StarLord
Senior Member
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Re: Is it worthwhile?
Originally Posted by gl100 
Isn't life expectancy calculated from average life span?
Harte's reply:
Life expectancy depends on how old you already are.
Right. If you start out at the ripe old age of 1 week and any one of the diseases that used to kill folks before Modern Medicine found cures for them, you were a goner a lot sooner than anyone could expect. "Expectancy" goes hand in hand with what progress Medicine has made in helping you to maintain your health. If you are unsure about that premiss, why bother in giving very young children all those shots?
I don't have numbers in front of me but an example would be like when you reach fifty, you can expect to make it to 75.
Now, in this year it's a good expectation, it was not the same case many years ago, as you well know.
Long ago, you wouldn't hit that number as soon.
Time passed differently long ago than it does now?
A newborn could expect to live a year. Maybe two.
Hmmm, did a Geni wave it's arms and everything changed?
That throws off the numbers, as you can imagine.
Once clean water was established (and the horse shit swept from the streets, effluent cleaned, etc.) newborns could expect to live much longer.
And what agency would have determined that having a proper sewer made any difference to people living longer, the Mc Donalds on the corner? Maybe Pat the chemist where everyone chose to purchase their laudanum from?
From StarLord:
So What?
Modern Medicine has changed the numbers all the way down the line.
Simply not the case, as I illustrated with the bible quote about "threescore and ten" years alloted to folks way back then.
You are hedging. I'd be very interested in how many times that number is repeated in all the books of the Bible.
However, taking what could be termed a perfect life, living in an upper class environment and never being touched by disease
70 years seems like a good tour of duty. Unfortunately, these folks don't seem to agree:
Life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Be sure to check out that interesting tidbit listed as "Public Health"... Damn that sux.
From StarLord:
Especially when you take the time to consider that what used to be several life threatening diseases never visit your doorstep and the major advents to less and less non invasive techniques. You also have to include the Modern Medical findings regarding Diet when it comes to being able to live as long as your DNA dictates. Information regarding Arteriolosclerosis, and Atherosclerosis, their causes and what each does to the body and how they differ didn't come from an 8Ball or the Ouija board.
Harte's reply:
Unfortunately, no cure, no truly effective treatment, even, for them has come from any Ouija board either.
Indeed, then as we both know, you are left with but one source for those findings, understanding and cures, Modern Medicine.
From StarLord:
The same goes for the realization that we are not trapped by our DNA and that we can change that DNA through diet.
DNA Is Not Destiny | Genetics | DISCOVER Magazine
Harte's answer:
"That's science, not medicine."
LOL!!!!!!! Once Again, You Are Hedging. Medicine is the science and art (ars medicina) of healing.
Harte said:
Science established the need (and method for obtaining) clean water.
EEERRRNNNTTTTT! Not so my friend, it was people that shit themself to death and died from severe dehydration from drinking that water, or from picking up parasites that killed them later. It was from people who had studied and learned about medicine and became healers/physicians and medical experts and they wanted answers. The people who had studied the arts of healing, not electricians, not Masons, not Mathematicians, not boat wrights, not coopers, not even lawyers, bakers, or astro physicists . It was the people who chose their life's work in the study and development of Medicine wanting to find out how and why people were dieing from drinking that water.
Harte said:
Science might push the idea of what "old age" means further down the road. Medicine has not and apparently won't.
Sorry, that's just plain bass ackwards. Perhaps me growing up around medicine and later studying it for a while, has allowed me to see and experience something different.
Harte
I'm interested to understand why you have such a disparaging view regarding medicine and split hairs to the point you view it solely under the catch all of science? Would you expect an atomic scientist to be able to perform open heart surgery or able to stop a brain hemorrhage or define the specific stage of Diabetes? How about Einstein removing a cyst that's lodged against your cerebral cortex? All of them are well versed in science but lack one important item, the art and the study of that art, healing.
Is it possible that due to atmospheric lawsuits regarding malpractice and supposed malpractice, Doctors are forced to carry debilitating insurance and are forced to pass the cost down? Would it be due to the fact that the AMA in conjunction with big Pharma Corporations and their lobbyists have placed the patient in the position of being a hostage with little or no choice regarding their care? How about how fucked up insurance companies are and excel in paying out the least possible amount?
I'm sure you are aware that there's a very big difference between Medicine and the satellite industries that once fed off of it and have taken over. Unfortunately, healing has become big business in some aspects.
Isn't life expectancy calculated from average life span?
Harte's reply:
Life expectancy depends on how old you already are.
Right. If you start out at the ripe old age of 1 week and any one of the diseases that used to kill folks before Modern Medicine found cures for them, you were a goner a lot sooner than anyone could expect. "Expectancy" goes hand in hand with what progress Medicine has made in helping you to maintain your health. If you are unsure about that premiss, why bother in giving very young children all those shots?
I don't have numbers in front of me but an example would be like when you reach fifty, you can expect to make it to 75.
Now, in this year it's a good expectation, it was not the same case many years ago, as you well know.
Long ago, you wouldn't hit that number as soon.
Time passed differently long ago than it does now?
A newborn could expect to live a year. Maybe two.
Hmmm, did a Geni wave it's arms and everything changed?
That throws off the numbers, as you can imagine.
Once clean water was established (and the horse shit swept from the streets, effluent cleaned, etc.) newborns could expect to live much longer.
And what agency would have determined that having a proper sewer made any difference to people living longer, the Mc Donalds on the corner? Maybe Pat the chemist where everyone chose to purchase their laudanum from?
From StarLord:
So What?
Modern Medicine has changed the numbers all the way down the line.
Simply not the case, as I illustrated with the bible quote about "threescore and ten" years alloted to folks way back then.
You are hedging. I'd be very interested in how many times that number is repeated in all the books of the Bible.
However, taking what could be termed a perfect life, living in an upper class environment and never being touched by disease
70 years seems like a good tour of duty. Unfortunately, these folks don't seem to agree:
Life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Be sure to check out that interesting tidbit listed as "Public Health"... Damn that sux.
From StarLord:
Especially when you take the time to consider that what used to be several life threatening diseases never visit your doorstep and the major advents to less and less non invasive techniques. You also have to include the Modern Medical findings regarding Diet when it comes to being able to live as long as your DNA dictates. Information regarding Arteriolosclerosis, and Atherosclerosis, their causes and what each does to the body and how they differ didn't come from an 8Ball or the Ouija board.
Harte's reply:
Unfortunately, no cure, no truly effective treatment, even, for them has come from any Ouija board either.
Indeed, then as we both know, you are left with but one source for those findings, understanding and cures, Modern Medicine.
From StarLord:
The same goes for the realization that we are not trapped by our DNA and that we can change that DNA through diet.
DNA Is Not Destiny | Genetics | DISCOVER Magazine
Harte's answer:
"That's science, not medicine."
LOL!!!!!!! Once Again, You Are Hedging. Medicine is the science and art (ars medicina) of healing.
Harte said:
Science established the need (and method for obtaining) clean water.
EEERRRNNNTTTTT! Not so my friend, it was people that shit themself to death and died from severe dehydration from drinking that water, or from picking up parasites that killed them later. It was from people who had studied and learned about medicine and became healers/physicians and medical experts and they wanted answers. The people who had studied the arts of healing, not electricians, not Masons, not Mathematicians, not boat wrights, not coopers, not even lawyers, bakers, or astro physicists . It was the people who chose their life's work in the study and development of Medicine wanting to find out how and why people were dieing from drinking that water.
Harte said:
Science might push the idea of what "old age" means further down the road. Medicine has not and apparently won't.
Sorry, that's just plain bass ackwards. Perhaps me growing up around medicine and later studying it for a while, has allowed me to see and experience something different.
Harte
I'm interested to understand why you have such a disparaging view regarding medicine and split hairs to the point you view it solely under the catch all of science? Would you expect an atomic scientist to be able to perform open heart surgery or able to stop a brain hemorrhage or define the specific stage of Diabetes? How about Einstein removing a cyst that's lodged against your cerebral cortex? All of them are well versed in science but lack one important item, the art and the study of that art, healing.
Is it possible that due to atmospheric lawsuits regarding malpractice and supposed malpractice, Doctors are forced to carry debilitating insurance and are forced to pass the cost down? Would it be due to the fact that the AMA in conjunction with big Pharma Corporations and their lobbyists have placed the patient in the position of being a hostage with little or no choice regarding their care? How about how fucked up insurance companies are and excel in paying out the least possible amount?
I'm sure you are aware that there's a very big difference between Medicine and the satellite industries that once fed off of it and have taken over. Unfortunately, healing has become big business in some aspects.
