any Flat Earth adherents out there ???

wyldberi

Junior Member
Messages
76
Last week I fell asleep watching a YouTube video about something quite inconsequential. When I woke up several hours later, YouTube was still going. Somehow a program setting on my system got ticked that automatically plays the next video in the queue on the right side of the screen, creating an endless loop.
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Anyway, when I woke up I found myself back at the JFK assassination. Over the next several days I leafed through a lot of conspiracy videos on many different subjects. The one that sticks out is the one mentioned above in the thread header.
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Over the last several months it seems the topic of the earth actually being flat has become quite the thing. I was wondering who here might have come across this themselves, and what their ideas on the topic might be.
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Apparently, back in the 1500's a group of intellectuals formed "The Flat Earth Society." It looks like the organization has been in continuous existence since its founding. The basic premise was that all the arguments and "scientific" proofs offered to support the Copernican heliocentric model of the solar system cannot be actually observed. Instead, they choose to retain the previous geocentric model.
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To spice things up, a competing organization was founded long ago that ostensibly supports the idea of a flat earth. Unfortunately, the information and publicity they put out is deliberately designed to be easily debunked. This subverts the work of the original organization, and serves as a early version of the typical disinformation campaign we so often see in operation these days.
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The latest batch of individuals who are currently popularizing this theory are a mixture of ex-NASA employees, fundamentalist Christians, seemingly legitimate scientists, and some conspiracy theorist types whose "research" led them to stumble upon and latch onto this theory.
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I seem to fit into the latter group. So far I've watched quite a few of the YouTube videos on the subject but haven't had time to digest the information or come to any conclusions of my own. It's easy to spot some of the bigger "kooks." There are also quite a few lurkers who seem to be devoted to "debunking' the more legitimate sounding proponents of the idea.
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One proof offered to support the flat earth theory is the fact that the horizon does not actually behave the way it should according to the laws of physics. Basically, at a distance of 6-8 miles, the curvature of the earth's surface should prevent an observer standing on the surface of the earth from seeing the object. It can be demonstrated that's just not the case.
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The conspiracy encompasses the role of NASA which is claimed to be a NAZI organization. That's something many people won't accept; myself, that's definitely a prime cornerstone of my current world view. It's a known fact that Project Paperclip was created by American fascists to make it possible to bring NAZI scientists and intelligence officers into the USA. Once here, they continued the work they had been doing for the Fuehrer and the Fatherland, and made an inordinately large impact upon the shaping of American domestic and foreign policy. Today, we live in a nation where the "homeland" has replaced the notion of "fatherland," Constitutional freedoms have been curtailed, and corporations control the government for their own benefit at the expense of the individual citizen.
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At the root of the flat earth theory is the concept that the earth is a flat disk shaped like a polar projection map showing the North Pole at the center. The oceans and continental land masses are bounded by a wall of ice several hundred feet high that encircles everything else. On the spherical projection of the earth we see on a globe, this wall becomes the continent of Antarctica.
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As it stands, there is an international treaty administered by the United Nations that limits access to Antarctica. Warships from several nations prevent unauthorized persons from going there. It is suggested by some that beyond the wall of ice lies new uninhabited lands, and that the boundaries of the earth extend far beyond that barrier.
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The bottom line is that our current satellite technology and efforts to put man into space is a dog and pony show to keep the masses believing the intellectualized concept of reality we were brainwashed into believing as children by the education we received.
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Any takers on this one?
 
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Num7

Administrator
Staff
Messages
12,459
I've read quite a lot about flat Earth theories a few years ago and I really like to read arguments from both sides. It's such a fundamental debate, and we're so totally sure the world is a sphere that I think it's interesting to consider the opposite just for the sake of arguing.

That said, yes, I believe the Earth is a sphere.

Theoretically, how many feet difference are we talking about when considering the Earth's curvature over, let's say, 10 miles? In other words, what's the smallest object I'm supposed to be able to see from a distance of 10 miles?
 

TimeFlipper

Senior Member
Messages
13,705
At sea level i think 3 to 5 miles is maximum for observing the horizon..
 

wyldberi

Junior Member
Messages
76
To restate the question, what is the distance of the horizon from a given observation point at sea level, and how much more distant does an object 100 feet tall need to be to disappear beyond the horizon?

Here's a link to one Flat Earth site. I don't know if this is the "legitimate" site or if it belongs to the subversive organization:
Frequently Asked Questions - The Flat Earth Wiki
It didn't have an answer as to the distance and earth's curvature causing structures and objects to be un-viewable at sea level.

There's an interesting question arising in my mind as I search for an answer to the question. Scientists are still debating what the actual diameter of the earth is. The Flat Earth adherents believe all space travel beyond earth's atmosphere is faked. That's a fundamental principle to them. If space travel is being conducted around a spherical earth, why don't scientists simply measure the diameter and circumference of the earth from a high vantage point? That should be a straightforward task with a clear objective result. Instead, there are current debates going on about whether the earth has a spherical, ellipsoid, ovoid, Geoid, or some other shape.
Figure of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a webpage that shows some of the math involved, and it has a couple of easy to use calculators. In a basic simplified scenario at a viewing height of 6 feet the horizon should be approximately 3 miles distant.
Earth Curvature for Highpointers

It's late and I can't deal with math right now. I'll look for more info tomorrow. There's one video where a guy said what these measurements should be. I'll have to find that.
 

wyldberi

Junior Member
Messages
76
I tracked down the video I'd watched previously at:

The chart below is shown at approx. 55 minutes into the video:

From a given observation point on a spherical object having a circumference of 25,000 miles,
there will be an apparent elevation loss in all directions as the distance from the observation
point increases. The geometrical calculations work out to:

1 mile = 8 inches
2 miles = 32 inches
3 miles = 6 feet
4 miles = 10 feet
5 miles = 16 feet
6 miles = 24 feet
7 miles = 32 feet
8 miles = 42 feet
9 miles = 54 feet
10 miles = 66 feet
20 miles = 266 feet
30 miles = 600 feet
40 miles = 1056 feet
50 miles = 1666 feet
60 miles = 2400 feet
70 miles = 3266 feet
80 miles = 4266 feet
90 miles = 5400 feet
100 miles = 6666 feet
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If you have a tree or a wall section 10 feet high, and drive 4 miles away down a straight and level road
you should still be able to see the top of the tree/wall. If you drive 1/2 mile further, the wall should be
entirely below the horizon due to the curvature of the earth's surface.
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This is all theory and I haven't tried to verify this. For one thing, my math is pretty much limited to things
like bookkeeping and tax preparation; I've done virtually no geometry since college which was a long
time ago. But the circumference of the earth is generally reported to be approximately 25,000 miles and
I have no reason to doubt the calculations shown in the chart.
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If you back the video up to 49 or 50 minutes you'll see the point being made. There's a picture of the Chicago
skyline reportedly taken from the shoreline of Lake Michigan from the State of Michigan. From that spot
Chicago is 60 miles away.
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At 1,451 the Sears Tower in Chicago is the city's tallest building.
At a distance of 60 miles the Chicago skyline and ground level
should have dropped 2,400 feet below the horizon.
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Go figure.
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The video is an interview conducted by someone I've not seen before. He apparently conducts some sort of Bible based ministry. The guy being interviewed and doing most of the talking also seems to have a Bible based presence on the web, but is not a closed-minded fundamentalist Christian -- though from a few comments he made, he may have been in the past. He is approaching the subject from an questioning point of view and engaged in trying to verify the consensual reality we all generally live in.
 

Einstein

Temporal Engineer
Messages
5,426
The math is pretty easy to do. A long time ago I came across a figure of a ships mast being 100 feet tall, that would disappear from view at 13 miles distance. Those two measurements make up two sides of a right triangle. Using the Pythagorean Theorem the length of the third side can be calculated. Knowing the length of all three sides of the triangle allows you to calculate the angle between the hypotenuse and the longer side. Using the rules, "SOH", "CAH", "TOA". Then just divide that angle into 360 degrees. That would give you the number of triangles it would take to surround the earth. If you multiply that number by the length of the hypotenuse, you get an approximate circumference of the earth. At the time I did this, I got around 25,000 miles. I figured this out on my own in the twelfth grade.
 

TheCreator

Junior Member
Messages
103
Flat Earth proponents fail to take into account simple things like the propagation of radio waves, the presence of orbiting satellites, and airline flight paths, all which are real and proven and which are predicated on the gravitational pull and curvature of a sphere. The whole of physics breaks down under the flat earth theory.
 

Ike

Member
Messages
195
To restate the question, what is the distance of the horizon from a given observation point at sea level, and how much more distant does an object 100 feet tall need to be to disappear beyond the horizon?

Here's a link to one Flat Earth site. I don't know if this is the "legitimate" site or if it belongs to the subversive organization:
Frequently Asked Questions - The Flat Earth Wiki
It didn't have an answer as to the distance and earth's curvature causing structures and objects to be un-viewable at sea level.

There's an interesting question arising in my mind as I search for an answer to the question. Scientists are still debating what the actual diameter of the earth is. The Flat Earth adherents believe all space travel beyond earth's atmosphere is faked. That's a fundamental principle to them. If space travel is being conducted around a spherical earth, why don't scientists simply measure the diameter and circumference of the earth from a high vantage point? That should be a straightforward task with a clear objective result. Instead, there are current debates going on about whether the earth has a spherical, ellipsoid, ovoid, Geoid, or some other shape.
Figure of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a webpage that shows some of the math involved, and it has a couple of easy to use calculators. In a basic simplified scenario at a viewing height of 6 feet the horizon should be approximately 3 miles distant.
Earth Curvature for Highpointers

It's late and I can't deal with math right now. I'll look for more info tomorrow. There's one video where a guy said what these measurements should be. I'll have to find that.
What do you mean scientists are still debating? The circumference of the earth has been known since ancient times
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
 

wyldberi

Junior Member
Messages
76
To restate the question, what is the distance of the horizon from a given observation point at sea level, and how much more distant does an object 100 feet tall need to be to disappear beyond the horizon?

Here's a link to one Flat Earth site. I don't know if this is the "legitimate" site or if it belongs to the subversive organization:
Frequently Asked Questions - The Flat Earth Wiki
It didn't have an answer as to the distance and earth's curvature causing structures and objects to be un-viewable at sea level.

There's an interesting question arising in my mind as I search for an answer to the question. Scientists are still debating what the actual diameter of the earth is. The Flat Earth adherents believe all space travel beyond earth's atmosphere is faked. That's a fundamental principle to them. If space travel is being conducted around a spherical earth, why don't scientists simply measure the diameter and circumference of the earth from a high vantage point? That should be a straightforward task with a clear objective result. Instead, there are current debates going on about whether the earth has a spherical, ellipsoid, ovoid, Geoid, or some other shape.
Figure of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a webpage that shows some of the math involved, and it has a couple of easy to use calculators. In a basic simplified scenario at a viewing height of 6 feet the horizon should be approximately 3 miles distant.
Earth Curvature for Highpointers

It's late and I can't deal with math right now. I'll look for more info tomorrow. There's one video where a guy said what these measurements should be. I'll have to find that.
What do you mean scientists are still debating? The circumference of the earth has been known since ancient times
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes


Figure of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
To restate the question, what is the distance of the horizon from a given observation point at sea level, and how much more distant does an object 100 feet tall need to be to disappear beyond the horizon?

Here's a link to one Flat Earth site. I don't know if this is the "legitimate" site or if it belongs to the subversive organization:
Frequently Asked Questions - The Flat Earth Wiki
It didn't have an answer as to the distance and earth's curvature causing structures and objects to be un-viewable at sea level.

There's an interesting question arising in my mind as I search for an answer to the question. Scientists are still debating what the actual diameter of the earth is. The Flat Earth adherents believe all space travel beyond earth's atmosphere is faked. That's a fundamental principle to them. If space travel is being conducted around a spherical earth, why don't scientists simply measure the diameter and circumference of the earth from a high vantage point? That should be a straightforward task with a clear objective result. Instead, there are current debates going on about whether the earth has a spherical, ellipsoid, ovoid, Geoid, or some other shape.
Figure of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a webpage that shows some of the math involved, and it has a couple of easy to use calculators. In a basic simplified scenario at a viewing height of 6 feet the horizon should be approximately 3 miles distant.
Earth Curvature for Highpointers

It's late and I can't deal with math right now. I'll look for more info tomorrow. There's one video where a guy said what these measurements should be. I'll have to find that.
What do you mean scientists are still debating? The circumference of the earth has been known since ancient times
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes


For your benefit I'm posting the link below; it's the same link that was posted in the thread entry above. Here's the like again:
Figure of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which shape pictured at that link represents the actual shape of the earth?
 

Ike

Member
Messages
195

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