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Proof the Quran Supports KILLING Non-Believers

Discussion in 'Spirituality and Religion' started by PaulaJedi, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. PaulaJedi

    PaulaJedi Survivor Premium

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    This is straight out of the Quran. It tells Muslims to kill non-believers.

    ". And fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not commit aggression; Allah does not love the aggressors. 191. And kill them wherever you overtake them, and expel them from where they had expelled you. Oppression is more serious than murder. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you there. If they fight you, then kill them. Such is the retribution of the disbelievers."

    https://www.clearquran.com/downloads/quran-english-translation-clearquran-edition-allah.pdf
     
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  3. PaulaJedi

    PaulaJedi Survivor Premium

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    My interpretation: Don't attack first, but if they disagree with you or argue with you, kill them. And don't do it in the mosque.
     


  4. alpha centauri

    alpha centauri Junior Member

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    hi,

    There is a lot negative ideology in the quran and even more so in the hadith. That is one example.

    Some of the surah are positive some are negative. I believe Muhammad channeled a negative being in the end or at least sometimes.
    He said it was always the archangel Gabriel. But I dont think so. These metaphysical beings can fake their aura. And most persons cannot distinguish good from bad all the time - at least Muhammad. (thats what I heard. I cannot proof it.)

    The other possibility is Muhammad was negative himself and desired to be worshipped and hated all Non-Muslims, women etc... and faked some surah himself.

    The third possibility is his worshippers and successors faked the koran. So you have to proof by yourself what is good and what is bad like with everything.

    The bible has also this negative material but I think it is far less. You should not see the koran as a holy book, because it is not. Muhammad is one of over a million people who has spoken to angels (Gabriel) or god. They cannot all be right.

    Muslims also had slavery. That is one of the most negative thing you can do.

    Some surah like the above or the one you mentioned can be interpreted as good.

    But others like ISIS-members or Salafists interpret it there own way and very negative. And in my opinion it is better to take the book not that serious (if I would be a Muslim) or encourage liberal interpretation or at least not that hateful interpretations.
     


  5. alpha centauri

    alpha centauri Junior Member

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    Here and example of sexism.

    Women have less value then men. Man are always in charge. You are allowed to strike your woman....
    surah 4:34:

    Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.


    I think, everybody should be loved and treated equally. That is the meaning of unconditional love. That is what i follow. Love yourself as you love others. And also love god with all your heart but not this fake god of course ;). That is the teaching of Jesus I follow.

    I dont want to sow hate. you should love Muslims, too. and a lot Muslims dont even know these bad interpretations at least in my country. That are the ones that are more loving than hateful. But others do and interpret these surah very negative that are the fundamentalists like IS-members.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  6. Amin

    Amin Junior Member

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    https://abdurrahmanorg.files.wordpr...hya-al-haddadi-authentic-translations-com.pdf

    From the most horrible forms of extremism in the matter of Jihad is going to extremes in bloodshed, such that committing suicide is made permissible and labeled “martyrdom”, the murdering of believers in Tawḥīd (Islamic monotheism) like security officers and detectives is considered allowable by excusing it as “self-defense”. Killing women and children is deemed lawful by claiming they “harbor disbelievers”, and murdering those (Non-Muslims) at peace with Muslims and those promised safety is made permissible by claiming them to be “enemy combatants” or by claiming to implement the prophetic statement
     
  7. alpha centauri

    alpha centauri Junior Member

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    Those religious books contradict themselves. Some texts and surahs contradict other surahs (texts).

    By the way the science is totally wrong in the quran, the hadith but also the bible. It is just not logical. The is one of the reasons that keeps people away from God.

    And that is a shame, because I also believe in God (arabic Allah) and I think it is important to believe but not in the God in those books.

    Those books keep people away from the truth. So there are more and more Atheists.

    But as long as the believers are liberal it does not hurt anybody. If there will be more attack by Muslim extremist the situation will turn sour and there will be more hate against Muslims. So it is also on the Muslims to make their religion more liberal.

    The most extremists come from mosques that are financed from Saudi-arabia in my country but I think that is true of every country (that they are mostly from that Wahabit mosques). I think every country should stop the money of a foreign country and they should finance themselves and teach according to the constitution.

    If Muslims hate Non-believers, women etc... it is xenophobic and against the constitution for example.
     
  8. Amin

    Amin Junior Member

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    No body hates you , the fact that 99 percent of Muslims are peaceful is undeniable . Those verses are there because there revealed at time when Muslims were defending themselves from atrocities at specific time and need. to completely take them out of context and apply them in 21 century only invalidates your own reasoning and logic.

    So what if a few Muslims have gone rogue and killed innocent people in the name is Islam. We have reject their way of thinking and how they want to portray Islam does that mean all Muslims are supporting terrorist ?

    When you are claiming things come with proof or stay silent. dont utter the words of extremist rights and Islamophobic viewpoint and generalize Muslims in one corner , you are only supporting the terroristic agenda and their hate propaganda.
     
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  9. alpha centauri

    alpha centauri Junior Member

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    They are not all terrorists. There is negative and positive ideology in that religion as in every other religion. That negative ideology can lead to hate. On the contrary the positive ideology can help to evolve.

    If you want proof of a claim just ask. I can deliver it to all claims i have made here.

    In a way all other religions are islamophobic just as the Islam is also phobic of all other religions.

    All religions have truth in them. In my opinion, it is very arrogant to claim that a religion such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism or Christianity is the only truth because that also means that every other religion or teaching is totally wrong.

    There probably isnt a teaching without flaws on this planet, but there are a lot of people who claim they have a flawless religion. I think that (and the financial system) is the main problem on the planet. Of course the most religious people recognise this and know that their religion is also wrong in parts.
     
  10. taykair

    taykair Junior Member

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    We should also realize that most Muslims are like most Christians. That is, they accept parts of their own holy books and reject those parts with which they disagree. There are probably as many "Saturday only" Muslims as there are "Sunday only" Christians.

    As for the Muslim scriptures ordering them to kill non-believers - they're not alone:

    When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

    - The Book of Deuteronomy. Chapter 7. Verses 1-6. (KJV)
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
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  11. PaulaJedi

    PaulaJedi Survivor Premium

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    What non-christians don't often realize is that Christianity is based on the New Testament. Jesus was not born in the Old Testament. So, it can appear that we are picking and choosing. The Bible is a history book, but Christianity is based on the New Testament. And the key factors in Christianity are the 10 Commandments.
     
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