Debate John Titor: Real Time Traveler or a Hoaxer?

[Harte]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"LetThereBeLight!\")</div>

Well, I will point out that I am not debating \"for\" or \"against\" Titor. That little so-called \"black hole\" does have the mass (through gravity) of a small mountain. Afterall, gravity is formidable with getting out into Space. We have to get out of the pull of the Earth first, and that takes a lot of energy. Other people have pointed out that it may not take any more energy to move through Time, although the way that one moves through Time is thought now perhaps of the same way that moving through Space is thought of...[/b]

LTBL,
I haven't seen all the original posts that Titor made, nor do I think it is still possible to do so. But from what I've seen posted on this board concerning how his time machine worked, I have very little doubt that he was a hoax.

Cosider the fact that the quantum theory is almost 100 years old now, and we have barely begun to scratch the surface there. Hell, we could do very few experiments to verify QM's predictions until after around 1950. Titor is not from far enough in the future to have a time machine. The control of gravitational forces is far, far beyond us and even if a quantum theory of gravity were to be discovered today (we have only a candidate in Superstring or M Theory), the development of such technology would take at least another 50-75 years. There is also the point that the "microsingularities" used in Titor's device would have to be manufactured. (Hawking proved years ago that no such microsingularities can exist today, all would have "evaporated" by now). If these contain the mass of mountains, then all new and completely different technology would have to be developed in order to merely mount the mini black holes in his device.

So we need 3 new technologies, each completely revolutionary and unlike anything we are even trending toward today, just to build the device:
1) quantum gravitational theory and accompanying tech derived therefrom,
2) technology to compress the mass of, say, Mt. McKinley to a pinpoint,
3) revolutionary ways to transport and handle supermassive materials.

Not bloody likely.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"LetThereBeLight!\")</div>

I do have a book right here \"Time Travel in Einstein's Universe\" that does start off with time travel sci-fi stories, then says that time travel has to be self-consistent, and in one part, ends up, saying that 'mini black holes' would be like going over a 'speed bump' and you end up in a parallel universe.

(Below is from LetThereBeLight's book \"Time Travel in Einstein's Universe\" by J. Richard Gott)
...Second, the buildup of curvature occurs so quickly that the associated tidal foreces might not tear you apart; they simply wouldn't have time to move your heard and feet much while you passed through. This would be akin to going over a speed bump very fast in your car: you would get a big jolt, but you could survive. To know the exact details of the process, we need a theory of quantum gravity, which we have not yet discovered. [/b]

Man, your book is not talking about mini black holes here.

As far as I can tell from what I've read, Titor's time machine is sorely lacking in the ability to time travel, and couldn't have been even concieved, much less built, in the time frame involved. I don't care if every "prediction" he made came true, he is no time traveller.

Harte

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Yes, some of the links are dead now. On the Titor page here, at MadIce's website, the links have been updated that can be updated. First, the TTI forum (Time Travel Institute) where the first 2 threads were posted --- Parallel Universes --- Topic Limited to 11 Pages ---- type threads, were up with the old board, then the board changed names, then they went down, then Pamela asked if they could be added again within the new name's board, and they were, as much as they could be, again because the "Topic Limited to 11 pages" ended, and no more postings were shown. They were found, and added, but a glitch in the software usually is the main problem. As much as the original threads can be, all were copied at that time. MadIce went through, and changed them only to the extent of updated links and providing a slightely different format of the original threads. Oh, the other thread is "Time Travel Paradoxes" and it is corrupt, and I think MadIce includes the original date that the posts were made>>>>

At the bottom of this page, are the links to the reconstructed threads:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor

The only reconstruction, like I said, is updating links that can be updated, and a slightly different question to Titor, and Answers given by Titor there at MadIce's forum, so if the person reading it wants the answer given by Titor, you can click there to go to the answer.
At Art Bell's BBS forum, were I posted, the thread is the original, saved by various people who posted on that thread, whereas you will see, that Titor is behind the posting by several pages, taking breaks of a few days or a week while people are wondering where he is at, and when he will post again. But Titor posts which page he is answering according to the old pages of the Art Bell BBS forum, usually which are shorter than posting page length at forums are today. Anomalies pages are way longer, as it only takes 3 pages to post the entire thread -- "I am from 2036", which at the Art Bell BBS forum - Post to Post - took entirely for the thread -- 33 pages whereas Titor left, and said so, and the posting continued on -- to 61 pages there.

Original pictures were given as to the links to find those pictures.
Original pictures from original people here (and the first pictures given by Titor):
http://www.anomalies.net/time_travel/john.html
unless you think that right clicking and saving a picture changes it, and all the original people who held these pictures to look at again, means that all of us people changed them to all the same whatever pictures you think. (We did not change these pictures, because all people giving the pictures all have the same pictures.)
The original website that Titor posted the pictures on, can not be found in the web archive, as they have been looked for by other people, and it was not copied into the archive at that time, because again website change names, and the websites are gone!

But the origina pictures that were cleaned up, by the original posters asking for a better version of the pictures at the end or during the original discussion can be found of the Art Bell BBS forum site -- archived:
Original pictures shown but cleaned up by Titor:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010522234641/http://artbell.com/letters11.html
and these are the cleaned-up version of the pictures by none other than John Titor -- himself, and sent by e-mail to Art Bell in 2001, by the end of March or early April, before JT claimed that he was leaving this worldline!

First 5 pages of the Art Bell BBS Forum -- Post to Post in the Archive, but only the first 5 pages -- and the last page -- because the Art Bell BBS Forum ended in May of 2001, and the crawler did not archive the entire thread, and could not because like other websites that go down or change names, it was gone, and the web crawler program does not archive everything anyway.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010516223421/http://bbs.artbell.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20010603064617/bbs.artbell.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=25
Now for the "I am from 2036" thread at that time, and as it was back in 2001:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010413040119/bbs.artbell.com/showthread.php?threadid=1203

All threads at TTI forum, originally Xone.Net or whatever the links are in the thread of "I am from 2036" were updated at one time, still preserved by TTI after Pamela asked, were put back up, for a while, but some went by the wayside, and could not be restored. Try around page 35, if there is a page 35 there for threads. Or even page 40. I found them once, but since people start so many threads there, what was page 30 back a couple of years ago, probably is page 50 now, and probably is not there anymore.
All of those threads still can be found at Anomalies, but finding them is another thing, but they are all there nonetheless!

I don't think of looking for them, since MadIce website has those threads and they are much easier to find there, then looking through 32 pages of threads at Anomalies!!!
A thread about the thread "Time Travel Paradoxes" at the original place:
http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforu...=true#Post11227

Page 73 of the original forum: (Time travel discussion)
The original thread "Time Travel Paradoxes" here but only the first post:
http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforu...ed&sb=5&o=&vc=1

page 69 of the original forum:
The thread "Topic Limited to 11 Pages?" original thread:
http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforu...sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Nope that is about it there:
Now at Anomalies taken from the old Art Bell BBS forum and the threads (I just love looking through a 100 pages of thread topics!):

page 31 or 32 at Anomalies:
The original thread "I am from 2040" --- (Titor Nemesis!)
http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/b...ic;f=9;t=000032

page 28 at Anomalies::
The original thread saved from TTI of "Time-travel Paradoxes" (and as you can see the first post is the same post listed at the TTI link!)
http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/b...ic;f=9;t=000277

The original thread at Anomalies of "I am from 2036" (slightly edited and not really changed and I know, I still have it, and all the place mats of the original postings make it difficult to even work with, but a very few post were deleted that were not needed):
http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/b...ic;f=9;t=000024

The entire original thread can still be read from Anomalies on the John Picture Page there, and can be downloaded to read at home:
http://www.anomalies.net/time_travel/john.html ---- as it says there on that page!

That is about it for the person posting as John Titor and earlier as TimeTravel_0, except for the "chats" and one is listed at the Anomalies page of John the Time Traveller, as well as the Faxes posted to Art Bell, that one can find also at Anomalies. The rest of the original threads are a discussion about what John Titor said, and do not include his postings, so I did not list those threads.

The original format of Art Bell was not included, since those editing place mats (by the hundreds are in that thread) and had to be taken out, edited by the original Mary, since the board had posting rules, some of which people did not follow, so the posts were edited by the web administrator -- Mary and Ken at the Art Bell BBS forum back on the original thread.

But the words are the same, even if misspelled, at the original time the posts were made.

And really, you would not want the original format shown in the archive from the Art Bell BBS forum - Post to Post -- as they ended up looking in Microsoft's Office Word. (messy with hundreds of edited placemat pictures to take out!)

Thanks to Pamela and the original posters who saved the material, and to Anomalies and TTI for perserving those original threads, even though websites change names, and if a link is broken, then an archive of the website could not be found in the archive as posted by MadIce, who did look for them, and the others can still be found!

Afterall, a lot of people have read them, but it is also difficult to remember everything that was posted at the time --- like Raul said -- 422 posts -- but the thread is corrupted, but a saved copy of it at the time is given above!

Oh, by the way -- Search Engines do not really work all that well, at least for me!

 

[Keroscene]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Thank You , LTBL this is exactly what I was looking for. I couldn't help but notice this in your post "At Art Bell's BBS forum, were I posted, the thread is the original, saved by various people who posted on that thread, whereas you will see, that Titor is behind the posting by several pages, taking breaks of a few days or a week while people are wondering where he is at, and when he will post again." Did you post in the original post? What is your name in the original post?

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

The entire question of large or small black holes are not really the question, since all black holes are similiar. Even thinking as Dr. Stephen Giddings and the other one about the LHC providing the means of creating mini-black holes is quite a leap right there.

His article also came out in the N. Y. Times on Sept. 11, 2001, and is posted also at Anomalies.
No, essentially they are not talking about little black holes, not at least right now though!

Unfortunately, back at that time, I was rather busy, really behind on theories, so my name is not all that important, so I will not say who I am, but other people do know who I am. I just make sillly posts, so that is part of it! Can't learn computer programming, be thrust upon a discussion about time travel, where one person is claiming to be a time traveller and leave everything else go, back then!

Yes, I am there on that discussion and was at the Art Bell BBS forum! (but, my posts are rather out there!)

Look at it this way! If the postings would not have been put up, then anyone else except the original people would have been doing something else, right now, instead of posting about this so-called time traveller. There would be no JohnTitor.com, and none of the others, making movies or dance ballets out of this topic. The original people probably have gone back to doing what they were doing before all of these postings came up, and I know, that I have spent an entire amount of too much time on this subject.

Afterall, the more I find out, the more, there is no answer, only speculation about it all!

So what were any other people doing before finding out about all of this?

That may be assumed or taken as being a different parallel worldline, in a sense of the words thrown out by sci-fi or physicists nowadays!

Excuse me, that is Dr. Steve Giddings, who afterall was one who claimed that Dr. Hawkings should be honored at his 60th birthday, by beginning a new route for physics:
Creating black holes (that will evaporate very quickly anyway), as a new frontier in physics:

http://www.esi-topics.com/blackholes/inter...veGiddings.html

many web pages can be looked up about all of though!

 

[Roth Joint]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

The public systematically has been fed for years and years with information concerning Iraq developing nuclear weapons, which ultimately appeared to be just a lie (or BS) in order to prepare the public and make them more willing into accepting that war.

Titor was talking about the next Iraq war clearly mentioning it as the follow up on the previous Iraq war.

</span><span style=\'font-family:Times New Roman\'>Furthermore it?s interesting to note that Titor made a clear distinction between that war and the US civil war! Clearly he meant this next war taking place before the US civil war when everyone could still be united and whipped up into accepting that war??.

 

[virtualgirl]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Okay...apparently this is starting to freak me out. I had a nightmare last night that JT came into my room and took me to his time. I came back covered in filth, cut up, and completely bonkers. I was saying over and over, "What have we done". I am soooo glad my vacation starts tomorrow. Sounds like my brain might need a rest. LMAO!:lol:

Mudpuppy,

Where did you get the information that Haber went to <span style='font-family:Verdana'>Hofstra University? And what is this. Looks like a cheezy University to me. My BIL went to Harvard and Duke. I guess I'm not in touch with some of the smaller schools. Anyway, I was just curious. I've never heard this info before. So, if the \"friend\" was also a lawyer, why didn't he just represent the family himself? Also, I'm a sucker. I wanted to read all the post together so I broke down and bought the book last night. I'll have it sometime next week. I'll have to check the law books. I wonder if there is some way to force them to disclose at least the author of the book. Maybe with a freedom of information act or something? Any ideas?</span>

 

[Passive_Extremist]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(\"Roth Joint\")</div>

?
?

?
<span style=\'font-family:Times New Roman\'>I think the answer as to what John Titor meant to say is simple. He was talking about the ?things that were set in motion years ago,? meaning that the focus was on Iraq for a long time.[/b]

Personally I\'d interpret the 20 or 30 years ago thing as Bush taking over Reagan\'s theocratic agenda...

But I think a war in Iraq could\'ve been forseeable, considering the ape in power, hell even the WMD lie ( by a stretch) , but really what are the chances of someone figuring that out by coincidence? Anything happening in the world is arguably easy to predict in hindsight, but to align those things as to make a prediction ahead of time is amazing. I could look back and say the tsunami was predictable, but to announce it ahead of time defies odds in my book and I stand by what I\'ve already said, anyone to say that\'s coincidence is ignoring reason out of some luniacal attempt to debunk JT.




<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE(\\"Roth Joint\\")</div><div class=\'quotemain\'>
</span>The public systematically has been fed for years and years with information concerning Iraq developing nuclear weapons, which ultimately appeared to be just a lie (or BS) in order to prepare the public and make them more willing into accepting that war. ?
?
Titor was talking about the next Iraq war clearly mentioning it as the follow up on the previous Iraq war.
?
[/b][/quote]

Where was the public fed with information about Saddam developing WMD back in the 80s? We were friends then.

Here's my perception of one of JT's predictions coming true..

Can't find JT's prediction, but the one where he says

"don't put your faith in anything claimed by one individual and you'll realize that in 2005"


www.thedowningstreetmemo.com


C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

 

[Keroscene]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

"Can't learn computer programming, be thrust upon a discussion about time travel, where one person is claiming to be a time traveller and leave everything else go, back then!" Sometimes I can't tell what you're talking about. What is it you have to hide? Of course besides your name.

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

Nothing to hide, just stating a simple fact. That fact is I really do not have time to discuss this topic that much anymore, as I still have work to do. That really is where I am going -- back to what I should be doing. Except for the thread "Parallel Universe" I did not find, but MadIce's website has that also, I think.

As for anything else, I don't consider my posts all that relevant to the topic at that time, that all the threads were made, because I was not even up on any of the science.

As of now, all the pros and cons of any debate, can be either way, and I simply do not have an opinion at this time to comment one way or another about JTitor.

You can also read about science here:

http://arxiv.org/

and I rather be learning computer programming at this time, then talking about what physics thinks or does not think. That is all opinion also!

I gave links a few pages back on where the physics is, and the theory, although there are different theories about physics right now.

That is all I can do, unless I want to go homeless, and I do not want to. Plus like anyone else, I have my own things to do, so I admit that I can not form an opinion at this time.

>>By the way in that book, I mentioned by J. Richard Gott, he was also talking about small black holes also, but in the sense like they are doing today --- looking for those primodial really small black holes with a cosmic-ray detector.

And gravity is being worked on, with experiment and with theory also.

So, after reading, that link above, some papers do relate to Titor and what he said.
And Titor said it all when he stated something similiar to "I suppose the hard part is imagining that we have taken advantage of it!" posted on the "I am from 2036" thread, which means according to him, they (the future) have taken advantage of the "singularity" that according to him was held, cleaned, electrified and magnetised -- in the future!

Afterall, it is extreme physics, and many supporting systems and technology also have to be developed! And Dr. Brown has discussed this to some length with his reply, also have other physicists!

Simply like taking computer courses in programming, I have spent an enormous amount of time on this subject, and I like to get back to what I should be doing, despite this world or worldline!

And here is another thread from physics papers in the Past. One can download Adobe Acroread, a free version, to read any of the PDF documents at the physics place. Besides to many to actually list, these papers are written by phsycists the world over.

http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/b...ic;f=9;t=000275

And I have spent some time in reading some of these. These papers still will not prove Titor, or anything else, but a Naked Singularity because of null geodesics does look like a rain-bow of colors at first, according to the theory from one such physicist.

That thread contains those papers!
And everything at NewScientist.com has changed also, since people are actually out to make money, so reading about it all, one has to subscribe whereas in the past, all this easy-reading quantum physics was free to read about.

But websites can be found, and even MadIce has found some which I did not find or see.
There are billions of pages on this Internet!



Also here is the thread "Parallel Universe" at the only place I can find it -- MadIce's website:

http://timetravelportal.com/viewtopic.php?t=550

By the way, I am just a poster, like anyone else, and I have nothing to do with any forum board or anything else, but just being a poster. After spending 5 years going with computer courses, and 4 years just reading this stuff, I am rather letting it go for awhile, as I rather be either playing a computer game, trying to learn more programming for some reason, and just plain --- have nothing else to talk about either which way about JTitor. The links I gave, and all of that in my posts, brings anyone else up to date about all of it, and the rest is guessing, or discussion, or perhaps, even fear.

This worldline may even be changed now, but then, time travel would be such a significant event, that I think if the multiverse did exist, there are just some events that will take place -- despite anything else. There would be much to do if such events like another WW did take place.

Survival links ususally can be found also on the Internet, so that is no problem either.
But it is summer, and I think I deserve at least a -- beer!

G'day!

The original thread "Parallel Universe" I could not find earlier today, but the link at MadIce's website is still good:

http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforu...o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Funny how you can look through pages and pages of topic threads, and not find the ones you want to!

Now for the big 16oz can!

 

[demonhunter6662005]

Re: John Titor Update: Exclusive Report!

There is one thing that i would like to say. Why not just let people believe this it could get someone to be more active in their own life. Someone needs to motivate the american people to the actions of the government before they take all freedom away from us. It is being ripped away so neatly that no one suspects it but they complain about it. they need to do so much more!!!!...