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Spirituality & Mysticism
Who is the real God ?
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<blockquote data-quote="TimeWizardCosmo" data-source="post: 81944" data-attributes="member: 2"><p>...Hang on. You're using television shows on H2 about miracles and Muslims being converted to Christianity as proof of your beliefs?</p><p></p><p>Firstly, miracles have not been demonstrated to occur. The existence of a miracle would pose logical problems (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox" target="_blank">Omnipotence paradox</a>) for belief in a god which can supposedly see the future and began the universe with a set of predefined laws. Even if a ‘miracle’ could be demonstrated it would not immediately imply the existence of a god as that'd constitute a non-sequitur, much less any particular god, i.e. your Christian god (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_inconsistent_revelations" target="_blank">Argument from inconsistent revelations</a>), as unknown natural processes or agents could still explain said phenomenon (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps" target="_blank">God of the gaps</a>).</p><p></p><p>What I often see is supporters of religion failing to adequately <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma" target="_blank">apportion blame</a> when claims of their particular god’s ‘infinite mercy’ or ‘omnibenevolence’ involve sparing a few lives in a disaster, or recovery from a debilitating disease – all of which their god would ultimately be <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil" target="_blank">responsible for inflicting</a> if it existed.</p><p></p><p>See also: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma" target="_blank">Euthyphro dilemma</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias" target="_blank">Confirmation bias</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_%28fallacy%29" target="_blank">Cherry Picking</a>.</p><p></p><p>I don't mean to dismantle every post I see like this and I know I appear somewhat aggressive in my views, but it's not meant that way (although I don't see how it's ultimately any different from telling people they need Jesus). I would like to see a real discussion where the merits of my arguments can be challenged, rather than one-sided magical thinking where no real response is given when questioned.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TimeWizardCosmo, post: 81944, member: 2"] ...Hang on. You're using television shows on H2 about miracles and Muslims being converted to Christianity as proof of your beliefs? Firstly, miracles have not been demonstrated to occur. The existence of a miracle would pose logical problems (see [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox']Omnipotence paradox[/URL]) for belief in a god which can supposedly see the future and began the universe with a set of predefined laws. Even if a ‘miracle’ could be demonstrated it would not immediately imply the existence of a god as that'd constitute a non-sequitur, much less any particular god, i.e. your Christian god (see [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_inconsistent_revelations']Argument from inconsistent revelations[/URL]), as unknown natural processes or agents could still explain said phenomenon (see [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps']God of the gaps[/URL]). What I often see is supporters of religion failing to adequately [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma']apportion blame[/URL] when claims of their particular god’s ‘infinite mercy’ or ‘omnibenevolence’ involve sparing a few lives in a disaster, or recovery from a debilitating disease – all of which their god would ultimately be [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil']responsible for inflicting[/URL] if it existed. See also: [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma']Euthyphro dilemma[/URL], [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias']Confirmation bias[/URL], [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_%28fallacy%29']Cherry Picking[/URL]. I don't mean to dismantle every post I see like this and I know I appear somewhat aggressive in my views, but it's not meant that way (although I don't see how it's ultimately any different from telling people they need Jesus). I would like to see a real discussion where the merits of my arguments can be challenged, rather than one-sided magical thinking where no real response is given when questioned. [/QUOTE]
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