US civil war

CaryP

Senior Member
Messages
1,432
US civil war

Here's an article on the event. And Darkwolf, I don't see the media desperately trying to find bad news out of Iraq. There's so much bad news they only broadcast the most dramatic stuff. Try looking at European news sources for a much different perspective. Most of what we get in the States on major media outlets is very "sanitized". No wonder the rest of the world looks crazy to most Americans, and most Americans look crazy to the rest of the world.

Here's the article.

Unit Refused Iraq Mission, Military Says

Unit Refused Iraq Mission, Military Says
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Oct 16, 5:44 AM (ET)

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN


WASHINGTON (AP) - Relatives of soldiers who refused to deliver supplies in Iraq say the troops considered the mission too dangerous, in part because their vehicles were in poor shape.

The Army is investigating up to 19 reservist members of a platoon that is part of the 343rd Quartermaster Company, based in Rock Hill, S.C. The unit delivers food, water and fuel on trucks in combat zones.

Convoys in Iraq are frequently subject to ambushes and roadside bombings.

Some of the troops' safety concerns were being addressed, military officials said. But a coalition spokesman in Baghdad said \"a small number of the soldiers involved chose to express their concerns in an inappropriate manner, causing a temporary breakdown in discipline.\"

The coalition said in a statement Saturday that the troops are \"not being guarded or detained. They are being interviewed. They're taking statements.\"

But the relatives said they were told the soldiers had been confined.

Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., who said her daughter, Amber McClenny, was among in the platoon, received a phone message from her early Thursday morning saying they had been detained by U.S. military authorities.

\"This is a real, real, big emergency,\" McClenny said in her message. \"I need you to contact someone. I mean, raise pure hell.\"

McClenny said in her message that her platoon had refused to go on a fuel-hauling convoy to Taji, north of Baghdad. \"We had broken down trucks, non-armored vehicles and, um, we were carrying contaminated fuel. They are holding us against our will. We are now prisoners,\" she said.

Hill said she was later contacted by Spc. Tammy Reese in Iraq, who was calling families of the soldiers.

\"She told me (Amber) was being held in a tent with armed guards,\" said Hill, who spoke with her daughter Friday afternoon after her release. Her daughter said they are facing punishment ranging from a reprimand to a charge of mutiny.

The incident was first reported Friday by The Clarion-Ledger newspaper in Jackson, Miss. Family members told the newspaper that several platoon members had been confined.

The supply route the soldiers were to have used, is among the most dangerous in Iraq. The military calls it \"Main Supply Route Tampa.\" Many soldiers have been wounded there by roadside bombs and rifle and rocket-propelled grenade fire.

A commanding general has ordered the unit to undergo a \"safety-maintenance stand down,\" during which it will conduct no further missions as the unit's vehicles are inspected, the military said.

On Wednesday, 19 members of the platoon did not show up for a scheduled 7 a.m. meeting in Tallil, in southeastern Iraq, to prepare for the fuel convoy's departure a few hours later, the military statement said.

\"An initial report indicated that some of the 19 soldiers (not all) refused to participate in the convoy as directed,\" the statement said.

The mission was ultimately carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.

Staff Sgt. Christopher Stokes, a 37-year-old chemical engineer from Charlotte, N.C., went to Iraq with the 343rd but had to come home because of an injury. He said reservists were given inferior equipment and tensions in the company had been building since they were deployed in February.

\"It wasn't really safe,\" he said. \"The vehicles are not all that up to par anyway. The armor that they have is homemade. It's not really armor. It's like little steel rails.\"

A whole unit refusing to go on a mission in a war zone would be a significant breach of military discipline. The military statement said the incident \"isolated\" and called the 343rd an experienced unit that performed honorable service in nine months in Iraq.

U.S. military officials said the commanding general of the 13th Corps Support Command., Brig. Gen. James E. Chambers, had appointed his deputy, Col. Darrell Roll, to investigate. An investigative team under Roll is in Tallil, questioning soldiers about the incident, the military said.

\"Preliminary findings indicate that there were several contributing factors that led to the late convoy incident and alleged refusal to participate by some soldiers,\" the military said. \"It would be inappropriate to discuss those factors while the investigation continues.\"

Separately, the commander of the 300th Area Support Group, listed on a military Web site as Col. Pamela Adams, has ordered a criminal inquiry to determine if any soldiers committed crimes under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and, if so, whether disciplinary measures are warranted.

The platoon has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina, said Hill.
 

Timescholar

Junior Member
Messages
105
US civil war

Originally posted by bahli84@Oct 15 2004, 01:08 PM
Okay so I read an article about John Titor in my school's newspaper and was very intrigued. I went home, and read most of the website johntitor.com. And I was excited coz how cool would it be if he was real. However I noticed 2 things. 1) when asked if any planets had been discovered in his town, JT said none that he knew of. Sedna was discovered in 2003 I believe, either way, after 2001 when JT made his posts. Thing #2) JT says that civil war breaks out in the United States in 2004. It is currently Oct15'04. I will be surprised if a civil war breaks out in the next 2 and a half months. ?:flirt:

I don't remember reading about him talking about any new planets, but Sedna is a moon, not a planet.
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
US civil war

On the civil rights front, heres some good news for a change. >:D<

By C.G. WALLACE, Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA - Fears of a terrorist attack are not sufficient reason for authorities to search people at a protest, a federal appeals court has ruled, saying Sept. 11 "cannot be the day liberty perished."



A three-judge panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) ruled unanimously Friday that protesters may not be required to pass through metal detectors when they gather next month for a rally against a U.S. training academy for Latin American soldiers.


Authorities began using the metal detectors at the annual School of the Americas protest after the 2001 terrorist attacks, but the court found that practice to be unconstitutional.


"We cannot simply suspend or restrict civil liberties until the War on Terror is over, because the War on Terror is unlikely ever to be truly over," Judge Gerald Tjoflat wrote for the panel. "Sept. 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country."


City officials in Columbus, Ga., contended the searches were needed because of the elevated risk of terrorism, but the court threw out that argument, saying it would "eviscerate the Fourth Amendment."


"In the absence of some reason to believe that international terrorists would target or infiltrate this protest, there is no basis for using Sept. 11 as an excuse for searching the protesters," the court said.


Columbus Mayor Bob Poydasheff and Police Chief Willie Dozier did not immediately return messages seeking comment left Saturday by The Associated Press.


Michael Greenberger, law professor and director of the University of Maryland's Center for Health and Homeland Security, said the ruling could have broader implications if it is used to challenge aspects of the Patriot Act.


It was surprising, he said, coming from the conservative-leaning 11th Circuit, based in Atlanta, but the opinion was "very well reasoned" and reflected "conventional application of constitutional principles."


The Rev. Roy Bourgeois, a priest who founded the protest group called SOA Watch, praised the ruling for safeguarding essential rights.


"I felt that they were using 9/11 as an excuse, along with the Patriot Act, to interfere with our First Amendment rights," he said. "They are using this to get around what the Constitution is really rooted in."


The metal detectors caused long lines and congestion outside the protest area, he said, comparing it to routing 10,000 people through a single security gate at an airport.


"It was not just an inconvenience, it was a nightmare. We couldn't get to the place of assembly in an orderly fashion," he said.


About 15,000 demonstrators attend the annual vigil, demanding the closing of the center formerly known as the School of the Americas. The facility at Fort Benning was reopened in January 2001 as the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation.


The protests began in 1990. This year's demonstration is scheduled for Nov. 20-21.


__


On
 

Judge Bean

Senior Member
Messages
1,257
US civil war

Originally posted by Darkwolf@Oct 16 2004, 08:23 PM
On the civil rights front, heres some good news for a change. ?>:D<

By C.G. WALLACE, Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA - Fears of a terrorist attack are not sufficient reason for authorities to search people at a protest, a federal appeals court has ruled, saying Sept. 11 \"cannot be the day liberty perished.\"

?

A three-judge panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) ruled unanimously Friday that protesters may not be required to pass through metal detectors when they gather next month for a rally against a U.S. training academy for Latin American soldiers.


Authorities began using the metal detectors at the annual School of the Americas protest after the 2001 terrorist attacks, but the court found that practice to be unconstitutional.


\"We cannot simply suspend or restrict civil liberties until the War on Terror is over, because the War on Terror is unlikely ever to be truly over,\" Judge Gerald Tjoflat wrote for the panel. \"Sept. 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country.\"


City officials in Columbus, Ga., contended the searches were needed because of the elevated risk of terrorism, but the court threw out that argument, saying it would \"eviscerate the Fourth Amendment.\"


\"In the absence of some reason to believe that international terrorists would target or infiltrate this protest, there is no basis for using Sept. 11 as an excuse for searching the protesters,\" the court said.


Columbus Mayor Bob Poydasheff and Police Chief Willie Dozier did not immediately return messages seeking comment left Saturday by The Associated Press.


Michael Greenberger, law professor and director of the University of Maryland's Center for Health and Homeland Security, said the ruling could have broader implications if it is used to challenge aspects of the Patriot Act.


It was surprising, he said, coming from the conservative-leaning 11th Circuit, based in Atlanta, but the opinion was \"very well reasoned\" and reflected \"conventional application of constitutional principles.\"


The Rev. Roy Bourgeois, a priest who founded the protest group called SOA Watch, praised the ruling for safeguarding essential rights.


\"I felt that they were using 9/11 as an excuse, along with the Patriot Act, to interfere with our First Amendment rights,\" he said. \"They are using this to get around what the Constitution is really rooted in.\"


The metal detectors caused long lines and congestion outside the protest area, he said, comparing it to routing 10,000 people through a single security gate at an airport.


\"It was not just an inconvenience, it was a nightmare. We couldn't get to the place of assembly in an orderly fashion,\" he said.


About 15,000 demonstrators attend the annual vigil, demanding the closing of the center formerly known as the School of the Americas. The facility at Fort Benning was reopened in January 2001 as the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation.


The protests began in 1990. This year's demonstration is scheduled for Nov. 20-21.


__


On

This is why we call it "The New South," right Cary?

Some of the Circuit Courts of Appeal will be at odds on this issue with the eventual Supreme Court decision on the precise effects of the Patriot Act. The Court can run but it can't hide from the need to make that decision sooner or later. How many rights can the Patriot Act trample in detail? The potential list is endless, and each one is a potential Supreme Court case.

It is good news anyway, I agree. Good to know that there are so many Americans out there still in positions of power who have their wits about them, too.
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
US civil war

What will they do when it is taken away from them in a financial crisis? No, they're not revolutionaries by nature, but losing their house, SUV and middle class lifestyle will put them in a really bad mood. Watching their families go without medical care and adequate food, shelter, etc. will push them over the brink. The middle class is being targeted

And the next president will probably get to nominate four justices. I don't know how the pollitical situation could get worse, but I'm sure I'll frnd out.
 

iooqxpooi

Member
Messages
173
US civil war

First off, it really would not be cool. Would you like to have a nuclear war? ANd second off, the battling part of the war(according to JT) starts in 2008. This would be the time that the public begins becoming angrier and angrier at the gov.
 

Darkwolf

Active Member
Messages
713
US civil war

First off, it really would not be cool. Would you like to have a nuclear war? ANd second off, the battling part of the war(according to JT) starts in 2008. This would be the time that the public begins becoming angrier and angrier at the gov.
Darkwolf Posted Today, 06:57 PM

Huh? I don't believe I said I wanted it to happen. Didn't want Clinton to become president either, Guess the universe doesn't ask me. I'm just making observations on a hypothetical situation as compared to reality.
 

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