Debate There is no "God"

[Weeeeee_Zard]

however if my belief's are right and yours are wrong you will have lost everything even your own soul....

Even if I behave better than a believer?

Even if my entire life is dedicated to help others?

Then your god and your beliefs really suck, sorry bro. But there is NO LOVE in that statement. would lovely Jesus say that?

God is love? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I do what I do because of pure love, I don't want heaven and I don't want a false idol to "like" me.

However, I much rather hang out in hell with rockstars and strippers than in heaven with nuns and uptight nerds.

 

[kcwildman]

well yeh HE did say that very thing on several occasion's. HE used diffrent words but the meaning was the same. HE said..
I am the way, the truth, and the life.
he that believe's in ME has life, and he that believe's not in ME has not life..

the love in that statement is found in the free will choice of each person to decide what they will believe.. however the choice of believing something in no way makes it a truth. many people, believe many things that simply are not true, never have been, and never will be. yet niether you, or I, or even there own mother can convince them of it.

GOD can, but will not force anyone to believe, or do anything. it is now, and always has been 100% there own choice to make.

as to how we behave weather good or bad, the behavor itself is simply an outward example /manifestation of the basic principles we accept/ hold as truth's of our belief system.

if your belief system is based on GOD then your basic actions in life will be aligned with HIS two primary comandments stated by CHRIST
1st
to love GOD with all that your are
2nd
to love your neighbor/brother as you love yourself
or as you stated your actions are the result of pure love for your fellow man

how ever if your belief system is one of no GOD at all .... then there is no standard for what is good or bad, right or wrong... it becomes a pain or pleasure/ personal choice based system. which sometimes is ok at best, but most of the time it's not so good , as some people's idea of what is right and wrong are not so much fun for the rest of the people.

I guess it all comes down to/back to one question???
where did we come from/how did we come into being..

 

[Weeeeee_Zard]

HE said..
I am the way, the truth, and the life.
he that believe's in ME has life, and he that believe's not in ME has not life..

That cant possibly be coming from Jesus, I assume it was added by Paul or other authority to control the mass as its a threat. you might as well say: "do as i say or die"

the love in that statement is found in the free will choice of each person to decide what they will believe..

Are you serious? Love? what if I tell my son, obey me or I kill you, your choice...

however the choice of believing something in no way makes it a truth. many people, believe many things that simply are not true, never have been, and never will be. yet niether you, or I, or even there own mother can convince them of it.

Most of the world is Muslim... go ask them what happen if you are not Muslim and find the love behind their belief system. (because its also a religion of love, right?)

GOD can, but will not force anyone to believe, or do anything. it is now, and always has been 100% there own choice to make.

There is no such a thing of freedom of choice with such a threat, eternal punishment and I will take your soul and blah, blah. C'mon that is obvious as a gun in your head if it was true.

as to how we behave weather good or bad, the behavor itself is simply an outward example /manifestation of the basic principles we accept/ hold as truth's of our belief system love and ETHICS.

As i said before, not all of us are delusional.

if your belief system is based on GOD CHRISTIAN, then your basic actions in life will be aligned with HIS two primary comandments stated by CHRIST
1st
to love GOD with all that your are
2nd
to love your neighbor/brother as you love yourself
or as you stated your actions are the result of pure love for your fellow man ALL EXISTENCE (not androcentric here, thank you)

how ever if your belief system is one of no GOD at all .... then there is no standard for what is good or bad, right or wrong...(1) it becomes a pain or pleasure/ personal choice based system. which sometimes is ok at best, but most of the time it's not so good , as some people's idea of what is right and wrong are not so much fun for the rest of the people.(2)

1- Are you serious? So you believe that non-believers lack of morality, ethics, common sense, love and compassion? I must assume that you would be a good soldier for a crusade or a witch-hunt.

2- Exactly, usually religious people oppress and abuse others too, e.i. gay people with homophobia or women with machismo or even get involved in legislation that affect everyone's freedom of choice which contradicts their belief system and proves that they are religions of hate.

If you are really sure of your claims, please spare tedious 45min to watch this video that explains why I think there is a flaw in your thinking about morality:

I guess it all comes down to/back to one question???
where did we come from/how did we come into being..

I don't know if that is at the bottom of the philosophical wondering. That is for sure a question that science has yet to have a solid answer for, but that doesn't prove any other fantastic hypotheses right, because there is many.

At the very bottom of the wondering is the wondering, and to be ok with not knowing the answer is key. Not knowing leads to more wondering and research instead of accepting an absolutist fairy tale as an explanation for our existence. A fairy tale that condemns us to eternal punishment and pain if we doubt it.

Again, I have read and studied the bible in depth, a bit of the qur'an, bhagavad gita, and other myths. That way, I have a platform for an articulated conversation. I invite you kcwildman to get a glimpse of my philosophy about belief, please watch this 10min video:

 

[Weeeeee_Zard]

oh yeh.. almost forgot Paul, was a tent maker by trade... however at the time of his conversion he was on a campain to eliminate the Christians from the face of the earth.. being sent to dumascus by the temple priest. he was of the jewish sect called the pharisee's, and had been present being one of the accusers and even held the coats of those who were active in the stoning of Stephen the first Christian martyr...

seems odd that one who was so dead sent against the beliefs of Christians was to become one of the most active and famous of the apostles for CHRIST..

Or was it to eliminate them all and then write the roman version of the story and make it the official religion?

 

[kcwildman]

believing in CHRIST is not a religion it is a way of life.. in fact HIS whole focus was the destruction of the religious world of the day . teaching rather to turn to GOD our father. not the tyrrant with a club waiting to beat the bad people.

as for the half truths in the videos, if you have studied the BIBLE in depth as you claim then you should have caught them as quickly as I did.

however just reading something does not make a study of it, which is more than likely all you did. I'll almost bet you never even looked for, or read any of the many, many other books of scripture that were and are available. those that give a very diffrent view of who, and what GOD is, and what HIS feelings for and about us are.......

sorry but the basic premiss of the videos has been around for many years and it was wrong the first time it was dreamed up and it's still wrong now.

you have much to learn befor you contimplate the exsistance of god. but sadly you will listen to and believe those who would tell you that man is nothing more than an animal...

first it would be wise to come to grips with the origin of man, how we came to be, how the animals came to be, why we are so diffrent, how the plants came to be.. why nothing has ever evolved beyond there current state. why even the dinosaurs never evolved beyond there begining state.. but rather just died off rather quickly... the simple stuff of the universe..

then you atleast will have a point of refrence for contiplating the realm of the spirit world and what does or does not exsist there.. your science and logic will only take you so far, then as the videos do you will use circular reasoning to try and make a point that is just plain wrong.

there are far more things in this universe than we are aware of . our senses of only a three demensional exsistance limit us to notice a very small portion of what is out there around us. meaning if we don't see it , can't touch it, don't smell it, can't hear it, .....well then by golly it just can't be real or even exsist now can it...
however yet once again you will tell me I am delusional.. I only hope you don't waste to much time with your current line of thinking befor you see the folly in it..

good luck in your quest for the truth it would appear you will need it, alot of it

 

[Weeeeee_Zard]

I have been pointing out the flaws in your belief system and book of your choice.

You say there is false claims in the videos I shared with you that I didn't catch, well, please share. Point them out, I want you to educate me then. Otherwise, your statement about the half truths in the videos is dismissed.

Please explain you theory of evolution and why are humans not animals.
As far as I know, we are all equally important. (It takes a lot of love to consider animals your equal)

And that confusing comment about that the current animals don't morph or evolve or something like that... You may want to consider that 10.000 years is not a huge amount of time in terms of evolution. Did you go to science class in school?

So, what would be what I need to do to make sense? Believe in christianity and yhv? Ditch science and evidence?

I don't have the choice to believe, doesn't work like that. Unless I have some brain damage and loose my memory so I can be sold the same crap once again.

There may be a lot of things we don't know about this universe, you are absolutely right. WE DON'T KNOW THEM, that doesn't make your specific favorite god real, the opposite.

There is so many deities people have created that those videos aren't solely based upon disproving the bible. Think out of your bubble, they are not taking about "your" favorite god.

Let me play your game, from my point of view:

If you keep your belief system and I keep been a skeptical, you will live a good life and I will too. No one dies and goes to hell.

 

[Khaos]

1- Are you serious? So you believe that non-believers lack of morality, ethics, common sense, love and compassion?

Not what he said or meant at all. He means that people who turn themselves away from a god/religion, are more likely to abuse guilty pleasures (sins) in life and lack morality. However that really can't be true, I've seen and met religious people of different religions who claim to be honest and caring and good, but turn around and do all the things that they are forbidden to do. I know Jewish who eat pork. I know Christians who commit adultery.

Regarding non believers not having a sense of direction in life, I think that is false. I have a good friend who does not believe in god, he doesn't believe in an afterlife. He says once you die, you are dead, there is nothing afterwards. He is one of the most nicest and respectful people I have met on this earth. And I've met some mean nasty religious people. But then I've met some nice and respectful religious people as well.

 

[Weeeeee_Zard]

Hello Khaos,

I agree with you in all.

but this is what kcwildman said....

He literally said:

if your belief system is NO god, then you don't have a standard of good and bad or right and wrong.

....So this implies that: my parents thought me nothing. And my son will grow up with no standard of good and bad or right and wrong.

 

[kcwildman]

I can not show you what you will not see. you have studied the BIBLE in depth ... yet you have not seen the love of GOD... you have been told of the CHRIST and his coming.... yet you rejected HIM calling HIM a fake and a liar...

you do not wish to learn or even discuss the truth, you wish to prove an invalid point that can not be proven....
one you do not even realy believe your self..... that is why you try so hard to disprove the obvious...

you seek some one's confirmation of a life style that puts you as the ultimate authority on everything.. while having no real responsibility or accountability for your words or actions..

lets face it ok,,,,,realy we are just talking apes after all,,, weak simple minded banana eaters, who just climbed out of the tree's six or seven million years ago....who need a GOD to give our lives some sort of meaning..so uneducated we believe just any old fairy tale handed to us...

as I stated befor no one can be hurried along on the path ..no one can be taught the truth, it must be learned by each of us at our own pace...the best we can hope to do for someone is point in the direction we know it can be found...they must search it out with a genuine desire to find it ....

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.....
there is nothing more I can tell you that you will hear .....

 

[Weeeeee_Zard]

I can not show you what you will not see.

No sir, is not my choice to not see what is not there. You cannot find arguments, don't blame me. You just can't handle this:

"You say there is false claims in the videos I shared with you that I didn't catch, well, please share. Point them out, I want you to educate me then. Otherwise, your statement about the half truths in the videos is dismissed."

Come on, teach me. I'm open to listen but I will debate what I find a flawed argument.

you have studied the BIBLE in depth ...

yes, this is when I realized that I was buying that fantasy because of my ignorance.

yet you have not seen the love of GOD...

agreed. can you? how? explain.

you have been told of the CHRIST and his coming.... yet you rejected HIM calling HIM a fake and a liar...

Really? where did I say that? I called believers delusional, the philosophy flawed... Its a human made myth, the humans that came up with it are liars and/or delusional.

you do not wish to learn or even discuss the truth

False, I'm inviting you to share your points and thoughts, but I will debate (this is a debate thread). Again, don't blame me for your lack of knowledge.

you wish to prove an invalid point that can not be proven....

False, I am proving your particular fantasy wrong, and its quite fun.

one you do not even realy believe your self..... that is why you try so hard to disprove the obvious...

Yes, of course I don't believe it. This is a debate thread, I'm disproving the obviously flawed thinking.

you seek some one's confirmation of a life style that puts you as the ultimate authority on everything... while having no real responsibility or accountability for your words or actions...

I have no clue what you mean with that, please explain. For now its considered "an emotional release" in the form of personal judgment.

lets face it ok,,,,,realy we are just talking apes after all,,, weak simple minded banana eaters, who just climbed out of the tree's six or seven million years ago....

False, we are an animal called human that comes from a variation of hominids that come from primitive primates, we evolved in our own line and apes that come from the same primitive primates evolved as apes in their own line, we are different species that come from the same root.

who need a GOD to give our lives some sort of meaning..so uneducated we believe just any old fairy tale handed to us...

Well that would be you and me and a bunch of people but some like me at some point realize that it was an old fairy tale, just like Santa Claus.

as I stated befor no one can be hurried along on the path ..no one can be taught the truth, it must be learned by each of us at our own pace...the best we can hope to do for someone is point in the direction we know it can be found...they must search it out with a genuine desire to find it ....

I totally agree with this, specially with :" they must search it out with a genuine desire to find it"..... I will add that we have to be open minded tho. Accepting an absolutist explanation (even worse such a fantastic one) is not been open minded, the opposite. And I may disagree with "no one can be taught the truth", you can be taught the truth or a lie. For example, I can choose to lie to my son and tell him that Santa exists or I can just tell him the truth. (sorry, I'm assuming you already realized that Santa isn't real either)

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.....
there is nothing more I can tell you that you will hear .....

Mega Ultra False, this claim is a perfect example why I think that religions or superstition or beliefs like this are negative. You have no clue what wisdom is, I offer you help if you want to learn what it is. "knowledge of the holy molly is understanding" what??? this is such an interesting statement, please tell me why, I really want to know why you said that.

and you just say "the fear of the Lord" which is the real reason why people believe and don't want to debate their fantasy.

"there is nothing more I can tell you that you will hear" Again, I'm reading your posts and answering them so you don't think I'm ignoring you. Don't lie to yourself blaming me for your lack of courage and knowledge to keep debating the topic.

And lastly, I'm sure you are a good guy and all of that. I'm not debating who you are or anything personal. I'm participating in this debate thread, that is all. So please focus on the topic and not in who you want to believe I am at your convenience to drop the ball.

I have said "this debate thread" like 20 times so you realize why I am debating your claims.

Thank you for participating.