Is Jesus Azizus Monobaz?

[Sanyam Deshi]

Sanyam Deshi, I'm sorry to sound so disrespectful, but your argument is disorganized without much to respond to. You seem to be making personal attacks based on your feelings without addressing the topic. The topic is that Azizus Monobaz Son of Abgar The Fifth, Abgar The Black, is the historical Jesus. If you can't stay on topic, please, respectfully I say, "Shut up."

I cannot make myself any clearer: there is no proof that your source material is valid, so it's pointless to switch my beliefs from one potentially blind truth to another. It's not a personal attack because I am attacking the idea of your persecution of Christians, but not you as a person. I would appreciate if you addressed my points instead of making excuses to turn a blind-eye to them. This is your opportunity to demonstrate your "100% confidence," but you constantly turn away from it.

I really feel bad sometimes telling you all that Jesus is not God and he is not coming back to save you. I feel like that Bad Santa that pulls his beard off and tells all the little children that Santa is not real. But it is for the best. Very bad people are telling you that Jesus said to destroy the world. And this must stop. NOBODY speaks for Jesus who is Azizus Monobaz in the historical record -- Jesus is dead.

I need not point out your obvious backhanded sympathy. Regardless of the propaganda that you have read that Christianity is a religion with hostile intentions, those are not the teachings of a majority of Christian religions. I want to spread peace in the world and I believe that I can speak for a majority of Christians in the world when I say that they have the same intentions. Why is that something that you wish to stop? Are you actually the one who seeks to destroy the world?

 

[Harte]

"Jesus (according to Luke): "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!"

This is in reference to the friend of Jesus, Matthew the Tax Collector. That would be Josephus Son of Matthew the tax collector for the Romans in Judea. Josephus was the Governor of Galilee. He was captured at the battle for the city of Jotapata and worked out a deal with Titus. Later, Josephus governed all of Judea for the Romans. Sohaemus, the brother of Azizus, governed Syria for the Romans.

I posted the thing in context Ren. I can read, I know what it was about and it wasn't about Matthew, it was about John the Baptist. The quote lifted by Ellis out of context was Jesus himself mocking the Pharisees and lawyers about the way they maintain their (to Him) blinders. Anyone reading that can plainly see it right there in the text.

I suggest you read Luke 7. Don't worry, it won't catch on fire if you touch it.

"To put it bluntly, it don't look so good for Ellis. I don't know how you think, but I think that if an author has to mischaracterize (to the brink of lying about) a thing in order to make his point, then the point is almost never worth even taking note of."

Well I certainly don't think with the bias that you do by making personal attacks on authors.

"Personal attacks?" Yep, there it is folks. Confronted with an inconsistency manufactured by Ellis for the sole purpose of supporting an unimportant part of his own claims, Ren claims I'm making a personal attack.

Let me ask you then, Ren. Was Ellis being truthful in his statement that Jesus was "always" referred to as a glutton and drunkard? Are you not aware, even after I quoted it to you, that those are Jesus' own words Ellis refers to? Is there anyone at all referring to Jesus as a "glutton and a drunkard" anywhere in the New Testament? If not, then what does that say about Ellis' statement?

I'll tell you what it says, since it appears that you are the only one that refuses to actually read and understand what i've said - it says that Ellis is lying. It says that, I proved that, and there's nothing you can do about it except lament Ellis' stupid belief that nobody would bother fact-checking his statements.

Tells you what kind of audience that book was for as well, doesn't it?

You might not like it, but Ellis lied right there where I showed you. It was a stupid lie to boot, apparently only in some tangential attempt to equate an image with that of Jesus. An entirely unneccesary part of his claim, yet he felt compelled to mislead his readers over even this simple little easily removed thing. How much more would he feel compelled to fabricate something where the meat of his claim is involved?

Harte

 

[Ren]

That's libel, Harte.

 

[Harte]

Can you show me where what I have posted is untrue?

Then you don't know what "libel" means.

Harte

 

[Ren]

Telling me to read Luke? I was raised a Southern Baptist Christian and in college I was considering going to seminary and becoming a pastor. I have read the entire Bible more than once. I have also read Josephus. That isn't something many people can say.

Christianity is anything but a religion that spreads peace. Just read about the Jesuits here in Japan who started murdering people who wouldn't convert. The entire religion was banned here in 1597 and Christianity was rightfully branded a national threat.

Going around telling people that they have an invisible friend who is going to save them is a lie and very harmful. Am I trying to destroy the world? Would I be wasting my time here trying to reason with you if I wasn't trying to save this world?

How many children have been sexually assaulted by Catholic priests in the last decade? If you love children, you will protest the Catholic Church and the entire hierarchy that enables pedophiles.

Christianity is a lie. Jesus is based on many Gods who came before him. The real Jesus was a Prince of Emesa (Homs), Syria. Just a man. Not God. A man who was beaten by Josephus who we also know as Saint Paul. Josephus created Christianity designed to keep us all submissive Roman tax paying slaves.

 

[Ren]

Can you show me where what I have posted is untrue?

Then you don't know what "libel" means.

Harte

Libel is when you continue to type that an author is a liar without proving it. You keep ranting about Ellis calling Jesus a drunk. Are you drunk?

I just looked up that quote from "King Jesus", Ralph's book. I have no idea what you are talking about here. Page 291. Google Books.

Listen Harte, I just read all your comments again in continuous threads and I have to wonder if you have some kind of disability.

For just once, I would like to debate someone about Christianity who is able to keep his mouth closed and stop drooling on his pot belly. But statistically that is improbable because critical thinking people don't have a problem with Azizus Monobaz being the historical Jesus.

 

[titorite]

Can you show me where what I have posted is untrue?

Then you don't know what "libel" means.

Harte

Libel is when you continue to type that an author is a liar without proving it. You keep ranting about Ellis calling Jesus a drunk. Are you drunk?

I just looked up that quote from "King Jesus", Ralph's book. I have no idea what you are talking about here. Page 291. Google Books.

Listen Harte, I just read all your comments again in continuous threads and I have to wonder if you have some kind of disability.

For just once, I would like to debate someone about Christianity who is able to keep his mouth closed and stop drooling on his pot belly. But statistically that is improbable because critical thinking people don't have a problem with Azizus Monobaz being the historical Jesus.

But Ren, you've confessed to being a pathological liar multiple times on multiple threads.

 

[PaulaJedi]

I'm going to order the book and make an effort to read it so I can participate in this conversation in an intelligent way.
Perhaps others should do the same. It's the same with Conviction of a Time Traveler. If you've done zero research, you have very few educated facts to work with when debating.

 

[PaulaJedi]

Ok. I get it Tuesday. It will take me a while - many distractions (as two kids tap my shoulder....)

 

[Harte]

Can you show me where what I have posted is untrue?
Then you don't know what "libel" means.
Harte

Libel is when you continue to type that an author is a liar without proving it. You keep ranting about Ellis calling Jesus a drunk. Are you drunk?
I just looked up that quote from "King Jesus", Ralph's book. I have no idea what you are talking about here. Page 291. Google Books.

A partial preview of one of his books is available on googlebooks: LINK.
Page 398, "Jesus, King of Edessa: The biblical Jesus discovered in the historical record," Ralph Ellis.
The page itself is not viewable (not part of the preview,) but the statements I quote turn up in a search of the text.

The search I mentioned above was for the word "image." So here's an image:http://paranormalis.com/attachments...3/?temp_hash=1c9423501b4758cf26ddf3ff9c6a1e3e
When I uploaded it, I didn't get the option to include it in the post, for whatever reason.

Anyway, my bad. The link was to Luke, not Ellis' book. A mixup.
Click here.
Note - PAGE 398

Listen Harte, I just read all your comments again in continuous threads and I have to wonder if you have some kind of disability.
For just once, I would like to debate someone about Christianity who is able to keep his mouth closed and stop drooling on his pot belly. But statistically that is improbable because critical thinking people don't have a problem with Azizus Monobaz being the historical Jesus.

The thread is not about Christianity, Ren. The thread is about a specific claim made by a man that has been shown to have lied about a very minor part of his thesis, rendering the rest of his thesis in question, as far as I'm concerned. This is beside the other point made in this thread, the questionable nature of writings we have recovered that may or may not have come from Josephus.

I won't argue religion with anyone. I find "crusades" such as your effort to convert all Christians to whatever else you have in mind to be egotistical proselytizing - evangelizing - just like Jimmy Swaggert only the other direction. I don't typically dwell amid such a sewer of self-interested bullcrap.

Note that neither point is apologetic to Christians. They are both simply critical of the claim made by Ralph Ellis.

Maybe you should start a thread like "God is dead" or "Jesus was mortal" or whatever, and see how many suckers you can draw in there.

Harte