Islam

[Unintentional]

Islam

I would not consider someone who is anti-zionist anti-semite. I seem to recall a recent poll where most American jews and anti-zionist.

 

[sosuemetoo]

Islam

We had been talking about Islamic insurgents in Iraq....they are from Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc. They are determined that democracy will not take hold. I read Phoenix's informative post on why it is that Democracy and Islam "do not mix"

I'd like to add another idea to the mix. I mentioned before that Iraq is not only a holy land for Islam. It is also a holy land for the Jews and Christians. I received an interesting e-mail from my mother which I'm posting.

Perhaps it is not democracy that Islam is fearful of in the middle east, but Islamists feel that Christians and Jews are taking back their holy land.

Islam, Judaism and Christianity all come from Abraham. Islam believes in the Old Testament up to that point. I felt I should note that as you read this e-mail.

IRAQ - VERY INTERESTING - DID YOU KNOW?

1. The garden of Eden was in Iraq.

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq.

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.

8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.

9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.

10. Amos cried out in Iraq!

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!

13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the fiery furnace!)

14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the \"writing on the wall\" in Iraq.

15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.

16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.

17. The wise men were from Iraq.

18. Peter preached in Iraq.

19. The \"Empire of Man\" described in Revelation is called Babylon,which was a city in Iraq!

And you have probably seen this one. Israel is the nation most often mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is second? It is Iraq! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible. The names used in the Bible are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia. The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more exactly between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The name Iraq, means country with deep roots.

Indeed Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant country in the Bible.

No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy associated it than Iraq.

And also... This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

 

[CaryP]

Islam

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.

Did you notice the 9:11? OBL said he would "die in the belly of the eagle" this year, referring to his death and martyrdom executing an attack against America. Thanks Sue.

Cary

 

[Phoenix]

Islam

Islam, Judaism and Christianity all come from Abraham. Islam believes in the Old Testament up to that point. I felt I should note that as you read this e-mail.

I am not clear what you are saying here.

 

[Unintentional]

Islam

Originally posted by Phoenix@Sep 8 2004, 11:07 AM

Islam, Judaism and Christianity all come from Abraham. Islam believes in the Old Testament up to that point. I felt I should note that as you read this e-mail.

I am not clear what you are saying here.

​

Abraham's first born was through a maid servant of his wife. His wife being Sarah and the maidservant's name, Hagar. Hagar's first born through Abraham was Ishmael. Sarah did eventually give birth to Abraham. She born Issac. Jews (and thus Christians) see themselves as descendants for Issac and Mulsims see themselves as descendants of Hagar. Although Ishmael was first born and thus entitled to twice as much inheiratence as any other son, in the Bible, God says he will fullfill his covenant through Issac.

 

[CaryP]

Islam

Anybody interested in learning more about the Middle East history and how it's all bubbled up into today's mess should read the long article at the following link. No, I'm not going to copy a long ass article that few will take the time to read. For those of you who do, hope it helps.

Cary

A Brief History of Israel and Palestine and the Conflict

 

[sosuemetoo]

Islam

Originally posted by Unintentional+Sep 8 2004, 01:15 PM--><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Phoenix@Sep 8 2004, 11:07 AM

Islam, Judaism and Christianity all come from Abraham. Islam believes in the Old Testament up to that point. I felt I should note that as you read this e-mail.

I am not clear what you are saying here.

​

Abraham's first born was through a maid servant of his wife. His wife being Sarah and the maidservant's name, Hagar. Hagar's first born through Abraham was Ishmael. Sarah did eventually give birth to Abraham. She born Issac. Jews (and thus Christians) see themselves as descendants for Issac and Mulsims see themselves as descendants of Hagar. Although Ishmael was first born and thus entitled to twice as much inheiratence as any other son, in the Bible, God says he will fullfill his covenant through Issac.

[snapback]8839[/snapback]​

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I thought I'd add to your explanation Uni.

Further, God sent away Hagar and Ishmael to another land and God gave them land separate from what he gave Isaac.

I wish there was a link somewhere to show exactly what lands were given to each of them. I will try and search for that tonight.

 

[Phoenix]

Islam

Originally posted by CaryP@Sep 8 2004, 01:22 PM
Anybody interested in learning more about the Middle East history and how it's all bubbled up into today's mess should read the long article at the following link. No, I'm not going to copy a long ass article that few will take the time to read. For those of you who do, hope it helps.

Cary

A Brief History of Israel and Palestine and the Conflict

​

Thanks Cary, that is a good read.

 

[CaryP]

Islam

Not all muslims are "bad guys" - an obvious statement. But an article today in the NY Times caught my attention and thought some of you would apprecite it.

Cary

Massacre Draws Self-Criticism in Muslim Press

Massacre Draws Self-Criticism in Muslim Press
By JOHN KIFNER

Published: September 9, 2004

BEIRUT, Lebanon, Sept. 8 - The brutal school siege in Russia, with hundreds of children dead and wounded, has touched off an unusual round of self-criticism and introspection in the Muslim and Arab world.

\"It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims,\" Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, the general manager of the widely watched satellite television station Al Arabiya said in one of the most striking of these commentaries.

Writing in the pan-Arab newspaper Al Sharq al Awsat, Mr. Rashed said it was \"shameful and degrading\" that not only were the Beslan hijackers Muslims, but so were the killers of Nepalese workers in Iraq; the attackers of residential towers in Riyadh and Khobar, Saudi Arabia; the women believed to have blown up two Russian airplanes last week; and Osama bin Laden himself.

\"The majority of those who manned the suicide bombings against buses, vehicles, schools, houses and buildings, all over the world, were Muslim,\" he wrote. \"What a pathetic record. What an abominable 'achievement.' Does this tell us anything about ourselves, our societies and our culture?\"

Mr. Rashed, like several other commentators, singled out Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a senior Egyptian cleric living in Qatar who broadcasts an influential program on Al Jazeera television and who has issued a fatwa, or religious ruling, calling for the killing of American and foreign \"occupiers\" in Iraq, military and civilian.

\"Let us contemplate the incident of this religious sheik allowing, nay even calling for, the murder of civilians,\" he wrote. \"How can we believe him when he tells us that Islam is the religion of mercy and peace while he is turning it into a religion of blood and slaughter?\"

Mr. Rashed recalled that in the past, leftists and nationalists in the Arab world were considered a \"menace\" for their adoption of violence, and the mosque was a haven of \"peace and reconciliation\" by contrast.

\"Then came the neo-Muslims,\" he said. \"An innocent and benevolent religion, whose verses prohibit the felling of trees in the absence of urgent necessity, that calls murder the most heinous of crimes, that says explicitly that if you kill one person you have killed humanity as a whole, has been turned into a global message of hate and a universal war cry.\"

A columnist for the Kuwaiti newspaper Al Siyassa, Faisal al-Qina'I, also took aim at Sheik Qaradawi. \"It is saddening,\" he wrote, \"to read and hear from those who are supposed to be Muslim clerics, like Yusuf al-Qaradawi and others of his kind, that instead of defending true Islam, they encourage these cruel actions and permit decapitation, hostage taking and murder.\"

In Jordan, a group of Muslim religious figures, meeting with the religious affairs minister, Ahmed Heleil, issued a statement on Wednesday saying the seizing of the school and subsequent massacre \"was dedicated to distorting the pure image of Islam.''

\"This terrorist act contradicts the principles of our true Muslim religion and its noble values,\" the statement said.

Writing in the Jordanian daily Ad Dustour, columnist Bater Wardam noted the propensity in the Arab world to \"place responsibility for the crimes of Arabic and Muslim terrorist organizations on the Mossad, the Zionists and the American intelligence, but we all know that this is not the case.''

\"They came from our midst,\" he wrote of those who had kidnapped and killed civilians in Iraq, blown up commuter trains in Spain, turned airliners into bombs and shot the children in Ossetia.

\"They are Arabs and Muslims who pray, fast, grow beards, demand the wearing of veils and call for the defense of Islamic causes,'' he said. \"Therefore we must all raise our voices, disown them and oppose all these crimes.\"

In Beirut, Rami G. Khouri editor of the Daily Star, wrote that while most Arabs \"identified strongly and willingly\" with armed Palestinian or Lebanese guerrillas fighting Israeli occupation, \"all of us today are dehumanized and brutalized by the images of Arabs kidnapping and beheading foreign hostages.\"

Calling for a global strategy to reduce terror, he traced what he called \"this ugly trek\" in the Arab world to \"the home-grown sense of indignity, humiliation, denial and degradation that has increasingly plagued many of our young men and women.\"

A Palestinian columnist, Hassan al-Batal, wrote in the official Palestinian Authority newspaper Al Ayyam that the \"day of horror in the school\" should be designated an international day for the condemnation of terrorism. \"There are no mitigating circumstances for the inhuman horror and the height of barbarism,\" he said of the school attack.

In Egypt, the semi-official newspaper Al Ahram called the events \"an ugly crime against humanity.\"

In Saudi Arabia, newspapers tightly controlled by the government - which finds itself under attack from Islamic fundamentalists - were even more scathing.

Under the headline \"Butchers in the Name of Allah,\" a columnist in the government daily Okaz, Khaled Hamed al-Suleiman, wrote that \"the propagandists of jihad succeeded in the span of a few years in distorting the image of Islam.''

\"They turned today's Islam into something having to do with decapitations, the slashing of throats, abducting innocent civilians and exploding people,'' he said. \"They have fixed the image of Muslims in the eyes of the world as barbarians and savages who are not good for anything except slaughtering people.\"

\"The time has come for Muslims to be the first to come out against those interested in abducting Islam in the same way they abducted innocent children,'' he added. \"This is the true jihad these days, and this is our obligation, as believing Muslims, toward our monotheistic religion.\"

 

[pauli]

Islam

Hey all, Sorry to not keep up on this. Unfortunately, my life is rather hectic at this moment. I will be coming back to post on it however. I thought in the meantime that we should keep the subject open because it would be easy to derail such a comprehensive topic into one or two issues, such as the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Here is an interesting overview of some of the issues at hand.

?

MUSLIM ON-GOING CONFLICTS IN THE WORLD
COMPILED BY MICHAELSAVAGE.COM


AFGHANISTAN: The war in Afghanistan is ongoing. Since Soviet troops withdrew, various Afghan groups have tried to eliminate their rivals. Although the Taliban strengthened their position in 1998 they have not achieved their final objective. Afghanistan harbours Osama bin Ladin, a wealthy Saudi Arabia dissident responsible for terrorist acts around the world. On 11 September 2001 members from bin Ladin's el Qaeda group highjacked 4 passenger jets in the USA, crashing one into the Pentagon and 2 into the World Trade Center, killing more than 2,000 citizens. The USA and its allies declared war on terrorism and counter-attacked, removing the Taliban from power. The war on terrorism and the el Qaeda continues.


ALGERIA:? Armed Islamic groups formed and since 1992 have carried out attacks on key economic points, security forces, officials and foreigners. In 1995 Algeria's first multiparty presidential elections were held and the incumbent president Liamine Zeroual won 60% of the votes in a poll with a 75% turnout. The first multiparty legislative elections were held in June 1997 which were won by the National Democratic Rally, which holds the majority of seats along with the FLN. Although the armed wing of the FIS declared a ceasefire in October 1997, an extremist splinter group, the Islamic Armed Group (GIA), continued attacks. There is also evidence that many attacks are carried out by militias backed by the Algerian security forces. After years of civil strife, Amnesty International estimates that around 80,000 people have died.

THE CAUCASUS AND RUSSIA: The Central Asian republics have a long history of conflicts. Fighting breaks out regularly between warlords and religious groups calling for the establishment of Islamic states outside the Russian Federation. Russia is trying to hold on to the federation because the Caucasus is a vital supply route for the oil riches of the Caspian and Black Sea. With the break-up of the Soviet Union various groups fought for control in the republics. Conflicts from one republic spills over to the other and they continually blame each other for attacks. Chechnya, still part of Russia, was flung in an almost full-scale war in 1994-96 and, after a disastrous campaign, Russia was forced to re-evaluate its involvement in the area. In August 1999 Russia stepped up security in the Caucasus region as rebels from within Dagestan - a small republic where more than 100 languages are spoken - went on the attack in support of Chechnyan Muslim groups who claim independence from Russia. In September 1999 Russia launched a ground invasion into the area to cut rebels off from Central Asian supply routes. By January 2000 Russia was once again involved in a full scale conflict in Chechnya. The Caucasus issue is complicated by the more than 50 different ethnic groups each insisting to proclaim their religious convictions on the area. The situation holds serious danger for neighbouring countries, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Russia itself.


EYGPT: Fundamentalist Muslim rebels seek to topple the secular Egyptian government. At least 1,200 people have perished since the beginning of the rebellion.? The conflict was primarily waged as an urban guerrilla/terrorist war.? The opposition Muslim Brotherhood took part in elections in 2000, indicating that they felt armed force would not work.


INDONESIA: The struggle on the Indonesia islands is complicated by leaders of pro- and anti-independence movements, and by religious conflicts. More than 500 churches have been burned down or damaged by Muslims over the past six years. Both the Christians and Muslims blame each other for the violence and attempts at reconciliation made little progress. After a bloody struggle East Timor gained independence in 1999. The hostilities on other islands continue to claim dozens of lives, to such an extent that the break-up of Indonesia seem imminent.


INDIA/PAKISTAN: Muslim separatists in the Indian section declared a holy war against the mostly-Hindu India and started attacks in 1989, mainly from Pakistan-occupied section of Kashmir, and from Pakistan and Afghanistan. The conflict continues, with Pakistan also crushing rebellions with brute force in their section.


IRAQ: Supports Islamic terrorist acts around the world. Differing culture and religious groups within Iraq continues to clash with Shiite Muslims.


ISRAEL:? Within its own borders, Israel continues to battle various Muslim organizations that seek independence for a Palestine state, areas made up of the Gaza strip, West.Bank, and part of Jerusalem. There is heavy international pressure on Israel to recognise a Palestinian state. The area of what today is Palestine was settled by Semitic tribes at a very early date. It was then called Canaan, and controlled by Canaanite tribes for more than 1,000 years. In about 1500 BC Hebrew, or Jewish, tribes began to enter the area. They later came into conflict with a people of Greek origin known as the Philistines. It is from them that the term Palestine is derived.


IRAN: After the Iranian Revolution in 1979 toppled the government of the Shah, the Mujahadeen Khalq soon began a bloody guerrilla war against the new Islamic government.? The Mujahadeen are currently based in Iraq and conduct cross-border raids into Iran, as well as conducting urban guerrilla operations in the cities and conducting political assassinations.? Iran occasionally launches raids against Khalq bases in Iraq.


KOSOVO: The ethnic Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in this Serbian province fought a guerilla war against Serbia to claim the region. Beginning in February 1999, Albanians were forced out of the province, prompting NATO to attack Serbia. By July 1999 Serb troops were forced out of Kosovo, only to open an avenue for Albanian Kosovars to attack Serb Kosovars. The Albanian Muslims have since burned down dozens of centuries-old Christian churches. In an effort to establish a Greater Albania, Albanian Muslim rebels also launched attacks in Macedonia.


NIGERIA: There are violent religious clashes in the city of Kaduna in northern Nigeria beginning February 21 2004 and have continued. Kaduna is the second largest city in the north. The clashes followed a march by tens of thousands of Christians to protest the proposal to introduce Muslim sharia law as the criminal code throughout Kaduna state. Reports speak of rival armed gangs of Christians and Muslims roving the streets. Churches and mosques have been put to the torch. Corpses were seen lying in the streets and people's bodies hanging out of cars and buses, apparently killed while attempting to flee the violence. Local human rights workers said that more than 400 had been killed as a result of the clashes.


SUDAN: The largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a succession of unstable civilian and military governments since it gained independence in 1956 from an Anglo-Egyptian condominium. The long-running conflict continues between the Arab Muslim northerners of Sudan, (the base of the government), and the African Christians of the south. In the mid-90s Sudan was home to Osama bin Ladin, the international terrorist responsible for the World Trade Center attack. It is estimated that more than 1,2 million people have been killed in the Sudan war, brining devastation to the Sudanese economy.


UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: At war with terrorism.


PHILIPPINES: The Phillipines armed forces, with assistance of US troops, are fighting Moslem rebels - they have been linked to Osama bin Laden's el Qaeda terrorist group - on the southern islands of the country. Muslim rebel groups seek autonomy/independence from the mostly Christian Philippines. One rebel group, the Abu Sayaf Group, is believed linked to Osama bin-Laden's Al-Qaida.? This connection, plus their tactic of kidnapping and beheading Americans, led the United States to send Special Forces to aid the Philippine Army.

I thought I would add this piece to the board because it shows the global nature of the issue.

I, G-d willing, will soon come back to address the other issues.

Wrong again, he did cover Chechnya. I separated them out so they can be read separately. [earlier I posted: Oh my, I just realized he missed Chechneya. I guess you will have to add that one to the list in your thoughts - because it looks like it is going to be shaping up into a conflict in the next weeks and months. ]