Time Travel... nonsense

[KIKIRIKI]

Time Travel... nonsense

Something that has bothered me for some time is that people believe timetravle is actually possible. I haven't researched this topic too much, but I do have this thing called common sense. Time, just like speed, is relative. When you sleep, when you're having fun, when you're watching a movie, time seems to fly by. Yet when you're waiting for someone, waiting in the dentist's office, etc. time seems to sloooooooooow down. I don't know about any of this nonsense that when you go almost as fast as light, you age slower, that could very well be true (and again, that has nothing to do with time, but mearly how atoms act physically). And this is how going "into the future" would be possible. However, going back intime is complete lunacy. Time is nothing but a measurement. Once something happens, it happens and thats that. Nothing someone does will physically rearange all the atoms and energy in the universe to the way they were x days ago. Time is constant. You can change how fast you age, you can change how you precieve time, and thats it. Going back in time is unquestionably impossible.

P.S. I put this in these forums because it's the only forums I found on the net dealing with time travel, and the topic for time travel seems to be full of nothing but political threads.

 

[Doc Brown]

Re: Time Travel... nonsense

^ Welcome to the forums, Kiririki.

I like to believe that time travel is possible and will be invented in the future...although my parents often tell me that I don't have much common sense - I'm too much of a dreamer for that. Like you, I haven't really done much research into the formalities, but time travel, for me, is something nice to believe in/hope for.

 

[Harte]

Re: Time Travel... nonsense

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"KIKIRIKI\")</div>

I haven't researched this topic too much, but I do have this thing called common sense. Time, just like speed, is relative. When you sleep, when you're having fun, when you're watching a movie, time seems to fly by. Yet when you're waiting for someone, waiting in the dentist's office, etc. time seems to sloooooooooow down. I don't know about any of this nonsense that when you go almost as fast as light, you age slower, that could very well be true (and again, that has nothing to do with time, but mearly how atoms act physically). And this is how going \"into the future\" would be possible.
[/b]

You dearth of research is pretty obvious to any of us that have any understanding of the physics of reality. Your statement that "time,...like speed, is relative..." pretty much gives it away. In a similar vein, you could say that color is relative, given a colorblind person will not see green the way you do. But the frequency of green light is not relative, and neither is time "relative" in the way you use that term. What you're talking about is the perception of time. I am talking about the dimension of time.

Time dilation, which you dismiss as "merely.." altering "how atoms act physically" is a real and documented phenomenon. Altering "how atoms act physically" is accomplished by adding or removing energy from them. This is called temperature. Far from having "nothing to do with time", your velocity has everything to do with time. In time dilation, the passage of time itself, relative to an observer at rest, is changed based on the velocity you are traveling with respect to that observer. About this there is absolutely no question and no "easy way out" of explaining it. You have to use Special Relativity. By the way, time dilation occurs at any speed, not just near lightspeed. Time dilation refers to the fact that, while you are moving, the amount of time that you are experiencing as it passes will differ from the amount of time that a stationary observer will experience as it passes, whether it is you or he that selects the time span in question.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"KIKIRIKI\")</div>

However, going back intime is complete lunacy. Time is nothing but a measurement. Once something happens, it happens and thats that. Nothing someone does will physically rearange all the atoms and energy in the universe to the way they were x days ago. Time is constant. You can change how fast you age, you can change how you precieve time, and thats it. Going back in time is unquestionably impossible.
[/b]

True, time is nothing but a measurement. So what? How is that relevant? I mean, a mile is also "nothing but a measurement." Hence, you are unable to travel a mile in more than one direction, using your logic.

You need to keep in mind that the universe is not made up of "space". It's made up of "spacetime". Spacetime is four dimensional. Just as you can travel in any combination of three dimensions in what you think of as space, it is reasonable to assume that you can do so in four dimensions, and in fact you are. We move in the positive direction on the time axis at a normal rate of 1 second per second.

Time is constant? Nothing could be further from the truth. By the way, how can you say time is relative and time is constant in the same post? What happened to logical thought around here? Haven't "researched this topic too much" either, eh?

You probably (certainly) do not know that the General Theory of Relativity actually predicted time travel into the past, do you? Granted, it would have taken a huge gravity well the size of a black hole. Since those days, it's been discovered that black hole geometry is different that had been assumed by Einstein and Rosen, making the geometry of space around a black hole impossible to use for time travel. However, this does not invalidate the idea at all, it just means that spacetime must undergo a more controlled warping, something that may well lie beyond our capabilities forever, but possibly not.

Harte

 

[KIKIRIKI]

Re: Time Travel... nonsense

See thats the kind of explanation I don't understand. As much sense as your explanation of 4 dimensions existing, using blackholes, dialating time, and all that other good stuff makes, I think you've lost sight of what you're really trying to do. Keep it simple, you're literally trying to move back every atom and energy in the universe back to ow it was x amount of time ago. Thats what you say is possible... and I think thats insane.

 

[Harte]

Re: Time Travel... nonsense

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"KIKIRIKI\")</div>

See thats the kind of explanation I don't understand. As much sense as your explanation of 4 dimensions existing, using blackholes, dialating time, and all that other good stuff makes, I think you've lost sight of what you're really trying to do. Keep it simple, you're literally trying to move back every atom and energy in the universe back to ow it was x amount of time ago. Thats what you say is possible... and I think thats insane.[/b]

Kikiriki,
I would agree that moving every atom back to it's position at an earlier time is folly. It is also not what is necessary for time travel. It is necessary that the traveler have a means of escaping the confines of the three dimensional construct we think of as space. Then he only need move himself to the point (4 dimensional) in spacetime that he wants to visit.

What you describe (moving every atom in creation) is absolutely impossible. Of course, if you fabricate an impossibility and put it in the way of the possible, it does tend to make the possible look impossible. That is, it appears to me that you have constructed a straw man that you can shoot down and thus win some "argument."

Now, if you don't want to believe that time travel is at least possible, you are welcome to your belief. Your belief is wrong, but you are welcome to it. But you have come to a time travel forum to post your opinion, surely you expected to get some response.

While I realize that you are not a physicist, it is not hard to find understandable reading materials on the web concerning the Einstein-Rosen bridge. For example:

Many scientists in Einstein's day refused to accept his results because the equations led to the possibility of time travel. Theoretically, the Special Theory of Relativity allows travel into the future, while the General Theory, under exotic conditions, allows travel into the past. However, the energy and the technology required to accomplish either of these feats are far beyond what anyone in the foreseeable future can dream to use. Using Einstein's theories of relativity, time travel into the future and past are theoretically possible, but are not feasible.

This quote came from http://xar.us/stuff/papers/time_travel/.

As I said, this particular type of travel has been ruled out due to the particular geometry of black holes. But the use of such a "bridge" cannot be ruled out given the technology to create one. Of course, that's a big given.
Try any site you find HERE for more info.

Harte

 

[KIKIRIKI]

Re: Time Travel... nonsense

So what is this 4th dimension? Maybe we have a different definition of traveling back in time... mine is as I've stated, moving all atoms/energies back to how they were x amount of days ago. That makes traveling back in time impossible. So what's your defenition of traveling back in time that makes it possible Harte?

 

[Omega]

Re: Time Travel... nonsense

You ever see the movie Slaughterhouse 5 I reccomend it, gives you another idea of time travel.

 

[Omega]

Re: Time Travel... nonsense

Harte you can not tell anyone their beliefs are wrong until you prove them wrong, do you have concrete proof of time travel? Until then its all theories and speculation (and my favorite) its your opinion. I am waiting for the day when an intelligent species arrives on this planet and announces "Sorry but you got it all wrong." The problem with intelligent people is they think they are smarter till an even smarter person comes along. In other words being smart is relative to the people you are around.

 

[ironside100]

Re: Time Travel... nonsense

I presume that KIKIRIKI would do some reading up on the subject that he passes comment on though, rather than just going on what he knows at the moment and claiming it is the definitive truth, wouldnt you?

Clearly Harte has researched the topic. Im not saying that he is correct or that he isnt, Its just that he has attempted to back his opinion up with some level of evidence and explanation. Granted KIKIRIKI did give some explanation but claiming it is "unquestionably impossible" with little in the way of proof except "common sense" comes across as ill-informed and arrogant. This entire forum is geared towards the possibility of time travel, True it may not be possible now but who knows what amazing advances may be invented in the future.

 

[thenumbersix]

Re: Time Travel... nonsense

I hate to say it, but well slapped down Harte, that post deserved it..

Keep going though KIKIRIKI and hi, the only way to learn is to question and you're doing allright

Einstein has shown that time isn't constant, only the speed of light ? Here's some reading and experimental proof :

In 1971, a team of scientists who were experts in the use of atomic clocks set out to detect and measure time dilation and other relativistic effects. The research team was able to devise a cheap and effective plan, which received some support from the Office of Naval Research. We are told that the researchers purchased three around-the-world tickets on regularly scheduled commercial airliners-two tickets for the accompanying scientists and one for an array of four atomic clocks. The clock array had its own seat; it sat, belted in for safety, between its two caretakers. Before leaving on the trip, the clocks were synchronized with a master clock at the U.S. Naval Observatory. The four clocks then went around the world, following which they were compared again with their counterpart, which had stayed behind at the Naval Observatory. After correcting for the rotation of the earth and the variation of the force of gravity with altitude, it was found that the clocks that had been in motion in their journey around the earth had in fact slowed as compared with the clock at the Naval Observatory, and by exactly the amount predicted by the theory of relativity. The result was further confirmed in a second around-the-world flight in the opposite direction.

The Elasticity of Time


True, the forums are very full of political threads, this is probably a bit of a fallout from John Titor, look him up on Google, and we've argued ourselves out on the physics and come to the conclusion that until it is done nobody really knows !!

We are all currently busy building our prototypes, the politicing is to decide which year will be the safest to jump to !!