yes the participants will have no recollection of the "input energy" this too was proven as fact. So the real question is what outside energy stimulated the event in question?

The obvious answer is life energy! It is fact that the participants was alive thus they must have life energy. So it is safe to say that life energy could well be responsible for the movement of the pointing device and that it can be done subconsciously thus the body can be used as a conduit and can be manipulated by an outside source.

Now what source can be responsible for the subconscious behaviour. And here is but one answer, ENERGY moved it. That part is fact now to what degree was the participant manipulated? Answer is by a high enough energy for to allow the pointer to be moved.

So in the end it takes life force to move the pointer around and science have proven that life force have an effect on the brain and that each of us have the ability to "See sadness or feel tension" thus those factors will have an effect and that effect my result in a the individual moving the pointer without them knowing it and that that action may well be involuntary.

Glad you decided to stay.

As mentioned in Techciple's first post, it's also possible that the person/people holding the pointer involuntarily moves it on their own without any physical stimulation. One outside force you left off the list is much more mundane: suggestion. It's possible for a combination of environment and the people around you to lead to you subconsciously move the pointer without realizing what you're doing. It's similar to how cold readers "read" the litle details like your facial expression, body language, etc., and choose their language and actions in such a way as to subtly manipulate you, or how a stage magician redirects your attention so you don't notice what they're actually doing.

As far as other forces, how would they be generated, stored and directed? Also, how exactly would you define "life energy"? Chemical energy stored in your cells? Electrical energy stored in your neurons? And how would you use those to influence another person?

Also, could you provide a link to the source for this statement? "...science have proven that life force have an effect on the brain and that each of us have the ability to "See sadness or feel tension"..."

 

[PaulaJedi]

photo:
Photos | Poltergeist Tower | Your portal to the unknown[/QUOTE]

I'm having trouble identifying the child in the two recordings. I can hear the person in the foreground asking "Can you tell us why you're here?" and the two people talking in the background, but I don't seem to hear a child singing?

In the photo, are you referring to the purple light near the bottom?[/QUOTE]

Did you use headphones?

Photo - the white swoosh.

 

[Ayasano]

Did you use headphones?

Photo - the white swoosh.

Yes, I pretty much exclusively use a headset as I have a nice pair from Sennheiser and tend to be up at all manner of hours. (I...don't sleep the way normal people do) Not as good bass as my old Turtle Beach ones but the damn things kept breaking every 2 months. Incidentally, it makes the "music" on your site even creepier. Reminds me of some of the Silent Hill stuff.

So the first thing I notice about the white swoosh is that it's actually very close to the camera. You can see that it faintly overlaps the floor at the bottom right, as well as the stairs. So whatever it was, you got pretty close.

The photo was taken at night, so it could well be a moonbeam coming in from one of those windows in the other picture, combined with the camera shake that you can see with the other light sources in the image, although the way it diverges is a little odd. That could be an artifact of the picture being taken with a low quality camera though. (Sorry, bit of a photography snob )

Other than that I'm not really qualified to dissect the photo, heh.